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01-17-2010, 12:51 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
No kidding. "Film cameras don't intrude on the creative process" -- right. If you want a certain shot that requires ISO 1600 and you have 100 loaded, then you either have to fuss with swapping film mid roll or settling for what you can get out of what you have. That introduces creativity no more than a Holga does, by forcing you to deal with the limitations imposed upon you. But if you have a clear vision of the final product, then it's just a hindrance and nothing else.
Isn't this just what this whole thing is all about...making do and capturing the best image with what you have in hand?
I'm still trying to get the best images right out of my camera using Jpeg and will continue to do so (unless I have a once in a lifetime image staring me in my face) until the day I die.
Like I have read so many times before....."If you don't shoot RAW than just get a P&S because it's just a waist of your time"...........HA! HA!

01-17-2010, 03:38 AM   #92
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While it is true that the value of digital gear drops dramatically even per year, i do recall old takumurs costing almost a grand. Now compare that to the $50-60.
Almost everything gets cheaper as time goes on so unless its mobile phones your talking about (new models almost coming out every 2-3 months actually frustrates me) then i dont think you should complain too much
01-17-2010, 07:33 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raybo Quote
Isn't this just what this whole thing is all about...making do and capturing the best image with what you have in hand?
I'm still trying to get the best images right out of my camera using Jpeg and will continue to do so (unless I have a once in a lifetime image staring me in my face) until the day I die.
Like I have read so many times before....."If you don't shoot RAW than just get a P&S because it's just a waist of your time"...........HA! HA!
The whole thing is about imposing limitations upon yourself by using less capable gear?

Me, I'd rather use a tool that lets me achieve what I have in mind.

(That said, sometimes it can be fun to break out the Holga or something similar and goof off... but it's not something I'd want to use for normal shooting!)
01-17-2010, 09:24 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Old Timer 56 Quote
Pencil and paper? Quill pen is the only way to go, preferably made from a turkey feather.

Reminds me of writers who insist they use a typewriter rather than a computer because it makes them more "creative".

Richard
QuoteOriginally posted by WerTicus Quote
Id say most people here with issues are old dogs who cant learn new tricks.
QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
My wife writes novels - for a living - with a Pilot pen on yellow legal pads. Double-spaced. She feels the slower speed of hand-writing allows her brain time to develop her characters as she writes. She pays a transcriptionist to key her writing into a word processor and edits from there. Only because her publisher no longer accepts hand-written manuscripts.
QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Why shouldn't it make them more creative? Everyone is different, I can imagine the sounds that a typewriter makes being beneficial (or relaxing) to a writer.
There are as many aspects to this hobby as there are particpants in the hobby.

Professionals may rightly think of cameras and lenses as merely tools, and may strive for the most productive path to thier desired result.

Others of us (primarily hobbyists) may seek the most satisfying experience. That may be film, perhaps DSLR using manual settings or maybe Green Mode.

None of this warrants disparaging responses.


Last edited by monochrome; 01-17-2010 at 12:19 PM.
01-17-2010, 11:53 AM - 7 Likes   #95
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Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!

Step 1: Acquire a single e-dial camera. A K-x will do nicely.

Step 2: Write down the correct sequence of button presses to change to a certain ISO on a piece of paper, so that you can do it blind. Write down 100, 400, 800, and 1600 only.

Step 3: Make sure that use aperture ring is enabled in the menus (you may want to write this down too, just in case), set your white balance to daylight, place the camera in RAW, and pick your favorite ISO.

Step 4: Break your rear LCD with a hammer.

Step 5: Put your camera into M and then superglue down the mode selection dial. Adorn the mode dial with either the top of a winder, or a faceplate showing shutter speeds.

Step 6: Place your AF/MF slider in the MF position and then superglue it down.

Step 7: Epoxy over the exposure comp, green, play, LV, and AF/AE-L buttons. You won't be needing these.

Step 8: Buy a whole bunch of A or FA glass.

Step 9: Throw away any of those fancy 1GB + SD cards you may have, and instead buy a handful of 32MB capacity cards. Bring only one or two extras with you when you decide to go shooting.

