Kx with external flash +K-7 user story

Mystic · 02-06-2010, 06:59 AM

Story:
(if you do not want to read it go downward to the dots.)
.............................................
When I was choosing my first Dslr, my main concern was image quality. I then, chose K10d, got into the pentax system, and after a year, replaced k10d with k20d, mostly because of the improvement in IQ, and I was happy.. then k20d got me in troubles during the weddings in low light situations.. but I had 540 flash, yet, K20d, had dificulties focussing properly in low light, and even more so, at the end of the day, when batteries, on the flash were getting low.. so K-7 came out.. and I researched day and night.. and in the end of november bouht it.
wrote this thread..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/81257-even-all-fuss-i-still-did.html
and was happy and high..

then somehow couldn't trust myself with K-7
and started these threads.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83867-abstract-pix-ok-k-7-a.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83977-nature-frosty-morning-5-pics.html

and after some assurance all seemed ok.. yet the image quality issue kept on bugging me, because on k20d images were more real.
and then I talked my girlfriend in to it:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/84216-people-family-enlargement.html

and we were happy..
we made several outings and here is the chronology..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/87038-nature-several-yesterday.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88112-architecture-modest-church.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88117-nature-another-win...8-celsium.html
note that all these outings were done with both cameras, and Kx did not suffer from the cold, and operated as well as my k-7; to go into more cold environment I wouldn't risk, because it was really cold!
yet, all this time IQ concern was bugging me and I was not feeling well, during every outing, I fought the internal fight and tried to prove with k-7 that it's image quality is great..
I did my best according to the conditions.. but my girlfriend everytime surprised me, with her kx, and I admit:

I do not like the IQ of k-7, I do not like it's generally too dark shadow areas.
if d-range applied those areas become noisy. and if raising shadows in LR even with raw images noise was getting me irritated
I do not like it's noise control, especially 3200, everything over it was not usable at all. therefore, I used Eagle's Noise Ninja profiles, yet, I was working on the pictureshot in raw for 10 minutes, and got, what my girlfriend was getting shooting jpeg straight out of camera..

I got tired. and.. today I sold K-7. and ordered Kx.
what do I mean.. since my main point in photography is Image quality.. From now on I will follow it and only it and if necessary will compromise in other areas...

afterall when you give pictures to people, no one cares with what camera it was done.. they look at the image quality.

so Kx is on the way, and for the spare money I will buy some new lens.
.........................................................
Question:

Question regarding Kx ability to expose with external flashes..

Since k20d has issues regarding proper exposure with external flashes like 540 and 360, and K-7 is significantly better, I wonder how is the Kx in this matter.

Peter Zack · 02-06-2010, 11:37 AM

I have come to a similar conculsion without buying a K-7.
I'm happy with the K20D's I have and love the IQ. So that leaves me with buying a KX for indoor low light uses. The K20D does well but not quite what I want in the toughest situations. Focus hasn't been much of an issue depending on the lens used. (forget SDM in tough light) For that I use a Sigma 28mm f1.8 and a FA50mm f1.4 and they do fine.

It's the noise at Higher ISO's, So until there's a FF solution, I think the KX is the way to go inside a church. For everything else, the K20D's will do a stellar job.

Graystar · 02-06-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

I think the KX is the way to go inside a church.

I'd say it's a bit too loud for a church...WEEEEEEEE...WEEE...CHICK-CHICKnggg

Gonna wake someone up...

Peter Zack · 02-06-2010, 12:53 PM

I don't think it's any louder than a K20D. The mirror slap is about the same sound. In fact I bet it's the same shutter.

Graystar · 02-06-2010, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

I don't think it's any louder than a K20D. The mirror slap is about the same sound. In fact I bet it's the same shutter.

The K20D is too loud for a church? Didn't know that...

(sorry...it's Saturday and I'm snowed in!)

Peter Zack · 02-06-2010, 01:01 PM

That's not what I said. The K20D and KX probably use the same shutter mech. The mirror slap is louder than the K-7 but not so much as to be an issue.

There's no Weeeeee, weeeee or whatever since there's no motor drive these days.

Graystar · 02-06-2010, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

That's not what I said.

I apologize...was just joking.

Originally posted by Peter Zack

There's no Weeeeee, weeeee or whatever since there's no motor drive these days.

