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01-22-2010, 02:30 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by pniauris Quote
The reasons I would like an FF dSLR are two.

First is that what the eye percepts as detail on a photo isn't the "lines per mm"
but the "lines per frame" capacity of the lens. So FF lenses on APS-C gear suffer
a 0.66x penalty on their real dissolving capacity because of the croping factor.
Profesionists hate this so the brands that deal largely with them have the FF choises for them . I hate this also but all my FF lenses are either pentaxes or
M42's so there's not much to do .
So all those great prints that I got with my K10D and 31mm and 77mm Limiteds are not actually as good as they look. Thanks for the tip.

01-22-2010, 02:45 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
So all those great prints that I got with my K10D and 31mm and 77mm Limiteds are not actually as good as they look. Thanks for the tip.
You can fix that. Just set your K10 for 6mp Jpegs and crop.
01-22-2010, 03:28 PM   #18
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I used a Canon 5D for 3 years until the summer of 2009. I now use a k7. In my humble opinion, now days the main advantage of FF over APS-C is in the raw high-iso performance. Back in 2006, when I purchased the 5D, I also used to place a high value on the fact that the wide-angle glass was better in the FF; currently that "advantage" is less important with the availability of lenses in the 10-20mm range.

I switched to Pentax for the following reasons: (1) for my budget, the availability of SR in the body partially compensates for the high-iso disadvantage; (2) the availability of low-cost and reasonably priced high-quality primes; (3) the smaller size of the aps-c system; (4) the high quality of construction of the k20d and the k7; and (5) the fact that only a few of the images that I captured with the 5D were taken at an iso higher than 400. These reasons are obviously very personal, but right now I feel that, for the type of photography I normally do (mostly nature and portraits), my needs are satisfied with the aps-c sensor. However, for other types of photography (such as events and sports) I believe the extra flexibility of being able to capture low-noise images using a high-iso and reasonable shutter speeds, which can be provided by a larger sensor, can be a great advantage.
01-22-2010, 10:12 PM   #19
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My reasons for wanting a FF Pentax are quite simple & straightforward. I would like my M42 Takumars (upon which I rely for 99% of my shooting) to actually deliver the field of view "as God intended" (especially my wide angle lenses). Retaining the bodies I now own would allow me the advantages of each when needed.

01-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymeedc Quote
My reasons for wanting a FF Pentax are quite simple & straightforward. I would like my M42 Takumars (upon which I rely for 99% of my shooting) to actually deliver the field of view "as God intended" (especially my wide angle lenses). Retaining the bodies I now own would allow me the advantages of each when needed.
Didn't a lot of the old lenses vignette?
01-22-2010, 10:19 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymeedc Quote
My reasons for wanting a FF Pentax are quite simple & straightforward. I would like my M42 Takumars (upon which I rely for 99% of my shooting) to actually deliver the field of view "as God intended" (especially my wide angle lenses). Retaining the bodies I now own would allow me the advantages of each when needed.
Didn't some of the old lenses have a tendency to vignette?
01-23-2010, 12:05 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Didn't some of the old lenses have a tendency to vignette?
I don't know why that would be, as the older full frame lenses have a wider coverage than the modern cropped sensors require. On the *ist DS bodies I shoot with, I haven't noticed that. I do, however, crop at least a bit with most of my photos. I will, now that you've mentioned it, though, pay closer attention to this & see if I notice that effect with any of my older lenses.
01-23-2010, 12:11 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymeedc Quote
I don't know why that would be, as the older full frame lenses have a wider coverage than the modern cropped sensors require. On the *ist DS bodies I shoot with, I haven't noticed that. I do, however, crop at least a bit with most of my photos. I will, now that you've mentioned it, though, pay closer attention to this & see if I notice that effect with any of my older lenses.
I was referring to the old lenses on FF. I've heard of some vignetting at wider apertures but I don't whether that is on certain lenses or whether it is more extensive.
I've always considered it an advantage to using FF lenses on a cropped sensor in that they reduce the chance of edge softness in the image.

