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View Poll Results: How Many Megapixels Do You Want in a Full-Frame Pentax Camera
12MP - Low-light monster, because I want to take photos of moles on moonless nights 3925.49%
18MP - Middle of the road, because I can never make my mind up 5737.25%
24MP - High resolution monster, because I want to resolve every blade of grass in my photographs 5737.25%
Voters: 153. You may not vote on this poll

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02-02-2010, 04:14 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
C'mon everyone, get your vote in. We need to reach 1000 votes so we can claim a meaningful result

You're right. This is pathetic. Only ~120 potential buyers of a FF Pentax camera...and less than half of them would actually buy one.

Last edited by asdf; 02-02-2010 at 05:59 PM.
02-02-2010, 06:30 PM   #62
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"I will be holding out for... ONE MILLION PIXELS."

"Um, sir, one million pixels isn't a lot these days. A K100D alone has six million."

"Really? That's lot of pixels. Well, then we shall hold out for ONE HUNDRED BILLION PIXELS."
02-02-2010, 08:43 PM   #63
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I would like the photosites on whatever size sensor to have 7+ UM photosites a bigger bucket catches more light with less bloom and noise!
02-02-2010, 08:55 PM   #64

I want all of them.

02-03-2010, 12:12 AM   #65
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I always thought that I wanted a low MP high ISO camera like the D700.

Then I was playing arround with a noisy high ISO file that came from the A850. looking at it, it had the typical noise the Sony is know for.

Then I downsampled the file to match the K-7 image size. I was stunned at how much the image was improved.

The Canon has better out of the camera high ISO then does the Sony, I would expect a downsized image from the Canon to be excelent for high ISO noise. I havn't tried it, but I would expect a 5D mkii image, downsized to D700 image size, would be as good if not better for noise control then the Nikon. If i can find suitable files I might give it a try.

Anyhow, now I'm thinking a high MP camera might be the more flexable option.
02-03-2010, 08:35 AM   #66
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You're getting something that most people don't. They look at 100% crops and deem the higher megapixel camera "noisier" and suddenly everyone "knows" that a lower res camera is cleaner. Never mind that it's like comparing different size prints. I have a feeling that a good part of the reason the G11 had a reduced pixel count from the G10 is that it's become "internet wisdom" and people kept demanding lower pixel density for "lower noise" and Canon made a clever marketing move appeasing the crowds. Pretty brilliant if you think about it, first they get people to buy higher and higher MP cameras, and now they can start backing it down in the name of low noise and get people to buy those because they don't know better. I bet that if the 50D was replaced with a 10 megapixel "low noise" 60D Canon would be praised for their wisdom and attention to noise even if a resized 50D shot turned out to be just as clean...

Somebody on FM did an excellent test where they resized 1Ds Mark III images to the same size as D700 images, and guess what? The 1Ds was actually _cleaner_ than the D700.
02-03-2010, 10:09 AM   #67
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If ever Pentax made a FF SLR then I would like it to be 12MP only with dual PRIME II processing engine. Full body like D3 . Built in flash. And price less than 3000USD. Lets see likes of canon and nikon try to beat the penatx competition. I still have kept my old pentax high speed primes for the pentax FF DSLR only.
02-03-2010, 10:17 AM   #68
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OK APS-C sized sensors have reached 15Mp and even 18Mp (Canon 7D). However as reviews and people have found those have difficulties at higher ISO. So for now the sweet spot seems to be 12Mp for the APS-C like in the K-x, Nikon D90 etc.

There are two main advantages of going FF (Full-Frame)
1) the ability to have wider angle lenses and "full use" of existing 35mm FF lenses.
2) more sensor area so - larger pixel sites or more same sized pixels.

Both these advantages seems to have diminished over the past few years.
1) wider angle lenses have now become available for APS-C - not only that APS-C makes lens designs a bit easier due to the smaller coverage area - also lenses can be physically smaller lighter. Due to the prevalence of APS-C there are now lots of lenses that are actually APS-C only - so the actual balance has turned that there are more lenses available for APS-C sized sensors than for FF - since lenses for APS-C cannot be used for FF - whereas FF lenses can be used with APS-C.

2) More (same sized) pixels or bigger pixel sites - used to be an advantage when dSLRs were a "mere" 6Mp -
However now 12Mp is commonplace
and 12Mp is actually plenty.

Sure there will always be the need/call for more Mp - but for most people 10-12Mp is more than enough.

Of course the case can be argued that if one were to do big sized prints then more Mp are needed -
Please take a look at this thread -
How can they print that big with only 12mp?
I don't seem to be able to view the video now from the USA....
(but I had saved a copy back when the thread was current)
Hopefully people in the UK still can see it?
but the gist is they printed to 17x10 metres(!)
and on the video the print looked not just "acceptable",
but great, easily beating out the ISO400 film shot......

So how big?

OK so maybe 12Mp is enough - but the other argument would be for better signal/noise ratio since that monster print was from a Nikon D700 FF.