No, no motor drive, but there's an autofocus drive that's plenty loud and sounds just like that.

Mystic · 02-06-2010, 02:36 PM

well, in my opinion, Kx is a bit louder and "rawer" than the K20d shutter..
and of course both are much louder than the k-7

will have to use to it.. as well as many other comfort compromises..

kent · 02-06-2010, 05:16 PM

I would go with K-7 as long as I do not use more than ISO 1600. Furthermore, K-7 is much more advanced camera however kx is good at high iso.

Peter Zack · 02-06-2010, 05:25 PM

Ah yes the focus drive. You want some noise, use an F SMC 70-210mm f4-5.6. Very good older lens optically but it will wake the dead. If it's an old Catholic church with a crypt inside (some have this), the souls could make the wedding an interesting event if that lens wakes them up. Nice lens but unbelievably noisy.

Most others are fine.

zxaar · 02-06-2010, 05:26 PM

are you crazy you are saying all this here on this forum.

it is sin to say that kx has better image quality than k7 (and you bought kx instead of k7). You can not just do it.

PS: i said something similar so i was told to learn photography first. I am learning photography now so that i can use k7 ;-)

Originally posted by Mystic

Story:
(if you do not want to read it go downward to the dots.)
.............................................
When I was choosing my first Dslr, my main concern was image quality. I then, chose K10d, got into the pentax system, and after a year, replaced k10d with k20d, mostly because of the improvement in IQ, and I was happy.. then k20d got me in troubles during the weddings in low light situations.. but I had 540 flash, yet, K20d, had dificulties focussing properly in low light, and even more so, at the end of the day, when batteries, on the flash were getting low.. so K-7 came out.. and I researched day and night.. and in the end of november bouht it.
wrote this thread..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/81257-even-all-fuss-i-still-did.html
and was happy and high..

then somehow couldn't trust myself with K-7
and started these threads.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83867-abstract-pix-ok-k-7-a.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83977-nature-frosty-morning-5-pics.html

and after some assurance all seemed ok.. yet the image quality issue kept on bugging me, because on k20d images were more real.
and then I talked my girlfriend in to it:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/84216-people-family-enlargement.html

and we were happy..
we made several outings and here is the chronology..
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/87038-nature-several-yesterday.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88112-architecture-modest-church.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88117-nature-another-win...8-celsium.html
note that all these outings were done with both cameras, and Kx did not suffer from the cold, and operated as well as my k-7; to go into more cold environment I wouldn't risk, because it was really cold!
yet, all this time IQ concern was bugging me and I was not feeling well, during every outing, I fought the internal fight and tried to prove with k-7 that it's image quality is great..
I did my best according to the conditions.. but my girlfriend everytime surprised me, with her kx, and I admit:

I do not like the IQ of k-7, I do not like it's generally too dark shadow areas.
if d-range applied those areas become noisy. and if raising shadows in LR even with raw images noise was getting me irritated
I do not like it's noise control, especially 3200, everything over it was not usable at all. therefore, I used Eagle's Noise Ninja profiles, yet, I was working on the pictureshot in raw for 10 minutes, and got, what my girlfriend was getting shooting jpeg straight out of camera..

I got tired. and.. today I sold K-7. and ordered Kx.
what do I mean.. since my main point in photography is Image quality.. From now on I will follow it and only it and if necessary will compromise in other areas...

afterall when you give pictures to people, no one cares with what camera it was done.. they look at the image quality.

so Kx is on the way, and for the spare money I will buy some new lens.
.........................................................
Question:

Question regarding Kx ability to expose with external flashes..

Since k20d has issues regarding proper exposure with external flashes like 540 and 360, and K-7 is significantly better, I wonder how is the Kx in this matter.

Mystic · 02-06-2010, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by zxaar

are you crazy you are saying all this here on this forum.

it is sin to say that kx has better image quality than k7 (and you bought kx instead of k7). You can not just do it.

PS: i said something similar so i was told to learn photography first. I am learning photography now so that i can use k7 ;-)

I hope I will not be punished violently for that..

but, I also agree that K-7 was almost a perfection except IQ.
It was a joy to use it.. but.. we are taking pictures.. and even the biggest joy in taking them is destroyed if the work we did (or fun we had), end product - pictures do not meet the expectations.

