I'd like to get A K10D but...

wlachan · 06-26-2007, 04:31 AM

I think buying the camera is only 1/3 of your concern (or any beginners). 1/3 of effort should be invested in basic photography, and the last 1/3 on postprocessing. With the last 2/3 done, you will do fine with any DSLRs. Even the most expensive cameras & lenses can produce crappy shots (technically) if the users had no idea what they were doing.

PDL · 06-26-2007, 08:02 AM

sto bjsmith

Please please - ignore all the K10D user reports stating that JPEG's do not have a problem. Continue to fall in line behind the agenda driven reviewers like a sheep after all real users don't know as much as a "reviewer".

Oh - the K100D was reviewed by dpr after the K10D - and we beat up uncle phil pretty bad about that review. So what did he do? He changed his review method - lo and behold - JPEG's are "better". Go figure.

Please do not buy a K10D --- you will be so disappointed to find out the reviewers are wrong.

PDL

bjsmith · 06-26-2007, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by PDL

sto bjsmith
Please please - ignore all the K10D user reports stating that JPEG's do not have a problem. Continue to fall in line behind the agenda driven reviewers like a sheep after all real users don't know as much as a "reviewer".
Oh - the K100D was reviewed by dpr after the K10D - and we beat up uncle phil pretty bad about that review. So what did he do? He changed his review method - lo and behold - JPEG's are "better". Go figure.
Please do not buy a K10D --- you will be so disappointed to find out the reviewers are wrong.
PDL

Fair enough.

property#1 · 07-09-2007, 03:59 AM

I would like to ask a question which I know has been asked more than once but have to ask for myself. I have an istDL and a K100D and am now considering moving to a K10D and would like to hear why I should or should not move up to the K10D.
Most of my photos are outside in natural light, flowers animals and a few landscapes from time to time. The lenses I use are Sigma 50 F2.8 Macro, Sigma 24-135 F2.8 and Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

WMBP · 07-09-2007, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by property#1

I have an istDL and a K100D and am now considering moving to a K10D and would like to hear why I should or should not move up to the K10D.
Most of my photos are outside in natural light, flowers animals and a few landscapes from time to time. The lenses I use are Sigma 50 F2.8 Macro, Sigma 24-135 F2.8 and Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

Since I'm not a salesman for Pentax, I don't feel any obligation to sell you a K10D whether you need it or not. You've got two good cameras already. So, what about the K10D attracts you?

Here are a few of the K10D's differences from the K100D:

Better ergonomics, meaning that more of the controls are on the outside and most tasks are easier to accomplish. Having two e-dials (one in front, one in back) is great.
Better continuous shooting
Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!)
Supports battery grip (but uses proprietary battery, which seems like an advantage to some but not to others)
Supposedly superior processor
Weather sealing
More megapixels
Ability to save raw files as DNG as well as PEF
More bracketing options
Supports the new Pentax lenses

I've organized them more or less in the order of their importance to me now. What's on there that you can't live without?

Will

bjsmith · 07-09-2007, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by WMBP

[*]Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!)

I'll re-iterate, as K100D user, that I don't bother with the "scene modes" at all.
So I consider it a non-consideration with regards to the K10D, despite various reviews marking off for the lack of them on the K10D.
If I want "scene modes," I'll use a Point'n Shoot (although they suck on them as well).

WMBP · 07-09-2007, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by bjsmith

I'll re-iterate, as K100D user, that I don't bother with the "scene modes" at all. So I consider it a non-consideration with regards to the K10D, despite various reviews marking off for the lack of them on the K10D.

Should have been clear from my list that, in my view at least, the lack of scene modes is a PLUS for the K10D. I said, "no scene modes (yay!)." Now it's true that you can ignore the 50% of the mode dial on the K100D that's taken up with the scene modes. I personally prefer not to have to look at features that I paid for but really dislike, but you can ignore them, and the presence of the scene modes doesn't make the K100D a worse camera.

But I didn't list the lack of scene modes in itself as a major plus of the K10D. My item said: "Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!)." Of the changes on the mode dial, the lack of scene modes is the least important. Nobody would buy a K10D just to get rid of the little scene mode icons on the dial. But the K10D's mode dial generally is a plus for the model. I'm fond of USER mode, like the difference in P mode, love TAv mode, etc.

