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03-05-2010, 08:07 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
I am considering buying a Kx. I currently shoot with the K20d, and love the camera. It serves me especially well with landscape shots. But, for the Kx, I had other plans. I wanted to utilize its high ISO ability, not just for indoor, low light shots, but for subjects outdoors which are moving. And this brings me to my area of concern and purpose for this thread.
IMO, I think the K20D is pretty good on high iso and the Kx is about 1 stop better..
I would probably wait for the next Pentax dslr to come
( the rumoured K-5 or whatever it is) to have more options since its already summer maybe a month from now it will be announced
But on the other hand the Kx is really a great deal considering the price.

03-05-2010, 08:23 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote

If you had to qualitatively rate the improved ISO performance of the Kx over the K20, what would you say it is: using "stops." Thanks--this post too is excellent
My personal feeling is that, qualitatively, I was willing to use ISOs up to 1250 in good light with the K20D and up to about 400 in poor light. This is due to the K20D's noise characteristics in the shadows. I pretty much used high ISO to get fast shutter speeds shooting with telephotos in decent light, and if the light was poor I put it on a tripod, generally.

I'm willing to go up to 4500 in good light and regularly use ISO 1250 and 1600 in poor light with the K-x, occasionally going to 2500 in a pinch. ISO 1250 files in crappy lighting at base exposure and tone curve from the K-x are definitely a bit noisier than ISO 400 files from the K20D at the same settings, but I almost never output the base exposure with the base tone curve. I work with my files a lot. And the K-x data gives me what I need to work with and still make it look good, while the K20D's just doesn't.

So qualitatively, for me, that's 1 1/3 stop advantage in good light (few shadows in the exposure) and 2-2 2/3 stop advantage in crappy light (most of the exposure in the shadows).
03-05-2010, 11:49 AM   #33
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QuoteQuote:
Khardur: I don't have the K20D or the Kx.

But your question was about shooting outdoor subjects which are moving. Shake reduction will not help freeze moving subjects. So I'm guessing the idea is to use the K-x at higher ISO's (that on the K20D aren't available or maybe would be unusable noise?) so you can get faster shutter speeds to freeze action. So I would say if the K-x is that much better high ISO to noise ratio then it's probably a good choice.
My original post is about the higher ISO capabilities of the Kx, whether or not they are enough better than the K20d to warrant me buying the Kx body as well. Obviously, SR does not freeze moving objects--nobody here implied it did.

I am trying to get,
QuoteQuote:
from people who shoot with these cameras
, an assessment of just how much better the high ISO is in the Kx. Everyone acknowledges the Kx pics look better at higher ISO--no debating that. But it is also a fact the Kx employs a much more aggressive noise reduction in camera, at the loss of some detail. Also, the Kx produces 12mp images, vs 14.5mp images. The Kx is getting the most out of its in-body, image processor, leaving little, if any, headroom in post processing.
03-05-2010, 11:52 AM   #34
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Rustnail925: IMO, I think the K20D is pretty good on high iso and the Kx is about 1 stop better..
I would probably wait for the next Pentax dslr to come
( the rumoured K-5 or whatever it is) to have more options since its already summer maybe a month from now it will be announced
But on the other hand the Kx is really a great deal considering the price.
This is precisely the kind of feedback I was hoping to get--Thank you! I have to agree with your assessment here. But I have to make this call, having not shot with the Kx for myself. Reading through this thread, and looking closely at actual pics from the Kx has lead me to the same conclusion you post here--thanks again.

The Kx is a great camera and fantastic value for sure. But I am going to wait for the next Pentax body, hoping it brings pro-like body, along with even better high ISO performance than the Kx.

03-05-2010, 11:58 AM   #35
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er1kksen: My personal feeling is that, qualitatively, I was willing to use ISOs up to 1250 in good light with the K20D and up to about 400 in poor light. This is due to the K20D's noise characteristics in the shadows. I pretty much used high ISO to get fast shutter speeds shooting with telephotos in decent light, and if the light was poor I put it on a tripod, generally.

I'm willing to go up to 4500 in good light and regularly use ISO 1250 and 1600 in poor light with the K-x, occasionally going to 2500 in a pinch. ISO 1250 files in crappy lighting at base exposure and tone curve from the K-x are definitely a bit noisier than ISO 400 files from the K20D at the same settings, but I almost never output the base exposure with the base tone curve. I work with my files a lot. And the K-x data gives me what I need to work with and still make it look good, while the K20D's just doesn't.

So qualitatively, for me, that's 1 1/3 stop advantage in good light (few shadows in the exposure) and 2-2 2/3 stop advantage in crappy light (most of the exposure in the shadows).
Excellent post--thank you very much. This is an objective opinion from a user of both bodies. Your rating of the Kx might be a bit higher than some others, but you clearly state and support your findings. This helps me a lot.
03-05-2010, 12:37 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
Excellent post--thank you very much. This is an objective opinion from a user of both bodies. Your rating of the Kx might be a bit higher than some others, but you clearly state and support your findings. This helps me a lot.
Yes, I do seem to often be on the far end of the K20D vs. K-x argument. I'm just here to report what I experience, though. I have several hundred ISO 1250 files from a poorly lit show last night to go through right now, and I just can't imagine getting as many keepers with the K20D. Sometimes my "radical" opinions even earn me some flames from people who disagree with me.

