k10d set up questions

Deiberson · 02-16-2010, 06:21 AM

trying to move from my kx to k10. some of the settings are a little different. i have a few questions but i'll just ask 1 at a time until they are answered.

i just read in the manual that the ev meter doesn't work in M, Green, or Bulb mode.

so when i'm shooting in these modes how would i over or underexpose a shot? is there a way that people overide this?

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-16-2010, 07:31 AM

I think you need to look at this a little.

In M Mode with an A lens, yes you can shoot manual with A lenses, the EV meter works, and will show the exposure in +/- around the "Corect" level,

this is very useful for flash photography in deciding how much fill you want.

in automatic modes, there is no need for a meter because the camera is exposing correctly.

It will show exposure compensation however, but note Exposure compensation does not work in manual on the K10D (I think it is the only camera where you cannot do this)

Deiberson · 02-16-2010, 09:06 AM

right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new.

here's another one...
is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time?

**Lowell Goudge** · 02-16-2010, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by Deiberson

right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new.

the issue here is that on all pentax DLSRs there is no coupling to measure the position of the aperture ring to the camera. Pentax eliminated the need for this coupling with the A series lenses and compatible cameras that were introduced in 1983. Pentax retained the mechanical link well into the 1990's but deleted it for its latest film cameras and all digital cameras.

however, if you use the DOF preview (turn the on off switch past on) the metering is then activated and the lens is stopped down.

Quote:

here's another one...
is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time?

I personally hate the info on screen full time. My K7 is like this and I wish I could disable it.

It is too bright, and distroys night vision

egordon99 · 02-16-2010, 10:20 AM

Originally posted by Deiberson

right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new.

Of course you can control the exposure value (EV)..... YOU are in COMPLETE control of aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. Those THREE parameters are all you need to control ambient exposure.

JeffJS · 02-16-2010, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Deiberson

here's another one...
is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time?

To my knowledge, there is no way to leave it on all the time. It's an info screen only and would serve little purpose to taking the photo. Not like the Kx or the K7 that will show the active meter. The TOP screen will show you this info however.

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

I personally hate the info on screen full time. My K7 is like this and I wish I could disable it.

It is too bright, and distroys night vision

Press the INFO button until the screen goes blank.

noblepa · 02-16-2010, 12:33 PM

I think that the OP may be referring to EV Compensation, not simply EV metering.

To the OP, if that is what you are asking, think about it. In M mode, you are free to set the aperture, shutter and ISO any way you like. The purpose of EV Compensation is to override the camera's choice of exposure in one of the auto modes.

In P mode, for example, the camera chooses just about everything about the exposure. For various reasons, however, this may result in an image that is under or overexposed. EV Compensation lets you tell the camera to adjust the exposure up or down, in spite of what its meter is telling it. Since the camera does not control the exposure at all in M mode, there is no need to tell it to override anything. If the camera's meter suggests that 1/125 second at f/5.6 and ISO 200 is a "correct" exposure, that is only a suggestion. It will tell you that you are over/underexposing, compared to its suggestion, but the choice is entirely yours.

Even in the less automated modes, like Av (aperture priority) mode, you select the aperture and the camera chooses the "correct" shutter speed. Again, this may not result in an exposure to your liking. That's where EV Comp comes in.

In short, in M mode, there's nothing to compensate for. The camera's meter is as disconnected as if you were using a handheld, external light meter. The meter gives you a suggested starting point, but it is completely up to you whether you take that advice or not.

Marc Sabatella · 02-16-2010, 01:54 PM

I'm a little confused - are we talking only about manual lenses? Your original message didn't say anything about that. The differences between manual and auto lenses is one thing, the difference between the various exposures modes something else entirey, and the difference between the K-x and K10D somethign else still. So it's not clear what the question really is here.

But I'm taking it to mean, since EV *compensation* doesn't work in M mode, how do you control exposure? If so, the answer is, you control iut by changing shutter speed, apertur,e or ISO, just as in any other mode. It's just that others modes give you the "EV Compensation" button that says, "Mr. Camera, would you please change either aperture, shutter speed, or ISO for me", and in M mode, you simply pick one of the relevant parameters and change it yourself.

Deiberson · 02-17-2010, 06:23 AM

Originally posted by noblepa

I think that the OP may be referring to EV Compensation, not simply EV metering.

I would just like to be able to see where the EV meter is at when shooting in M. For example..If I'm shooting in the snow and want to shoot ev+1 or so, where can i see the meter to push up?

I know I changed a setting on my KX so when I press the green button, I see the meter in the finder. That's pretty much what I was looking for. But maybe I was confusing this with some of my A lenses.

As for the DOF preview...can someone explain this better to me? If I use the DOF preview...the lens stops down automatically to meter at "0"?
Still a bit nebulous on that feature.

