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02-07-2010, 10:29 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The amusing thing to me is that currently, in the Pentax community, the K20 is the most accoladed camera. The Kx gets some high iso props, but in general, the K20 rules. However, when it came out, it was widely bashed as not being enough of a step above the K10. Now, it is generally accepted as being a significant improvement in several ways.

I do think that some people find it necessary to bash equipment to explain why they are not going to "move up." If you are completely satisfied with a K100, or a K10, or a K20, there is no reason to change cameras, but on the other hand, there is no reason to bash the newer cameras either.
Rondec,
We agree on that: each time a new camera (Pentax, anyway) hits the market, it does not take long before you see several threads loaded with dim-witted comments relating to the new unit and/or to the "replaced" ones.
As you say, no use to bash something which you are likely not to buy. Yes indeed, if you are satisfied with a given camera, keep it. If you want to upgrade, like I did (but I kept the K20D), that's your business and no one else's; issues with your new acquisition? ... mention it for the sake of others but please, don't start bashing. (Note: "you" is used in the general sense, not personally to you )

JP

02-07-2010, 10:36 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Everyone can take a bad shot and say "my camera sucks", but it takes more skill to take a great shot so you can say "look what my camera can do".
I did my own share of complaining about bad shots and finding out later that the culprit was the photographer: me! As I mentioned earlier, I have posted dozens (hundreds?) of technical questions on several forums to get answers, and I got them. I still do! I learn something new just about everyday and I am far from being excellent.
Every one in a while I am proud of a certain photo I take, no matter what camera I have used. Very often I goof, no matter what camera I used!

JP
02-07-2010, 10:37 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jadran Quote
jpzk, that's right to the point, in most of the cases! Even more, it's funny to see people bashing equipment that they even didn't use. Maybe we could make a contest here who can make better framed prints of Imagining Resources samples ...
Right!
That would be interesting.
02-07-2010, 10:47 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
Ah, you have noticed that too have you .. although I think that happens on most forums.

Personally I have been ready to upgrade my K10D for months now but after constantly reading this forum I am still no closer to choosing a replacement.
It does happen in all forums.
I do browse some Canon or Nikon forums once in a while, no harm doing that and not because I want to switch brand, and I can see that this is not limited to Pentax products.
I upgraded from the K10D to the K20D; that was a wise choice, not saying that the K10D was "no good" ... my son owns it now and he is just as thrilled as I was when I got it.
Then I got the K7 ... great camera! I doesn't "replace" the K20D, which I still use a lot. Rather, I bought it because of several features which were not available on the K20D. I am happy with both, for different reasons and purposes.
I think some poeple are just waiting for a hybrid K7-Kx.

JP

02-07-2010, 10:57 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
this is not the first time someone has started such thread as OP.

When the forum name is - Pentax DSLR Discussion, it shall be pretty clear that it is gear discussion forum.
Finding fault in gear (camera) and discussing it , is the very nature of this forum. So I see no fault in such discussion (OP calls them bashing). The place to post pictures is different and not this.

It is alright to bash cameras here.

here is a link to - what to post and discuss.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/4-what-post-dslr-section.html
PS: sorry for opposing views but i guess this is not the forum for - going out and shooting some pictures and then showing.
I respect your opinion, zxaar.
However, bashing should instead be a realistic evaluation of the item in question, followed with appropriate comments.
It does not have to be "punishing".

JP
02-07-2010, 12:02 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Someone has started threads to "showcase" the best photos of both the K7 and the Kx. Based on those galleries, I would definitely have to pick the K7. Looks like it just takes better photos over all. Of course, what we are seeing is a demonstration of photographic skill.
Haha.... I would pick my old Sony P200 7mp point and shoot based on the pics in those two threads...
02-07-2010, 12:04 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
It does happen in all forums.
I do browse some Canon or Nikon forums once in a while, no harm doing that and not because I want to switch brand, and I can see that this is not limited to Pentax products.
I upgraded from the K10D to the K20D; that was a wise choice, not saying that the K10D was "no good" ... my son owns it now and he is just as thrilled as I was when I got it.
Then I got the K7 ... great camera! I doesn't "replace" the K20D, which I still use a lot. Rather, I bought it because of several features which were not available on the K20D. I am happy with both, for different reasons and purposes.
I think some poeple are just waiting for a hybrid K7-Kx.

JP
Why doesn't the K7 replace the K20? I would think it does everything the K20 does and more. What am I missing here?
02-07-2010, 04:21 PM   #23
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I almost stuck with Canon due to some of the issues pointed out in the dpreview of the K10d...ended up I was very happy with the K10d

I then stayed away from the K20d due to very bad reviews at the time. I don't think the K20d was doing very well for a while (I bought my original one for $606), then a little later, some reviews started noticing the detail the camera was able to produce and it became popular again.

I sold my k20d to pick up the K7, then was worried after hearing off of the negative posts, so I bought the K20d planning to sell the K7. Ends up after having both in my hands, I seem to get better pictures from the K7 and I have become used to the smaller size and don't like the feel of the K20d anymore.