Of course, it's never anywhere near as bad as when I try to tell people on the Canon forums that the K20D (not to mention their own 50D) sensor is actually a better low-light performer than the one in their venerated 40D... it's always those 100% crops.
03-05-2010, 07:46 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
The Kx is a great camera and fantastic value for sure. But I am going to wait for the next Pentax body, hoping it brings pro-like body, along with even better high ISO performance than the Kx.
I've been shooting mostly with the K-x lately but last weekend I was shooting with it and the K20D. I mistakenly left the K20D at ISO800 after shooting in a heavily shadowed area and everything in the sunlight has shadow noise that the K-x just has at around ISO4000 in good light. I'm spoilt with the K-x now.
03-05-2010, 08:06 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
.... I won't say that the K-x is a better camera than the K20D (that will p*ss too many people off) but to my mind it's a better photographic tool. I can shoot in more varied light and get more keepers than when shooting with the K20D.

Everyone seems to go on and on about build and WR, ok the build of the K-x might not be as robust as the K20D but it's far cheaper and it's build to do the job, it's a great compromise IMO. WR might be worth its weight in gold for some but for me and where I live it's a non-issue.
*raises a mousy hand*

to my mind it's a better photographic tool
Glad to see someone coming right out and saying this :P My K10 may have been 2 times the camera that the K-x is, but I'm getting about 5 times as many 'keeper' shots out of the K-x....and isn't that what we're all working towards? Maximum excellent or pleasing photographs?

03-05-2010, 09:20 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ecaterin Quote
*raises a mousy hand*

to my mind it's a better photographic tool
Glad to see someone coming right out and saying this :P My K10 may have been 2 times the camera that the K-x is, but I'm getting about 5 times as many 'keeper' shots out of the K-x....and isn't that what we're all working towards? Maximum excellent or pleasing photographs?
The K-x and 35LTD are a great combo ;-)
03-05-2010, 10:40 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
The K-x and 35LTD are a great combo ;-)
To say I'm excited is an understatement
03-05-2010, 10:47 PM   #41
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QuoteQuote:
distudio: I've been shooting mostly with the K-x lately but last weekend I was shooting with it and the K20D. I mistakenly left the K20D at ISO800 after shooting in a heavily shadowed area and everything in the sunlight has shadow noise that the K-x just has at around ISO4000 in good light. I'm spoilt with the K-x now.
Well, now we are talking over 2 stops in favor of the Kx, supporting the finds of "er1kksen." The thread is taking a sudden turn in favor of my purchasing the Kx.

Is it possible for you to post a link to a %100 shot @ ISO 4000, to support this? I can PM you with an e-mail address, to which you could upload a shot @ full size. The reason I am requesting this is because I downloaded "edhombre's" %100 shot @ ISO 4500, and there is not way it is as good as the K20d @ ISO 800--it is shot in low-light too.

If what you and "er1kksen" say are supported in a %100 shot, I will have to buy the Kx--that is simply too much performance to turn down. But I am yet to see any definitve proof for my own eyes.

Is anyone willing to e-mail me a full-sized shot at or around ISO 4500?
03-06-2010, 05:13 AM   #42
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I think you are having CBA
just hold on for a couple of months..
Or you could get a D90 for almost the same iso or maybe half stop lower than kx but with faster AF and focus assist lamp plus a couple of cheap primes
03-06-2010, 01:37 PM   #43
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Rustynail925: I think you are having CBA
just hold on for a couple of months..
Or you could get a D90 for almost the same iso or maybe half stop lower than kx but with faster AF and focus assist lamp plus a couple of cheap primes
Sure, some on-line buddy you turn out to be!!! First, you lead me out of the darkness with this astute observation:
QuoteQuote:
I think you are having CBA, just hold on for a couple of months.
This was an excellent move, shaming me back to reality with common sense. BUT

Then, in a cruel counterbalancing act, you send me this enticing thought:
QuoteQuote:
Or you could get a D90 for almost the same ISO or maybe half stop lower than Kx but with faster AF and focus assist lamp plus a couple of cheap primes
So, now I am sent reeling back into a state of CBA confliction once again. What kind of a stabilizing force are you anyway. I am actually heading off to see what I can buy the D90 for--isn't this just wonderful!

Just wait until I see you reeling from the powerful effects of CBA/LBA in a thread--I'll step right in and throw you for a loop too!

No wonder you go by the "Rustnail925" ---your words induce tetanus.
03-06-2010, 05:00 PM   #44
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I almost used the K-x today for a Pro shoot and didn't and decided on my K20D...Why? Because of the lack of AF Led in the viewfinder. I sooooo wish it had that provision.
03-06-2010, 07:28 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jewelltrail Quote
I am actually heading off to see what I can buy the D90 for--isn't this just wonderful!

Just wait until I see you reeling from the powerful effects of CBA/LBA in a thread--I'll step right in and throw you for a loop too!
I was actually thinking of the Nikon D90 due to Pentax horrible AF hunting in low light on my K200D and an improvement on high iso plus options for some cheap primes w/c is under $500. Pentax doesnt offer that too..
That being said, if you are happy with the K20D's AF in low light you dont need the D90
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