Marc Sabatella · 02-17-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Deiberson

I would just like to be able to see where the EV meter is at when shooting in M.

The meter displays full time when using lenses that support autoexposure (eg, "A" series and later), but with manual aperture lenses, the meter can only display while the lens is stopped down - which is what the DOF preview does. As long as you hold the DOF preview lever (the ring around the shutter button), you can see the meter and make all the adjustments you want.

Quote:

For example..If I'm shooting in the snow and want to shoot ev+1 or so, where can i see the meter to push up?

No need for the DOF preview just to do that, though. Hit green button to set a shutter speed that zeroes the meter, then slow the shutter speed two or three clicks (depending on if you have it set to 1/2 stops or 1/3 stops). You can do this without actually seeing the meter. But if you'd like confirmation you did it correctly, the DOF preview does the trick with a manual lens. My impression is that very few people bother doing this, though - most simply use the Green button and adjust blindly.

Quote:

I know I changed a setting on my KX so when I press the green button, I see the meter in the finder.

Well, you must have configured it to grene button does DOF preview, which has the *side effect* of showing you the meter. But the actual function is DOF preview. And the K10D has a dedicated control for that - no need to double up on the Green button, which already serves the even more useful function of setting a shutter speed for you.

Quote:

As for the DOF preview...can someone explain this better to me? If I use the DOF preview...the lens stops down automatically to meter at "0"?

No, it stops down, period, to let you judge DOF, ads the name implies. It's just that while the lens is stopped down, it just so happens the camera is also nice enough to show you a meter reading. It doesn't automatically set it to 0 - it just displays the meter. It's the Green button that sets a shutter speed for you to zero the meter, but that doesn't actually show you the meter - you just have to trust that it did what it is supposed to do. It's just like on the K-x, except the specific buttons you use to access these two features differ because the K-x lacks a dedicated DOF preview button.

wasim_altaf · 02-17-2010, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by Deiberson

right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new.

Yes, I believe you can control EV comp in manual mode with M series lenses. However, do understand that in absence of aperture info, the camera doesn't meter to begin with, unless held wide open at all times. Hence the need for stop-down metering, at which point the camera gives a metered reading, making the "manual" mode somewhat automated (as the camera decides the shutter-speed for you). You should be able to dial-in EV-comp on top of that, should you need it -- some degree of EV-comp is needed for certain M-series lenses with stop-down metering inaccuracy, at least with my K20d (something to do with focusing screen, it's been reported).

pschlute · 02-18-2010, 04:56 AM

Wasim

The exposure compensation does not work in Manual exposure mode with the K10 with any lens.

This seems logical to me, as I am in Manual mode, so if I want more exposure I adjust it myself.

Gimbal · 02-18-2010, 07:34 AM

Although it would have been nice to have, especially since the camera notoriously underexpose at certain apertures with certain manual lenses. Add a little compensation and the green button would give a better starting point.

noblepa · 02-18-2010, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Gimbal

Although it would have been nice to have, especially since the camera notoriously underexpose at certain apertures with certain manual lenses. Add a little compensation and the green button would give a better starting point.

Why do you need EV Comp in manual mode? If you want to add one stop, just take the camera's recommended setting and open up one aperture stop or slow down one shutter speed stop. Simply consider the center point of the meter to be one hash-mark to the right. To underexpose by one stop use the hash-mark to the left.

The purpose of EV comp is to override the camera's choice in one of the auto modes. In manual mode, the camera does not control the exposure. You do. Its no different than if you were using a hand-held meter. When you transfer the hand-held meter's recommendation (and its only a recommendation, remember) to the camera, you are free to add or subtract a stop or two, or half, if you like.

I suppose that they could have made it work in manual mode. There's probably an argument to be made either way. I've been a software developer in the past, and there are often times when the developer (or camera designer) has to make a choice. Either choice will work, and either choice is going to disappoint half the user population. I think that this is one of those times. The Pentax camera designers made a choice to not have EV comp available in M mode. Many posters here seem to think that is the wrong choice, but it seems that just as many think it is the logical choice. Either way works and once you understand it, it seems to me that its no big deal.

Deiberson · 02-18-2010, 08:37 AM

interesting observation gimbal. i just noticed that underexposure today while taking pics of some students. i was wondering why the pics were so dark. then i came back and read this.....funny the way it is..

still hoping someone will take the time to explain the dof field process...and when and how they would use it.
should i post it in technique?

02-16-2010, 06:21 AM	#1
Deiberson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 734	k10d set up questions trying to move from my kx to k10. some of the settings are a little different. i have a few questions but i'll just ask 1 at a time until they are answered. i just read in the manual that the ev meter doesn't work in M, Green, or Bulb mode. so when i'm shooting in these modes how would i over or underexpose a shot? is there a way that people overide this?