I also have 3 SDM lenses that have worked flawlessly. I thought of selling those based on the posts about SDM.....but now I know better.

Not that the negative posts and reviews are wrong per se, but I have found them to be misleading.

02-07-2010, 06:21 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Why doesn't the K7 replace the K20? I would think it does everything the K20 does and more. What am I missing here?
For me, it doesn't replace the K20D; it adds to what I wanted.
I always keep two camera bodies, I still do.
Was K10D/K20D for a while, now it's K20D/K7.

JP
02-07-2010, 06:24 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by smc Quote
I almost stuck with Canon due to some of the issues pointed out in the dpreview of the K10d...ended up I was very happy with the K10d

I then stayed away from the K20d due to very bad reviews at the time. I don't think the K20d was doing very well for a while (I bought my original one for $606), then a little later, some reviews started noticing the detail the camera was able to produce and it became popular again.

I sold my k20d to pick up the K7, then was worried after hearing off of the negative posts, so I bought the K20d planning to sell the K7. Ends up after having both in my hands, I seem to get better pictures from the K7 and I have become used to the smaller size and don't like the feel of the K20d anymore.

I also have 3 SDM lenses that have worked flawlessly. I thought of selling those based on the posts about SDM.....but now I know better.

Not that the negative posts and reviews are wrong per se, but I have found them to be misleading.
Thanks, SMC.
Good summary of what a lot of other people think.
Happy with the K7? Good! So, am I, and happy with the K20D too.

JP
02-07-2010, 06:56 PM   #26
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Apples? Oranges?

My ZX-M is better than my K20D because: the ZX-M is full-frame, so my 21mm and 24mm lenses are WIDE and my 16mm is a REAL fisheye - and the ZX-M with the battery pack stays juiced MUCH longer - and with my silver FA 100-300 on the silver-body ZX-M it all looks really kewl - and the ZX-M has a much wider ISO range (try getting ISO 10 or 10K on the K20D, eh?) - and I'm not tempted to chimp on the ZX-M - and I'm more likely to actually PRINT images taken with the ZX-M - and etc etc. Gosh, the K20D is so retarded!

</satire>
02-07-2010, 07:01 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
It does happen in all forums.
I do browse some Canon or Nikon forums once in a while, no harm doing that and not because I want to switch brand, and I can see that this is not limited to Pentax products.
.


Very true. This sort of bashing happens in every gear-centered forum, from entry-level up to the very top - Canon 1DX and Nikon D3x bodies are some of the worse-bashed in history, and some of the best-defended.

Leica advocates seem to have adopted a "just leave us alone!" mindset in the digital age, as they increasingly try to justify the rangefinder platform adapted to digital, and priced in the stratosphere.

I think the bashing breaks down two ways - those that really have a legit gripe and just want to discuss it, and those that delight in causing turmoil and simply picking fights - I call the second group "high-content trolls", because they provide just enough legitimacy and 'meat' to keep themselves from getting banned from whatever forums they haunt.

I think that if you become a two-system shooter, it can really bring perspective. You see the weaknesses of Pentax in the stark relief that only comes from constant usage and comparison (vs online, second-hand memes,) but you'll also see and come to appreciate Pentax's strengths.

For example, I appreciate the Limiteds much more than I did before I bought heavily into Nikon. They are not cheap lenses, but they are unique, and actually stack up against much more expensive pro lenses from Nikon and Canon, while keeping a small form factor - very unique and special. I half expect Canon and Nikon to come up with some similar lines in the next 10 years, as their 'Limiteds" (whatever they call them) will be bought by newbies and fully-stocked folks as well who want to buy something unique, even if it overlaps with a lens they already have.

A far as body comparisons go, I find that the very real advantages another manufacturer may have in any general area are often blown up a bit - in most casual shooting situations, any modern DSLR is capable of getting the job done. High-ISO performance and AF speed are two areas where Pentax lags behind Nikon a bit, but I grab my K20D in low-light situations just as often when I don't need to track a quickly moving object - in-body SR is very valuable in those situations to me.

In the end, I guess we all like to gripe. It's often a useful way Camera companies get feedback, too. I have a problem with it when it generates bad feelings, and when the High Content Trolls began ruling the forums for a while after a body release.



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02-07-2010, 10:21 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by MacKay Quote
good point all the price drop will do is make it a good "bang for the buck"
People don't tend to bash a bang for the buck, though. The current queen, however, is expected to be flawless.
02-07-2010, 10:54 PM   #29
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I think the truth is that to most of us amateurs it probably makes no difference what we shoot with. What cameras themselves bring to your photography - way over-rated. Ben would always take better photos with P and S than me shooting with 645D.
02-08-2010, 05:13 AM   #30
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I've started blaming my lack of amazing photographs on the fact that I don't live in the right location. Maybe I need to move to Easter Island...
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