P.S. I do not say that RH or Hin tech's corner bloggers are great photographers, but they also chose Kx. I find RH critique in many instances true with reality.

please do not crucify me.

zxaar · 02-06-2010, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Mystic

I hope I will not be punished violently for that..

but, I also agree that K-7 was almost a perfection except IQ.
It was a joy to use it.. but.. we are taking pictures.. and even the biggest joy in taking them is destroyed if the work we did (or fun we had), end product - pictures do not meet the expectations.

P.S. I do not say that RH or Hin tech's corner bloggers are great photographers, but they also chose Kx. I find RH critique in many instances true with reality.

please do not crucify me.

most of the guys here are intelligent only one or two fanboys who want to defend their cam at any costs.
k7 has many goodies and some of the people buy it because it, i buy cam only from IQ point of view because i shot fully manual and do not go much in bad weather. so kx was better choice for me.

having said this, i suggested kx to my friend who has no knowledge of photography, i am surprised by images he showed. pretty damn good, and i can tell you he is shooting in all auto mode.

VF-19 · 02-07-2010, 07:34 AM

Originally posted by Graystar

I'd say it's a bit too loud for a church...WEEEEEEEE...WEEE...CHICK-CHICKnggg

Gonna wake someone up...

Can't possibly be as "bad" as a SF-1. Heads turned when I fired it off at a wedding a few years ago. There would be these silent cameras (point and shoots) going off, and then there was me. You knew you were getting a picture taken with that camera.

I find the MZ series to be the quietest (albeit slower in the whole picture taking sequence, except autofocus), followed by the K7, K10D, PZ-1P, and then the SF-1.

nulla · 02-07-2010, 11:35 AM

Yesterday I purchased a K-x for my wife and for a backup camera for myself. (body only)

So far from the few indoor photos taken IQ is quite good, but for features and feel no way would I give up my K-7.

It will come in handy at times and is an excellent camera for entry level photography... plus the missus gets to use all my FA imiteds

Cheers

Neil

02-06-2010, 06:59 AM	#1
Mystic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 490	Kx with external flash +K-7 user story Story: (if you do not want to read it go downward to the dots.) ............................................. When I was choosing my first Dslr, my main concern was image quality. I then, chose K10d, got into the pentax system, and after a year, replaced k10d with k20d, mostly because of the improvement in IQ, and I was happy.. then k20d got me in troubles during the weddings in low light situations.. but I had 540 flash, yet, K20d, had dificulties focussing properly in low light, and even more so, at the end of the day, when batteries, on the flash were getting low.. so K-7 came out.. and I researched day and night.. and in the end of november bouht it. wrote this thread.. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/81257-even-all-fuss-i-still-did.html and was happy and high.. then somehow couldn't trust myself with K-7 and started these threads. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83867-abstract-pix-ok-k-7-a.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83977-nature-frosty-morning-5-pics.html and after some assurance all seemed ok.. yet the image quality issue kept on bugging me, because on k20d images were more real. and then I talked my girlfriend in to it: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/84216-people-family-enlargement.html and we were happy.. we made several outings and here is the chronology.. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/87038-nature-several-yesterday.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88112-architecture-modest-church.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88117-nature-another-win...8-celsium.html note that all these outings were done with both cameras, and Kx did not suffer from the cold, and operated as well as my k-7; to go into more cold environment I wouldn't risk, because it was really cold! yet, all this time IQ concern was bugging me and I was not feeling well, during every outing, I fought the internal fight and tried to prove with k-7 that it's image quality is great.. I did my best according to the conditions.. but my girlfriend everytime surprised me, with her kx, and I admit: I do not like the IQ of k-7, I do not like it's generally too dark shadow areas. if d-range applied those areas become noisy. and if raising shadows in LR even with raw images noise was getting me irritated I do not like it's noise control, especially 3200, everything over it was not usable at all. therefore, I used Eagle's Noise Ninja profiles, yet, I was working on the pictureshot in raw for 10 minutes, and got, what my girlfriend was getting shooting jpeg straight out of camera.. I got tired. and.. today I sold K-7. and ordered Kx. what do I mean.. since my main point in photography is Image quality.. From now on I will follow it and only it and if necessary will compromise in other areas... afterall when you give pictures to people, no one cares with what camera it was done.. they look at the image quality. so Kx is on the way, and for the spare money I will buy some new lens. ......................................................... Question: Question regarding Kx ability to expose with external flashes.. Since k20d has issues regarding proper exposure with external flashes like 540 and 360, and K-7 is significantly better, I wonder how is the Kx in this matter.