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02-16-2010, 07:31 AM	#2
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	I think you need to look at this a little. In M Mode with an A lens, yes you can shoot manual with A lenses, the EV meter works, and will show the exposure in +/- around the "Corect" level, this is very useful for flash photography in deciding how much fill you want. in automatic modes, there is no need for a meter because the camera is exposing correctly. It will show exposure compensation however, but note Exposure compensation does not work in manual on the K10D (I think it is the only camera where you cannot do this)

02-16-2010, 09:06 AM	#3
Deiberson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 734 Original Poster	right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new. here's another one... is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time?

02-16-2010, 10:16 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by Deiberson right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new. the issue here is that on all pentax DLSRs there is no coupling to measure the position of the aperture ring to the camera. Pentax eliminated the need for this coupling with the A series lenses and compatible cameras that were introduced in 1983. Pentax retained the mechanical link well into the 1990's but deleted it for its latest film cameras and all digital cameras. however, if you use the DOF preview (turn the on off switch past on) the metering is then activated and the lens is stopped down. Quote: here's another one... is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time? I personally hate the info on screen full time. My K7 is like this and I wish I could disable it. It is too bright, and distroys night vision

02-16-2010, 10:20 AM	#5
egordon99 Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Outside of Philly Posts: 1,561	Originally posted by Deiberson right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new. Of course you can control the exposure value (EV)..... YOU are in COMPLETE control of aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. Those THREE parameters are all you need to control ambient exposure.

02-16-2010, 10:33 AM	#6
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Deiberson here's another one... is there a way to keep the lcd info screen on? my kx displays this all the time. its a feature i really like. however, on the k10 i only see a blank screen. when i press the "info button" i get the lcd to work but as soon as i press another dial or change a setting i loose the lcd. is there a setting that keeps the lcd on full time? To my knowledge, there is no way to leave it on all the time. It's an info screen only and would serve little purpose to taking the photo. Not like the Kx or the K7 that will show the active meter. The TOP screen will show you this info however. Originally posted by Lowell Goudge I personally hate the info on screen full time. My K7 is like this and I wish I could disable it. It is too bright, and distroys night vision Press the INFO button until the screen goes blank.

02-16-2010, 12:33 PM	#7
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	I think that the OP may be referring to EV Compensation, not simply EV metering. To the OP, if that is what you are asking, think about it. In M mode, you are free to set the aperture, shutter and ISO any way you like. The purpose of EV Compensation is to override the camera's choice of exposure in one of the auto modes. In P mode, for example, the camera chooses just about everything about the exposure. For various reasons, however, this may result in an image that is under or overexposed. EV Compensation lets you tell the camera to adjust the exposure up or down, in spite of what its meter is telling it. Since the camera does not control the exposure at all in M mode, there is no need to tell it to override anything. If the camera's meter suggests that 1/125 second at f/5.6 and ISO 200 is a "correct" exposure, that is only a suggestion. It will tell you that you are over/underexposing, compared to its suggestion, but the choice is entirely yours. Even in the less automated modes, like Av (aperture priority) mode, you select the aperture and the camera chooses the "correct" shutter speed. Again, this may not result in an exposure to your liking. That's where EV Comp comes in. In short, in M mode, there's nothing to compensate for. The camera's meter is as disconnected as if you were using a handheld, external light meter. The meter gives you a suggested starting point, but it is completely up to you whether you take that advice or not.

02-16-2010, 01:54 PM	#8
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	I'm a little confused - are we talking only about manual lenses? Your original message didn't say anything about that. The differences between manual and auto lenses is one thing, the difference between the various exposures modes something else entirey, and the difference between the K-x and K10D somethign else still. So it's not clear what the question really is here. But I'm taking it to mean, since EV compensation doesn't work in M mode, how do you control exposure? If so, the answer is, you control iut by changing shutter speed, apertur,e or ISO, just as in any other mode. It's just that others modes give you the "EV Compensation" button that says, "Mr. Camera, would you please change either aperture, shutter speed, or ISO for me", and in M mode, you simply pick one of the relevant parameters and change it yourself.

02-17-2010, 06:23 AM	#9
Deiberson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 734 Original Poster	Originally posted by noblepa I think that the OP may be referring to EV Compensation, not simply EV metering. I would just like to be able to see where the EV meter is at when shooting in M. For example..If I'm shooting in the snow and want to shoot ev+1 or so, where can i see the meter to push up? I know I changed a setting on my KX so when I press the green button, I see the meter in the finder. That's pretty much what I was looking for. But maybe I was confusing this with some of my A lenses. As for the DOF preview...can someone explain this better to me? If I use the DOF preview...the lens stops down automatically to meter at "0"? Still a bit nebulous on that feature.