Anyway, not to get sidetracked on this silly issue, I'm still hoping to hear from the OP what items on my list of K10D differences he (she?) thinks are compelling.

Will

bjsmith · 07-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Originally posted by WMBP

Should have been clear from my list that, in my view at least, the lack of scene modes is a PLUS for the K10D.

I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them.
There's nothing more insignificant that the "scene modes" which too many reviews take points off of the K10D for not having.
And people looking between the K100D and K10D shouldn't give them another thought, there is no advantage to the K100D on that in my book.
I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet.

property#1 · 07-09-2007, 09:31 AM

First I would like to say thank-you to WMBP and bjsmith for the reply. To answer your question WMBP I think the 10 megapixels, weather seal and anti dust are some of the features that interest me. I find with the K100D there always seems to be a dust spot on the shot. I have also heard and read that the anti shake in the K10D is better than the K100D and as I have minor tremors in my left arm, (health related) I thought maybe I might get away without the tripod more often. Regarding the scene features on the K100D I have never used them and most likely never will. I shoot aperture priority or full manual almost all the time.

I guess I asked my question in hopes of justifying the purchase of the K10D and selling the K100D.

Thanks for your opinions and help.

WMBP · 07-09-2007, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by bjsmith

I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them....I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet.

Ah, a bit of standard list confusion. I think we're in agreement, then, and I too will try to keep quiet. Although I'm not very good at it. :-)

Will

RoxnDox · 07-09-2007, 10:15 AM

Originally posted by bjsmith

I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them.
There's nothing more insignificant that the "scene modes" which too many reviews take points off of the K10D for not having.
And people looking between the K100D and K10D shouldn't give them another thought, there is no advantage to the K100D on that in my book.
I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet.

There can be some use for them, though. I have found the scene settings handy on one particular occasion, when I wanted to capture a sunrise on my way to work and it was right about zero (F, not C) with a good stiff wind blowing. Since I had only had the camera a short time, and it would have taken a fair amount of fiddling around to match the ambient lighting, I was happy to have a button to pick the right settings for me. Saved me from a much longer stand in the snow...

The resulting pic may not be the best sunrise ever captured, but it turned out pretty nicely. I sure wouldn't base a camera purchase on the presence or absence of a 'scenes' function, but they do sometimes have a useful place in the toolkit.

Jim

Kingsofronin · 07-09-2007, 10:27 AM

Whats an extra 2-5 seconds? Come on now...

Scene modes are for the completely lazy.
Just use a priority mode. It will give you
a better shot at the cost of an extra couple
of seconds.

Dont put any value on the scene modes.

The only modes a camera really needs is an
aperture priority, a shutter priority, an ISO
priority, full manual, and full auto. Thats good
enough to take care of all needs, IMHO.

RoxnDox · 07-09-2007, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by Kingsofronin

Whats an extra 2-5 seconds? Come on now...

Scene modes are for the completely lazy.
Just use a priority mode. It will give you
a better shot at the cost of an extra couple
of seconds.

Dont put any value on the scene modes.

The only modes a camera really needs is an
aperture priority, a shutter priority, an ISO
priority, full manual, and full auto. Thats good
enough to take care of all needs, IMHO.

"Completely lazy". Nice way to make friends and influence people into seeing things your way... You'll note I did not say they're always good, nor that I use them often. I said they SOMETIMES can be useful. Sheesh.

Kingsofronin · 07-09-2007, 11:53 AM

I actually cant even think of a situation where they would be useful.

If you can think of one, let me know.

RoxnDox · 07-09-2007, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Kingsofronin

I actually cant even think of a situation where they would be useful.

If you can think of one, let me know.

I already did. New camera, cold weather, didn't feel an urgent need to stand in the snow longer than necessary in -30F windchill. Just because *YOU* don't consider it useful doesn't mean jack about what other people consider useful.