01-23-2010, 12:19 AM   #24
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Correct me if I am wrong but I've heard FF has a DOF "advantage" (meaning it tends to be shallower at a given aperture).
01-23-2010, 12:42 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I was referring to the old lenses on FF. I've heard of some vignetting at wider apertures but I don't whether that is on certain lenses or whether it is more extensive.
I've always considered it an advantage to using FF lenses on a cropped sensor in that they reduce the chance of edge softness in the image.
Thanks for the clarification..... that makes more sense. Although I have a full range of M42s, from 17mm, 20mm & on up, I've never noticed this. I may, though, be the wrong person to ask, as I rarely shoot wide open with any lens, & even when I do, I usually crop at least a bit.
01-23-2010, 01:53 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote
Correct me if I am wrong but I've heard FF has a DOF "advantage" (meaning it tends to be shallower at a given aperture).
Depends on what you mean with advantage.

You get shallower DoF, so if that's what you want, it's an advantage.

If you want more DoF, it's not an advantage. You'll need to stop down more to get the same DoF as on APS-C, so you lose light compared to APS-C.


Edit and OT: The mouse-over feature on DoF should also be on APS-C (Advanced Photo System - type-C)
01-23-2010, 01:16 PM   #27
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Hmmmmmmm - then all the togs around the world who use the 5d mk11, d700, 1dmk111, 1dsmk111 obviously are an unintelligent bunch - you reckon that they should become more informed and switch to a Pentax 20D/K7?

Canon & Nikon must have the best marketing & sales team in the world to fool the whole world (potential dslr purchasers) into buying their products.

To also say that you cannot see the difference between a 5d mk11 d700 file on a 24" monitor needs serious re-consideration - well my eyes are not deceived - thats for sure.
01-23-2010, 01:26 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by raymeedc Quote
Thanks for the clarification..... that makes more sense. Although I have a full range of M42s, from 17mm, 20mm & on up, I've never noticed this. I may, though, be the wrong person to ask, as I rarely shoot wide open with any lens, & even when I do, I usually crop at least a bit.
It probably wouldn't be an issue for you then.
01-23-2010, 02:25 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
Hmmmmmmm - then all the togs around the world who use the 5d mk11, d700, 1dmk111, 1dsmk111 obviously are an unintelligent bunch - you reckon that they should become more informed and switch to a Pentax 20D/K7?

Canon & Nikon must have the best marketing & sales team in the world to fool the whole world (potential dslr purchasers) into buying their products.

To also say that you cannot see the difference between a 5d mk11 d700 file on a 24" monitor needs serious re-consideration - well my eyes are not deceived - thats for sure.
Excessively inflammatory.

OF COURSE there are photographers that can take full advantage of an FF system (wide angle with little distortion, super fine DoF, etc...). There are also times when one crucially needs an FF for a certain picture.
That said, most hobbyists do not. And do not want to lug that much weight around.
In fact, a lot of us would get good pictures with a P&S as well.

The reason why I switched to a DSLR was to be able to switch lenses for the job, be able to manually focus well, and have somewhat better high ISO performance - although some brige cameras can do as well as DSLRs by now.

What has happened is that it made me more critical of my photography and helped me along, at least a little. A FF DSLR would do very little for me at my current skill level.

But for pros, who shoot in more set-up ways, an FF can make sense. But I have seen people with FF cameras taking P&S-type snapshots.

And that is the point that was made - with the amount of people who own DSLRs today, only a very small number of those are capable of fully using a FF camera. And some of these capable people may even choose to stay with an APS-C, because it is lighter.
01-23-2010, 08:06 PM   #30
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I've been pondering this question myself. For a while, I've been longing to upgrade to FF, but I'm starting to question myself on that. I see what pros like Ben can produce with cropped sensor cameras and wonder what the fuss is all about.

I've been thinking about either renting or borrowing a 5D to use and see for myself.

I'm beginning to lean more and more towards the idea of a photographer's skill set making a bigger difference in their results than their gear. That's not to say that gear doesn't make a difference at all. Good quality gear definitely makes things easier, both in the field and in PP.

I'm pretty happy with the results I'm getting the Canon 40D--the only thing I really wish for is a few more MPs to give me a little more wiggle room in cropping.

Anyway, that's my 2˘...
Heather
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