Ah, but with the K-x, Nikon D90/D5000 12Mp APS-C "Sony" sensor - signal/noise is excellent - ISO400 would not be any problem, in fact ISO1600 is darned good and ISO3200 more than acceptable....... ISO6400 might be a stretch, and ISO12800 might be for emergencies -
but now we're starting to be ridiculous.

I shoot in very challenging environments (read low light) and I can now get away with using the mere humble kit zooms with the K-x -
and the K-x only cost $550.....
what's the price of FF?
not only that I will have to buy new (FF) lenses
since I only have APS-C lenses for Pentax.....
(but, I still own FF lenses from Olympus (non-AF) and Minolta/Sony).

So I can't see much advantage for even going FF - for me, YMMV ......

(of course mention should be made for shallower depth of field therefore separation for the larger format......
but I actually like more DoF for more things in focus -
I can still do selective (planes of) focus with APS-C -
it's not that hard since I seem to be always shooting at max aperture anyway...
around f/4 seems to be just about right......
besides that argument could have been used for any larger than 35mm FF format -
like 6x6cm or 2 1/4 square, 5x4, or even 10x8 cameras.....
don't see those arguments anywhere.....)

So I'll have to abstain from voting or vote none of the above
because a few years ago I was very interested in FF -
now not so much....

02-03-2010, 10:28 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
OK APS-C sized sensors have reached 15Mp and even 18Mp (Canon 7D). However as reviews and people have found those have difficulties at higher ISO. So for now the sweet spot seems to be 12Mp for the APS-C like in the K-x, Nikon D90 etc.
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with those conclusions. The 7D sensor is pretty damn impressive, and high ISO performance is excellent on it. In fact, it outperforms the 40D sensor at higher ISO and has nearly TWICE the number of pixels on it. Which reviews have you found that state they have "difficulties" at higher ISO? Real world shooting shows that it's the best performing crop sensor body Canon has ever made.

Yeah, the D90 is a great performer at high ISO, but we don't have a 15 or 18 MP version of it to compare against to see if more pixels would make it any worse.

Me, I'd take same or better ISO performance with a lot more pixes.
02-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Yeah, the D90 is a great performer at high ISO, but we don't have a 15 or 18 MP version of it to compare against to see if more pixels would make it any worse.
That is exactly what it was about
I didn't say the Canon 7D was bad -
it is indeed very good - "for 18Mp" -
as you just pointed out yourself the D90 is "better" -
but obviously the D90 is only 12Mp .....

so the only point I was making is that 12Mp is the current sweet spot for APS-C - 18Mp is more than acceptable, good even - (however would it be fair to say the K-7 does have some difficulties at higher ISO?) - 15-18Mp seems to be the current limit for APS-C.

Now of course 18Mp on FF would be a walk in the park with something like the Canon 7D technology.

But then would one really need FF if 18Mp is already acceptable on APS-C, good even?
and 18Mp APS-C was undreamed of just a couple of years ago, so where might be the limit for APS-C?

As always YMMV - and I had already clearly made that caveat -
for most practical purposes 10-12Mp is more than adequate -
unless of course you wish to make really BIG prints....
bigger than 17x10 metres -
that's 56x33 ft or 672"x396"?

I don't have that sized paper, much less a printer for that!

Last edited by UnknownVT; 02-03-2010 at 11:42 AM.
02-04-2010, 10:03 AM   #71
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24--too much noise!
18--Meh! Too much noise, only would consider it if they gave away free memory cards.
12--right where it should be. A smaller, weatherproof D700 killer.

Better yet, develop two chips and undercut both Sony, Nikon and Canon by beating all three at their game. The coup would be maintaining the K-X high-iso JPG quality, and offering this in smaller, WP bodies.
02-04-2010, 11:42 AM   #72
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Given the above choices, I would prefer a 24MP FF because it will serve as three cameras in one. I can use it as a 24MP FF. I can use it as a 10MP APS-C. I can use it as a 6MP four thirds. More flexibility....
And I am not giving up on the extra reach from the APS-C. I can still use my DA lens. In fact I could gain more reach by switching to 6MP mode. As far as I am concerned, the more MP, the better, if cost is not of concerned.
02-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #73
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Hello every one, I haven't posted to this wonderful site in quite a while but I thought I'd chime in on this one even though my desire in a dslr will probably be deemed silly.

I would like a dslr that would offer intercahangeable sensors.

Although you have a lot more lattitude in iso(asa) of a sensor by adjusting the gain of the output than with film by pushing/pulling any sensor or film tends to operate best at their native iso(asa).

So give me a camera that comes with a stock sensor that has an average resolution for every day stuff, but then allow me to swap it out for a sensor with a smaller number of big honking sensor sites that'll give supurb high iso (asa) performance. Conversely, another option might be a sensor with a slew of tiny ssensor sites for supurb resolution. Maybe you could throw in another option with no bayer filter for better b&w performance. (much like choosing between pan-x, plus-x or tri-x depending on conditions/desired effects that we did back in the old days except to greater extreems.)

Like I said, my idea is silly, if not simply overly complicated / expensive to accomplish.

but look who wrote it, "cak" is not to be trusted.

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