07-09-2007, 03:59 AM	#34
property#1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 64	K10D Maybe! I would like to ask a question which I know has been asked more than once but have to ask for myself. I have an istDL and a K100D and am now considering moving to a K10D and would like to hear why I should or should not move up to the K10D. Most of my photos are outside in natural light, flowers animals and a few landscapes from time to time. The lenses I use are Sigma 50 F2.8 Macro, Sigma 24-135 F2.8 and Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

07-09-2007, 07:02 AM	#35
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by property#1 I have an istDL and a K100D and am now considering moving to a K10D and would like to hear why I should or should not move up to the K10D. Most of my photos are outside in natural light, flowers animals and a few landscapes from time to time. The lenses I use are Sigma 50 F2.8 Macro, Sigma 24-135 F2.8 and Sigma 70-300 APO DG Macro. Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated. Since I'm not a salesman for Pentax, I don't feel any obligation to sell you a K10D whether you need it or not. You've got two good cameras already. So, what about the K10D attracts you? Here are a few of the K10D's differences from the K100D: Better ergonomics, meaning that more of the controls are on the outside and most tasks are easier to accomplish. Having two e-dials (one in front, one in back) is great. Better continuous shooting Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!) Supports battery grip (but uses proprietary battery, which seems like an advantage to some but not to others) Supposedly superior processor Weather sealing More megapixels Ability to save raw files as DNG as well as PEF More bracketing options Supports the new Pentax lenses I've organized them more or less in the order of their importance to me now. What's on there that you can't live without? Will

07-09-2007, 09:31 AM	#39
property#1 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Posts: 64	K10D Maybe! First I would like to say thank-you to WMBP and bjsmith for the reply. To answer your question WMBP I think the 10 megapixels, weather seal and anti dust are some of the features that interest me. I find with the K100D there always seems to be a dust spot on the shot. I have also heard and read that the anti shake in the K10D is better than the K100D and as I have minor tremors in my left arm, (health related) I thought maybe I might get away without the tripod more often. Regarding the scene features on the K100D I have never used them and most likely never will. I shoot aperture priority or full manual almost all the time. I guess I asked my question in hopes of justifying the purchase of the K10D and selling the K100D. Thanks for your opinions and help.

07-09-2007, 10:15 AM	#41
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	Originally posted by bjsmith I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them. There's nothing more insignificant that the "scene modes" which too many reviews take points off of the K10D for not having. And people looking between the K100D and K10D shouldn't give them another thought, there is no advantage to the K100D on that in my book. I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet. There can be some use for them, though. I have found the scene settings handy on one particular occasion, when I wanted to capture a sunrise on my way to work and it was right about zero (F, not C) with a good stiff wind blowing. Since I had only had the camera a short time, and it would have taken a fair amount of fiddling around to match the ambient lighting, I was happy to have a button to pick the right settings for me. Saved me from a much longer stand in the snow... The resulting pic may not be the best sunrise ever captured, but it turned out pretty nicely. I sure wouldn't base a camera purchase on the presence or absence of a 'scenes' function, but they do sometimes have a useful place in the toolkit. Jim Last edited by RoxnDox; 09-06-2007 at 01:10 PM.

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06-26-2007, 04:31 AM	#31
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	I think buying the camera is only 1/3 of your concern (or any beginners). 1/3 of effort should be invested in basic photography, and the last 1/3 on postprocessing. With the last 2/3 done, you will do fine with any DSLRs. Even the most expensive cameras & lenses can produce crappy shots (technically) if the users had no idea what they were doing.

06-26-2007, 08:02 AM	#32
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	sto bjsmith Please please - ignore all the K10D user reports stating that JPEG's do not have a problem. Continue to fall in line behind the agenda driven reviewers like a sheep after all real users don't know as much as a "reviewer". Oh - the K100D was reviewed by dpr after the K10D - and we beat up uncle phil pretty bad about that review. So what did he do? He changed his review method - lo and behold - JPEG's are "better". Go figure. Please do not buy a K10D --- you will be so disappointed to find out the reviewers are wrong. PDL

06-26-2007, 08:04 AM	#33
bjsmith Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD (USA) ; Orlando, FL (USA) Posts: 287	Originally posted by PDL sto bjsmith Please please - ignore all the K10D user reports stating that JPEG's do not have a problem. Continue to fall in line behind the agenda driven reviewers like a sheep after all real users don't know as much as a "reviewer". Oh - the K100D was reviewed by dpr after the K10D - and we beat up uncle phil pretty bad about that review. So what did he do? He changed his review method - lo and behold - JPEG's are "better". Go figure. Please do not buy a K10D --- you will be so disappointed to find out the reviewers are wrong. PDL Fair enough.

