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01-14-2010, 09:16 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by nuts43 Quote
Muse:

Digital photography seems to have taken the fun out of the process..................................we have sold our souls to the digital false gods. We are no longer masters of our domain.
Last I heard:

1. Film cameras and film both still exist
2. Photography is an individual hobby and you nobody is forcing you to use digital if you don't want to; "we" does not apply.





01-14-2010, 09:17 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by PNTXFTW12 Quote
oh, it's THIS thread again.
Well really, there are only a half dozen threads. They just move around a lot.
01-14-2010, 09:19 AM   #48
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lol so true. i only really post in 2... "which lens is fast enough" and the "pttl isn't working" ones.
01-14-2010, 11:09 AM   #49
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I have no problem with someone wanting to shoot film. The odd thing to me is the supposition in the OP that digital completely kills creativity. It is like someone attacking computers or word processors, because they kill the creativity that is brought by pencil and paper. All of these things are tools, nothing more or less and if one works for you, use it, but I respectfully disagree with the OP. For me, I have much better understanding of photography and what works because of digital.

01-14-2010, 11:26 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I have no problem with someone wanting to shoot film. The odd thing to me is the supposition in the OP that digital completely kills creativity. It is like someone attacking computers or word processors, because they kill the creativity that is brought by pencil and paper. All of these things are tools, nothing more or less and if one works for you, use it, but I respectfully disagree with the OP. For me, I have much better understanding of photography and what works because of digital.
Good for you, and you've voiced your opinion without calling the guy a hide wearing cave dwelling Neanderthal.
(Not that I am above doing just that).
01-14-2010, 11:29 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I think I'm going to slash my wrists now.
Can you youtube that Wheatfield?
01-14-2010, 02:29 PM   #52
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Personally, I love digital imaging. I'm 50 years old, grew up with film, like it and still use it some, had a few darkrooms back in the day, but I really REALLY LOVE the creative opportunities of digital. What I DON'T love is most of todays digital cameras. They are way to complex and do often get in the way of my creativity. Unfortunately, the cameras with the highest image quality are also loaded with buttons and menus, and are basically small handheld imaging computers. Not what I'd ideally like to be making pictures with. There appears to be only one thing on the market right now that solves the dilemma - the Leica M9. I'm not a "Leica guy", never desired one or considered owning one before. But with the M9 they really nailed the high IQ with a simple camera thing. I can only hope another company will come out with something similar that I can afford.

So, as far as the original poster's supposition that "Digital" is the problem, I disagree. Digital imaging is a WONDERFUL and extraordinarily creative thing. But todays digital cameras are mostly, IMHO, an overly complex mess. I still use them, and as of yesterday am the new owner of a K7, but what I really long for is an ultra simple ultra high IQ camera. Somebody'll build one (that I can afford) someday I hope.

And as far as "digital" creating a bunch of lazy photographers turning out tons of junk, well I disagree with that too. There were just as many lazy bad photographers back in the film days. The only difference is the internet - now it's "out there" for everyone to see...
01-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #53
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those ultra high IQ cameras with simple controls tend to start at $20k

01-14-2010, 03:15 PM   #54
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Digital Mayhem

Photography has been around for 150 years or so. The digital variety is still pretty new - past its infancy - maybe adolescent - certainly not mature. I suppose there were grumbles that moving from glass plates to film was a retrograde step. Using film was a more leisurely process and the cost of film and processing made us think before pressing the shutter release rather than firing off multiple bracketed shots hoping that at least one or two would be worth keeping.

The best film cameras were beautiful works of engineering and did not become obsolescent in a few years. I had a Leica which I bought second hand, used for twenty five years then sold at a handsome profit which enabled me to launch into the digital age five years ago. I am now on my third digital camera, a K-7, and I love it. I know that I will not sell it at a profit in future but it is such fun now. I can experiment with different lenses, lighting, close-ups, macros, flash etc without worrying about the cost of each shot and post processing is so much easier on the computer than fiddling about in an improvised home darkroom. Also seeing the results staight away makes learning from mistakes much easier.

I enjoyed photography in my youth but now I get more out of it thanks to digital technology. I do not think age has much to do with it - apart from the advantage of being retired which means that I have so much more time to pursue my hobbies and interests.

Archie
01-14-2010, 03:44 PM   #55
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What's comples though? It's only complex if you make it complex. Just put the thing in Av mode, choose your metering preference, lock the AF to centre point only and crash bang wallop ... off you go.