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02-06-2010, 11:37 AM	#2
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I have come to a similar conculsion without buying a K-7. I'm happy with the K20D's I have and love the IQ. So that leaves me with buying a KX for indoor low light uses. The K20D does well but not quite what I want in the toughest situations. Focus hasn't been much of an issue depending on the lens used. (forget SDM in tough light) For that I use a Sigma 28mm f1.8 and a FA50mm f1.4 and they do fine. It's the noise at Higher ISO's, So until there's a FF solution, I think the KX is the way to go inside a church. For everything else, the K20D's will do a stellar job.

02-06-2010, 12:34 PM	#3
Graystar Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 144	Originally posted by Peter Zack I think the KX is the way to go inside a church. I'd say it's a bit too loud for a church...WEEEEEEEE...WEEE...CHICK-CHICKnggg Gonna wake someone up...

02-06-2010, 12:53 PM	#4
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	I don't think it's any louder than a K20D. The mirror slap is about the same sound. In fact I bet it's the same shutter.

02-06-2010, 12:58 PM	#5
Graystar Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 144	Originally posted by Peter Zack I don't think it's any louder than a K20D. The mirror slap is about the same sound. In fact I bet it's the same shutter. The K20D is too loud for a church? Didn't know that... (sorry...it's Saturday and I'm snowed in!)

02-06-2010, 01:01 PM	#6
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	That's not what I said. The K20D and KX probably use the same shutter mech. The mirror slap is louder than the K-7 but not so much as to be an issue. There's no Weeeeee, weeeee or whatever since there's no motor drive these days.

02-06-2010, 01:14 PM	#7
Graystar Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 144	Originally posted by Peter Zack That's not what I said. I apologize...was just joking. Originally posted by Peter Zack There's no Weeeeee, weeeee or whatever since there's no motor drive these days. No, no motor drive, but there's an autofocus drive that's plenty loud and sounds just like that.

02-06-2010, 02:36 PM	#8
Mystic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 490 Original Poster	well, in my opinion, Kx is a bit louder and "rawer" than the K20d shutter.. and of course both are much louder than the k-7 will have to use to it.. as well as many other comfort compromises..

02-06-2010, 05:16 PM	#9
kent Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 344	I would go with K-7 as long as I do not use more than ISO 1600. Furthermore, K-7 is much more advanced camera however kx is good at high iso.

02-06-2010, 05:25 PM	#10
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Ah yes the focus drive. You want some noise, use an F SMC 70-210mm f4-5.6. Very good older lens optically but it will wake the dead. If it's an old Catholic church with a crypt inside (some have this), the souls could make the wedding an interesting event if that lens wakes them up. Nice lens but unbelievably noisy. Most others are fine.