07-09-2007, 08:17 AM	#36
bjsmith Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD (USA) ; Orlando, FL (USA) Posts: 287	Originally posted by WMBP [*]Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!) I'll re-iterate, as K100D user, that I don't bother with the "scene modes" at all. So I consider it a non-consideration with regards to the K10D, despite various reviews marking off for the lack of them on the K10D. If I want "scene modes," I'll use a Point'n Shoot (although they suck on them as well).

07-09-2007, 08:46 AM	#37
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by bjsmith I'll re-iterate, as K100D user, that I don't bother with the "scene modes" at all. So I consider it a non-consideration with regards to the K10D, despite various reviews marking off for the lack of them on the K10D. Should have been clear from my list that, in my view at least, the lack of scene modes is a PLUS for the K10D. I said, "no scene modes (yay!)." Now it's true that you can ignore the 50% of the mode dial on the K100D that's taken up with the scene modes. I personally prefer not to have to look at features that I paid for but really dislike, but you can ignore them, and the presence of the scene modes doesn't make the K100D a worse camera. But I didn't list the lack of scene modes in itself as a major plus of the K10D. My item said: "Major mode dial differences: K10D has TAv mode, USER mode, better P mode - but no scene modes at all (yay!)." Of the changes on the mode dial, the lack of scene modes is the least important. Nobody would buy a K10D just to get rid of the little scene mode icons on the dial. But the K10D's mode dial generally is a plus for the model. I'm fond of USER mode, like the difference in P mode, love TAv mode, etc. Anyway, not to get sidetracked on this silly issue, I'm still hoping to hear from the OP what items on my list of K10D differences he (she?) thinks are compelling. Will

07-09-2007, 08:53 AM	#38
bjsmith Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Baltimore, MD (USA) ; Orlando, FL (USA) Posts: 287	Originally posted by WMBP Should have been clear from my list that, in my view at least, the lack of scene modes is a PLUS for the K10D. I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them. There's nothing more insignificant that the "scene modes" which too many reviews take points off of the K10D for not having. And people looking between the K100D and K10D shouldn't give them another thought, there is no advantage to the K100D on that in my book. I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet.

07-09-2007, 09:48 AM	#40
WMBP Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,482	Originally posted by bjsmith I was just saying that even I, a K100D user coming from a Point'n Shoot, don't bother with them....I've now said this enough times so I'll be quiet. Ah, a bit of standard list confusion. I think we're in agreement, then, and I too will try to keep quiet. Although I'm not very good at it. :-) Will

07-09-2007, 10:27 AM	#42
Kingsofronin Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 150	Whats an extra 2-5 seconds? Come on now... Scene modes are for the completely lazy. Just use a priority mode. It will give you a better shot at the cost of an extra couple of seconds. Dont put any value on the scene modes. The only modes a camera really needs is an aperture priority, a shutter priority, an ISO priority, full manual, and full auto. Thats good enough to take care of all needs, IMHO.

07-09-2007, 11:08 AM	#43
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	Originally posted by Kingsofronin Whats an extra 2-5 seconds? Come on now... Scene modes are for the completely lazy. Just use a priority mode. It will give you a better shot at the cost of an extra couple of seconds. Dont put any value on the scene modes. The only modes a camera really needs is an aperture priority, a shutter priority, an ISO priority, full manual, and full auto. Thats good enough to take care of all needs, IMHO. "Completely lazy". Nice way to make friends and influence people into seeing things your way... You'll note I did not say they're always good, nor that I use them often. I said they SOMETIMES can be useful. Sheesh.

07-09-2007, 11:53 AM	#44
Kingsofronin Banned Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 150	I actually cant even think of a situation where they would be useful. If you can think of one, let me know.

07-09-2007, 12:23 PM	#45
RoxnDox Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Gig Harbor, Washington, USA, Terra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,494	Originally posted by Kingsofronin I actually cant even think of a situation where they would be useful. If you can think of one, let me know. I already did. New camera, cold weather, didn't feel an urgent need to stand in the snow longer than necessary in -30F windchill. Just because YOU don't consider it useful doesn't mean jack about what other people consider useful.