Step 10: Upon completion of a "roll," mail your card off to a stranger along with five bucks. Make sure the stranger batch-processes your RAW files with auto exposure settings, and sends you back a CD with poorly encoded JPGs. Make sure he also keeps the SD card.

And there you have it! The complete film experience for the digital age. Ah, I can feel the nostalgia coming already.
01-17-2010, 12:23 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kirivon Quote
Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!

<snip>

And there you have it! The complete film experience for the digital age. Ah, I can feel the nostalgia coming already.
Bravo!! You, sir, win the thread.
01-17-2010, 12:48 PM   #97
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What I like about my DSLR is one word: flexibility

I can configure it to function the way I think is best for the situation and the way I want to shoot at that moment.

When I want to just shoot a lot of candid shots quickly, I would configure it to behave like a Point and Shoot Camera (AF, P mode, Martrix metering). And I would just shoot quickly and let the camera do most of the "thinking". Sure I might have to delete half the shots because they don't meet my standard. Most of the time, it is just bad composition. But that's OK - it does not cost me anything. And the other half would turn out just the way I like it (real candid shots). My attitude here is no lost, no gain.

When I want to be real creative and want to slow down and think about what I am doing. I would put the camera in Manual exposure mode, Manual focus (probably install an old manual focus prime lens on the camera too), and spot metering. Now I am really in control. The camera will only do what I tell it to do. If the shot turns out bad then I am the only one to blame for it. The advantage here is that I get instant feedback whether I have screwed up or not. And I can try something different to get it right and learn from the experience right there.

For me, Digital has really shortened my learning curve to photography - especially flash photography. And all these free resources I can find on the Internet helps a lot as well. Ironically, I think I am actually a better film shooter now because of digital.

When I want to be even more creative, I would do post-processing and here the possibility is almost limitless as far as creativity goes.

Maybe for some people, they do not like the flexibility. Flexibility does come with the cost of more complexity (i.e. reading the whole freaking camera manual is mandatory). If that's case, then keep using your beloved film camera and/or get a simple digital Point and Shoot camera. But don't say that you can not be creative with digital.

Last edited by ma318; 01-17-2010 at 01:50 PM.
01-17-2010, 02:08 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Professionals may rightly think of cameras and lenses as merely tools, and may strive for the most productive path to thier desired result.

Others of us (primarily hobbyists) may seek the most satisfying experience. That may be film, perhaps DSLR using manual settings or maybe Green Mode.
This in essence summarises the desired motives of each group nicely...
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirivon Quote
Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!

the cynical 7 steps...

And there you have it! The complete film experience for the digital age. Ah, I can feel the nostalgia coming already.
...and this shoots that summary in the foot in brutal satire.

01-18-2010, 01:31 PM   #99
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10/10

end thread

can we lock this now, LOL.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kirivon Quote
Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!

Step 1: Acquire a single e-dial camera. A K-x will do nicely.

Step 2: Write down the correct sequence of button presses to change to a certain ISO on a piece of paper, so that you can do it blind. Write down 100, 400, 800, and 1600 only.

Step 3: Make sure that use aperture ring is enabled in the menus (you may want to write this down too, just in case), set your white balance to daylight, place the camera in RAW, and pick your favorite ISO.

Step 4: Break your rear LCD with a hammer.

Step 5: Put your camera into M and then superglue down the mode selection dial. Adorn the mode dial with either the top of a winder, or a faceplate showing shutter speeds.

Step 6: Place your AF/MF slider in the MF position and then superglue it down.

Step 7: Epoxy over the exposure comp, green, play, LV, and AF/AE-L buttons. You won't be needing these.

Step 8: Buy a whole bunch of A or FA glass.

Step 9: Throw away any of those fancy 1GB + SD cards you may have, and instead buy a handful of 32MB capacity cards. Bring only one or two extras with you when you decide to go shooting.

Step 10: Upon completion of a "roll," mail your card off to a stranger along with five bucks. Make sure the stranger batch-processes your RAW files with auto exposure settings, and sends you back a CD with poorly encoded JPGs. Make sure he also keeps the SD card.