02-06-2010, 05:26 PM	#11
zxaar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: kobe/japan Posts: 510	are you crazy you are saying all this here on this forum. it is sin to say that kx has better image quality than k7 (and you bought kx instead of k7). You can not just do it. PS: i said something similar so i was told to learn photography first. I am learning photography now so that i can use k7 ;-) Originally posted by Mystic Story: (if you do not want to read it go downward to the dots.) ............................................. When I was choosing my first Dslr, my main concern was image quality. I then, chose K10d, got into the pentax system, and after a year, replaced k10d with k20d, mostly because of the improvement in IQ, and I was happy.. then k20d got me in troubles during the weddings in low light situations.. but I had 540 flash, yet, K20d, had dificulties focussing properly in low light, and even more so, at the end of the day, when batteries, on the flash were getting low.. so K-7 came out.. and I researched day and night.. and in the end of november bouht it. wrote this thread.. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/81257-even-all-fuss-i-still-did.html and was happy and high.. then somehow couldn't trust myself with K-7 and started these threads. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83867-abstract-pix-ok-k-7-a.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/83977-nature-frosty-morning-5-pics.html and after some assurance all seemed ok.. yet the image quality issue kept on bugging me, because on k20d images were more real. and then I talked my girlfriend in to it: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/84216-people-family-enlargement.html and we were happy.. we made several outings and here is the chronology.. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/87038-nature-several-yesterday.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88112-architecture-modest-church.html https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/post-your-photos/88117-nature-another-win...8-celsium.html note that all these outings were done with both cameras, and Kx did not suffer from the cold, and operated as well as my k-7; to go into more cold environment I wouldn't risk, because it was really cold! yet, all this time IQ concern was bugging me and I was not feeling well, during every outing, I fought the internal fight and tried to prove with k-7 that it's image quality is great.. I did my best according to the conditions.. but my girlfriend everytime surprised me, with her kx, and I admit: I do not like the IQ of k-7, I do not like it's generally too dark shadow areas. if d-range applied those areas become noisy. and if raising shadows in LR even with raw images noise was getting me irritated I do not like it's noise control, especially 3200, everything over it was not usable at all. therefore, I used Eagle's Noise Ninja profiles, yet, I was working on the pictureshot in raw for 10 minutes, and got, what my girlfriend was getting shooting jpeg straight out of camera.. I got tired. and.. today I sold K-7. and ordered Kx. what do I mean.. since my main point in photography is Image quality.. From now on I will follow it and only it and if necessary will compromise in other areas... afterall when you give pictures to people, no one cares with what camera it was done.. they look at the image quality. so Kx is on the way, and for the spare money I will buy some new lens. ......................................................... Question: Question regarding Kx ability to expose with external flashes.. Since k20d has issues regarding proper exposure with external flashes like 540 and 360, and K-7 is significantly better, I wonder how is the Kx in this matter.

02-06-2010, 05:46 PM	#12
Mystic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lithuania Photos: Gallery Posts: 490 Original Poster	Originally posted by zxaar are you crazy you are saying all this here on this forum. it is sin to say that kx has better image quality than k7 (and you bought kx instead of k7). You can not just do it. PS: i said something similar so i was told to learn photography first. I am learning photography now so that i can use k7 ;-) I hope I will not be punished violently for that.. but, I also agree that K-7 was almost a perfection except IQ. It was a joy to use it.. but.. we are taking pictures.. and even the biggest joy in taking them is destroyed if the work we did (or fun we had), end product - pictures do not meet the expectations. P.S. I do not say that RH or Hin tech's corner bloggers are great photographers, but they also chose Kx. I find RH critique in many instances true with reality. please do not crucify me.

02-06-2010, 06:08 PM	#13
zxaar Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: kobe/japan Posts: 510	Originally posted by Mystic I hope I will not be punished violently for that.. but, I also agree that K-7 was almost a perfection except IQ. It was a joy to use it.. but.. we are taking pictures.. and even the biggest joy in taking them is destroyed if the work we did (or fun we had), end product - pictures do not meet the expectations. P.S. I do not say that RH or Hin tech's corner bloggers are great photographers, but they also chose Kx. I find RH critique in many instances true with reality. please do not crucify me. most of the guys here are intelligent only one or two fanboys who want to defend their cam at any costs. k7 has many goodies and some of the people buy it because it, i buy cam only from IQ point of view because i shot fully manual and do not go much in bad weather. so kx was better choice for me. having said this, i suggested kx to my friend who has no knowledge of photography, i am surprised by images he showed. pretty damn good, and i can tell you he is shooting in all auto mode.

02-07-2010, 07:34 AM	#14
VF-19 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Ottawa Posts: 364	Originally posted by Graystar I'd say it's a bit too loud for a church...WEEEEEEEE...WEEE...CHICK-CHICKnggg Gonna wake someone up... Can't possibly be as "bad" as a SF-1. Heads turned when I fired it off at a wedding a few years ago. There would be these silent cameras (point and shoots) going off, and then there was me. You knew you were getting a picture taken with that camera. I find the MZ series to be the quietest (albeit slower in the whole picture taking sequence, except autofocus), followed by the K7, K10D, PZ-1P, and then the SF-1.

02-07-2010, 11:35 AM	#15
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Yesterday I purchased a K-x for my wife and for a backup camera for myself. (body only) So far from the few indoor photos taken IQ is quite good, but for features and feel no way would I give up my K-7. It will come in handy at times and is an excellent camera for entry level photography... plus the missus gets to use all my FA imiteds Cheers Neil