02-17-2010, 11:28 AM	#10
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Deiberson I would just like to be able to see where the EV meter is at when shooting in M. The meter displays full time when using lenses that support autoexposure (eg, "A" series and later), but with manual aperture lenses, the meter can only display while the lens is stopped down - which is what the DOF preview does. As long as you hold the DOF preview lever (the ring around the shutter button), you can see the meter and make all the adjustments you want. Quote: For example..If I'm shooting in the snow and want to shoot ev+1 or so, where can i see the meter to push up? No need for the DOF preview just to do that, though. Hit green button to set a shutter speed that zeroes the meter, then slow the shutter speed two or three clicks (depending on if you have it set to 1/2 stops or 1/3 stops). You can do this without actually seeing the meter. But if you'd like confirmation you did it correctly, the DOF preview does the trick with a manual lens. My impression is that very few people bother doing this, though - most simply use the Green button and adjust blindly. Quote: I know I changed a setting on my KX so when I press the green button, I see the meter in the finder. Well, you must have configured it to grene button does DOF preview, which has the side effect of showing you the meter. But the actual function is DOF preview. And the K10D has a dedicated control for that - no need to double up on the Green button, which already serves the even more useful function of setting a shutter speed for you. Quote: As for the DOF preview...can someone explain this better to me? If I use the DOF preview...the lens stops down automatically to meter at "0"? No, it stops down, period, to let you judge DOF, ads the name implies. It's just that while the lens is stopped down, it just so happens the camera is also nice enough to show you a meter reading. It doesn't automatically set it to 0 - it just displays the meter. It's the Green button that sets a shutter speed for you to zero the meter, but that doesn't actually show you the meter - you just have to trust that it did what it is supposed to do. It's just like on the K-x, except the specific buttons you use to access these two features differ because the K-x lacks a dedicated DOF preview button.

02-17-2010, 01:50 PM	#11
wasim_altaf Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Salem, MA Posts: 145	Originally posted by Deiberson right. that was my question...so in full manual mode, with an M series lens and a k10, i cannot control the EV? at this point in my photography...that makes little sense. but i'm still new. Yes, I believe you can control EV comp in manual mode with M series lenses. However, do understand that in absence of aperture info, the camera doesn't meter to begin with, unless held wide open at all times. Hence the need for stop-down metering, at which point the camera gives a metered reading, making the "manual" mode somewhat automated (as the camera decides the shutter-speed for you). You should be able to dial-in EV-comp on top of that, should you need it -- some degree of EV-comp is needed for certain M-series lenses with stop-down metering inaccuracy, at least with my K20d (something to do with focusing screen, it's been reported).

02-18-2010, 04:56 AM	#12
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,198	Wasim The exposure compensation does not work in Manual exposure mode with the K10 with any lens. This seems logical to me, as I am in Manual mode, so if I want more exposure I adjust it myself.

02-18-2010, 07:34 AM	#13
Gimbal Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,106	Although it would have been nice to have, especially since the camera notoriously underexpose at certain apertures with certain manual lenses. Add a little compensation and the green button would give a better starting point.

02-18-2010, 08:28 AM	#14
noblepa Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bay Village, Ohio USA Posts: 1,142	Originally posted by Gimbal Although it would have been nice to have, especially since the camera notoriously underexpose at certain apertures with certain manual lenses. Add a little compensation and the green button would give a better starting point. Why do you need EV Comp in manual mode? If you want to add one stop, just take the camera's recommended setting and open up one aperture stop or slow down one shutter speed stop. Simply consider the center point of the meter to be one hash-mark to the right. To underexpose by one stop use the hash-mark to the left. The purpose of EV comp is to override the camera's choice in one of the auto modes. In manual mode, the camera does not control the exposure. You do. Its no different than if you were using a hand-held meter. When you transfer the hand-held meter's recommendation (and its only a recommendation, remember) to the camera, you are free to add or subtract a stop or two, or half, if you like. I suppose that they could have made it work in manual mode. There's probably an argument to be made either way. I've been a software developer in the past, and there are often times when the developer (or camera designer) has to make a choice. Either choice will work, and either choice is going to disappoint half the user population. I think that this is one of those times. The Pentax camera designers made a choice to not have EV comp available in M mode. Many posters here seem to think that is the wrong choice, but it seems that just as many think it is the logical choice. Either way works and once you understand it, it seems to me that its no big deal.

02-18-2010, 08:37 AM	#15
Deiberson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Photos: Albums Posts: 734 Original Poster	interesting observation gimbal. i just noticed that underexposure today while taking pics of some students. i was wondering why the pics were so dark. then i came back and read this.....funny the way it is.. still hoping someone will take the time to explain the dof field process...and when and how they would use it. should i post it in technique?