And there you have it! The complete film experience for the digital age. Ah, I can feel the nostalgia coming already.
01-22-2010, 11:53 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kirivon Quote
Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!

.....
Point well made, however I think there are legitimate reasons to move back to film, but probably not for the "creativity" reason. For me I kept a Minolta film system and use it once in a while. It won't become my primary system, but despite the "complicated" and "expensive" process of getting film, loading rolls, printing and process, etc, there is a sense of simplicity in it.

Last edited by shawnxji; 01-22-2010 at 12:00 PM.
01-25-2010, 10:13 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kirivon Quote
Alright, for all you who feel digital has killed your creative process, I have thought up a solution!...
I'm curious, exactly how much film shooting have you done? I only ask because while somewhat technically correct, your post wreaks of inexperience with film. And no, Kodak Gold 200 in a plastic lens point and shoot doesn't count.
01-26-2010, 09:15 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
I'm curious, exactly how much film shooting have you done? I only ask because while somewhat technically correct, your post wreaks of inexperience with film. And no, Kodak Gold 200 in a plastic lens point and shoot doesn't count.
okay, okay

lets ADD the needed space for a dark room, chemicals, and the ridiculously long time it all needs to produce an actual photograph.

unless you are doing it yourself, you will be hard pressed to find a lab that does it for you

and the worst part is, THE CONSUMERS CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE

so who exactly are you breaking your back for?

its a novelty, nothing more (and yes, i have shot film, and yes, i have developed rolls (albiet a long time ago), and yes, i have developed prints in the dark)
01-26-2010, 12:07 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
okay, okay

lets ADD the needed space for a dark room, chemicals, and the ridiculously long time it all needs to produce an actual photograph.

unless you are doing it yourself, you will be hard pressed to find a lab that does it for you

and the worst part is, THE CONSUMERS CANT TELL THE DIFFERENCE

so who exactly are you breaking your back for?

its a novelty, nothing more (and yes, i have shot film, and yes, i have developed rolls (albiet a long time ago), and yes, i have developed prints in the dark)
If the artist is the primary consumer (which they should be, otherwise it's product, not art), then they obviously can. Maybe he's "breaking his back" for himself.
01-26-2010, 12:16 PM - 1 Like   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
If the artist is the primary consumer (which they should be, otherwise it's product, not art), then they obviously can. Maybe he's "breaking his back" for himself.
A lot of times, artists come up with reasons to do their art, reasons often times lacking any sane rationality or purpose. Then some other, eccentric character stumbles on this "vortex of creativity" and spreads the word to the world of unsuspecting consumers of novelty and randomness.. and our world is full of them.

Then you get gallery showings and dinner parties, where women wear one-time outfits made specifically to torture the human body, and men smoke cigars while consuming copious amounts of wine or fancy vodka mix drinks.

Only its all a sham, one crazy persons lust for recognition turning into a fad.. and everyone wants to hop on a band wagon..

Digital is not Mayhem.

Digital is the future.

Film is a novelty, which is not a bad thing, but it is definitely not for everyone... like drive-by-cable cars without ABS, some would call me a fool for driving them, and perhaps i am, but i have no right to hack the forthcoming technology, it will only make the world better.

If the artist (singular) is the consumer, then there should be no argument, let him or her do whatever they wish in the confines of their heads.. but they should not appear before us with judgments of lacking creativity and skill. You can get a tree down by chewing on the wood for weeks on end.. you are in no way a better lumberjack than someone with a 20000 RPM chainsaw, even if it was "creative".

Last edited by Gooshin; 01-26-2010 at 12:29 PM.
01-26-2010, 12:41 PM   #105
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I guess it depends on what you're after.

You can paint a house red by spraying it with some cheap paint, or by making paper cuts in your wang and humping it every day for ten years straight.

If all you wanted was a red house, obviously the latter method didn't add any value to the process.

If what you wanted was to create some embodiment of human suffering, then sure.

Usually when shooting I am after a particular resulting print and will work with the tools that are best suited for attaining it. Normally that's digital. Film is still fun, but I don't see it adding any real value to the process unless part of the purpose of the print is so you can tell people you shot it on film... in which case the content of the picture itself is no longer the real subject.
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