How do the external buttons 'get in the way'? The very fact you can change ISO on the fly shouldn't really confuse anyone of even below average intelligence.
01-14-2010, 03:58 PM   #56
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Frankly Film photography feels very restrictive and stressful for me. I can't help but thinking every single time i click the shutter on a film camera "Thats 25 cents, it better turn out."

I really like photography but digital makes it economically feasible for me. I don't think that I would experiment so much with my photography if I was shooting film. As a college student, I simply can't afford mess shots up with film. I am never relaxed when I shoot film. I am always on edge.

With digital I can relax which allows me to concentrate on getting the shot and trying new things.
01-14-2010, 05:18 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
What's comples though? It's only complex if you make it complex. Just put the thing in Av mode, choose your metering preference, lock the AF to centre point only and crash bang wallop ... off you go.

How do the external buttons 'get in the way'? The very fact you can change ISO on the fly shouldn't really confuse anyone of even below average intelligence.
Well, I'm admittedly new to the K7, so I might not have figured out all the shortcuts yet, but here's two examples. I'm often after ultimate image quality on a tripod, so take mirror lock-up for example - three button pushes in the Drive Mode menu, instead of a simple mechanical lever to flip. And then another couple of button pushes to turn it off. Or how about the self timer. Three button pushes to turn it on, and another three to turn it off before the next shot (if you remember). And can you even use both mirror lock-up and self timer together if you don't have your fancy electronic "cable release' with you? I don't think so, because they're on the same line of the same menu, but I could be wrong.

Obviously neither of those things are "big deals" on their own, but there's no question both of those actions are more complex than the old way of doing the exact same thing. And most importantly, all those little things add up. To accomplish the same photo taking senario with a modern DSLR takes many more actions (knob turning and button pushes) than it did on a mechanical SLR in the "old days". That's progress? Not in my humble opinion.

At least on the K7 there's a "user" setting so I can set up everything for one picture taking scenario; but only one unfortunately. It'd help if there were 2 or 3 "user' settings. But that really doesn't get at the root of the problem - to get a camera with a high image quality sensor, you're saddled with a computerized menu based way of operating whether you want it or not.

I hope I don't sound like I'm whining about all this - I've been using DSLR's for 7 or 8 years now and generaly enjoy the experience. But they do slow me down compared to an "old fashioned" camera, and that's not good for the creative flow. I just wish the two worlds could be combined, a simpler more intuitive camera with highest quality imaging, and the M9 proves that it's doable. If another company comes out with something similar (preferably in SLR form) at a real world price, I bet they'd sell a ton of them to us "Neanderthals"...
01-14-2010, 06:04 PM   #58
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These new organic based image synthesisers have really taken the fun out of digital...
01-14-2010, 06:06 PM   #59
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Photography? Yes please... Film? Yup. Digital? Sure thing!

All that aside... this has gone on for four pages... stop, go back and check the OP's post count.

Still 1.

Ya think this post is a troll?

woof! [fishy smelling in here] woof!
01-14-2010, 07:23 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by slinco Quote
Well, I'm admittedly new to the K7, so I might not have figured out all the shortcuts yet, but here's two examples. I'm often after ultimate image quality on a tripod, so take mirror lock-up for example - three button pushes in the Drive Mode menu, instead of a simple mechanical lever to flip. And then another couple of button pushes to turn it off.
OK, but you're talking specific details about specific camera, not anything about film versus digital. There are film cameras in which MLU is harder still - or even impossible - and digital cameras where it is easier.

QuoteQuote:
Or how about the self timer.
Ditto.

In any case, both of these applications are ones where it's hardly speed critical.

QuoteQuote:
can you even use both mirror lock-up and self timer together if you don't have your fancy electronic "cable release' with you?
Yes, the self-timer automatically does a mirror lock up.

QuoteQuote:
To accomplish the same photo taking senario with a modern DSLR takes many more actions (knob turning and button pushes) than it did on a mechanical SLR in the "old days". That's progress? Not in my humble opinion.
OK, now tell me how more fewer button pushes it takes to change the ISO on a mechanical SLR (on a K-7: 1). Or, after changing shutter speed from 1/10" to 1/250", how many fewer button pushes it takes to set a corresponding aperture (on K-7: 0 or 1, depending on what mode you are in).

Now, tell me which you do more often: change aperture, shutter speed, and ISO, or set the self-timer.
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