Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-01-2010, 07:16 AM   #46
Veteran Member
ghelary's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 617
QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
I don't know so much.

In my dealings with people I have often discussed their needs and wants with regards to consumer electronic products.

What I have noticed is an even more prevalent trend then what I even expected.

That is that people are so sick of custom batteries that not only do they boycott them they simply don't bother buying anything.

Their past experiences have disappointed them so much they just don't buy the products at all any more.

Instead they spend their disposable incomes on zero maintenance items like pay tv etc.

Ask `Joe Consumer'.
Do you have a camcorder? `No, I got sick of the batteries dieing & they were always expensive and hard to find. Every model seems to take a different battery. Why do they do that? '.

Ask a person what they do when the battery in their mobile phone dies? Nine out of ten people will most likely answer, `we throw the phone away and buy a new phone'. They don't even bother to price a battery.

Ask a person what are the things they hate the most in consumer electronics.
Most will answer expensive weird shaped batteries that they can never find replacements for and printer ink cartridges.

AA's are a good universal format. Pentax realises this and that's why they make cameras that take them.

Now all they need to do is take this one step further and incorporate 14500 AA Li-Ion support to keep both sides of the fence happy.

.-.-.
To me this thread simply don't belong to this forum, this should be moved under the DSLR discussion forum. There is nothing new, in particular, new batteries format have been highlighted in every review of the K7.

I'm not too happy either of this, but you could have said the same thing about the camera grip and every other accessory (focusing screen) that fit in the K10D / K20D and not in the K7

I have both the K10D and K20D and those are a strong argument for me against buying the K7. However if they retain the same form factor and accerories for the successor of the K7 I may make the move and buy 2 replacement cameras.

For the moment, I'm happy with my existing gear and I won't complain about the change, it was more a happy surprise when the K20D and the K10D used the same batteries than an expectation.

If we start complaining about such things, then we can start complaining about brand using proprietary lens mounts....

03-01-2010, 09:59 AM   #47
Junior Member
carpediem007's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Eilat, Israel
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 46
QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote

Ask a person what are the things they hate the most in consumer electronics.
Most will answer expensive weird shaped batteries that they can never find replacements for and printer ink cartridges...

.-.-.
HaHaHa...

Look what I did last week...

Welcome to InkWasters.com

Cheers,
Michael

Last edited by carpediem007; 03-01-2010 at 10:13 AM.
03-01-2010, 11:10 AM   #48
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
In my dealings with people I have often discussed their needs and wants with regards to consumer electronic products.

What I have noticed is an even more prevalent trend then what I even expected.

That is that people are so sick of custom batteries that not only do they boycott them they simply don't bother buying anything.

Their past experiences have disappointed them so much they just don't buy the products at all any more.

Instead they spend their disposable incomes on zero maintenance items like pay tv etc.
I think this is without question a case of either your asking the question that gets you the answer you want to hear, or perhaps surrounding yourself with a circle of friends who think the same way you do.

If you were right, the K-x would be selling like hotcakes, as would the K-m before it, because they're the only DSLR models to offer non-proprietary batteries. Likewise, the compact world (where it's still fairly easy to find an AA or AAA-based camera) would find sales dominated by those models.

Thing is, if you look at the sales figures, they don't remotely back up your gut feeling. As I said, for most people it's a non-issue. For compact cameras, they buy the product with bundled battery, and *maybe* buy one extra battery at purchase time, then it generally serves them for what they consider to be the useful lifetime of the product. Even for more expensive items like DSLRs, the consumer has spoken out (through sales figures) in favor of custom batteries.

I have a feeling you won't be dissuaded from your belief, but equally I don't think you'll be able to refute the fact that even though there are cameras that do offer the choice you think consumers most desire, they are still outsold by cameras that fail to offer the choice.
03-01-2010, 11:51 AM   #49
Junior Member
carpediem007's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Eilat, Israel
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 46
QuoteOriginally posted by knoxploration Quote
Even for more expensive items like DSLRs, the consumer has spoken out (through sales figures) in favor of custom batteries.

I have a feeling you won't be dissuaded from your belief, but equally I don't think you'll be able to refute the fact that even though there are cameras that do offer the choice you think consumers most desire, they are still outsold by cameras that fail to offer the choice.
Sorry, but what sort of a comparison is that???

Cameras with custom batteries outsold cameras with "regular" batteries and that for you is proof of customers favoring custom batteries??? WTF???

What's the ratio of "custom battery cameras" to "regular battery cameras"?
1000 to 1?

And that of course means many times more "custom battery cameras" are sold than others.

I for one buy those "custom battery cameras" because I don't have a choice. Image quality, ruggedness and other specs are much more important to me than the battery used. But if I had the choice between buying the same camera with regular batteries or custom ones, I'd definitely buy the regular one.

Even a company like Canon that loves to sell different accessories/batteries with every new EOS reaching the market makes an AA insert for their 5D Mark II battery grip... (Just like Pentax used to not too long ago).

Well, anyways [sic] I'm happy for Pentax to have customers like you and the people you surround yourself with...
Perhaps that does mean, their prosperous future is safe...

Best,
Michael

03-01-2010, 12:12 PM   #50
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Photos: Albums
Posts: 842
QuoteOriginally posted by carpediem007 Quote
Sorry, but what sort of a comparison is that???

Cameras with custom batteries outsold cameras with "regular" batteries and that for you is proof of customers favoring custom batteries??? WTF???
He made a totally unsubstantiated claim that "people are so sick of custom batteries that not only do they boycott them they simply don't bother buying anything". I pointed out that if his claim were true and people were boycotting li-ion based cameras, that would be reflected by lower sales of li-ion cameras than AA cameras. In actual fact, AA cameras are vastly outsold by li-ion cameras.

QuoteQuote:
What's the ratio of "custom battery cameras" to "regular battery cameras"?
1000 to 1?

And that of course means many times more "custom battery cameras" are sold than others.
It only means that if one isn't claiming that the battery type alone causes people to boycott the products and refuse to buy anything at all (which is nonsense).

QuoteQuote:
I for one buy those "custom battery cameras" because I don't have a choice. Image quality, ruggedness and other specs are much more important to me than the battery used. But if I had the choice between buying the same camera with regular batteries or custom ones, I'd definitely buy the regular one.
You specifically may not have a choice. Customers buying an entry-level camera do have a choice. The K-x is at the very least a pretty clear equal of direct rival models from Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Sony in terms of specs, features and image quality, not to mention pricing (and quite possibly better in certain areas). If people were really so offput by li-ion packs, then the K-x should be showing significantly higher sales than the equivalent DSLRs from Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Sony. It's certainly doing well for Pentax, but not better than its rivals.

Likewise, there are plenty of cameras in the compact camera world that are near-identical except for the choice of AA / custom batteries, and the AA cameras don't vastly outsell the custom-battery models.

QuoteQuote:
Even a company like Canon that loves to sell different accessories/batteries with every new EOS reaching the market makes an AA insert for their 5D Mark II battery grip... (Just like Pentax used to not too long ago).
"Used to"? Pentax still does sell a grip with AA insert. As I've already stated in this thread, I have one myself. As I've also stated in this thread, it's nice to have - as an absolute last-gasp backup when there's no alternative. Which is likely why Canon offers one as well. That doesn't magically make AAs better. I'm pretty confident that if you look at sales of AA grips by either Canon or Pentax, you'll find that sales are only a small proportion of the body sales (likely less than 25%). Again, if AAs were so desperately coveted by the average photographer, sales of the grips would be vastly higher just to get the AA capabilities.

Last edited by knoxploration; 03-01-2010 at 12:13 PM. Reason: Clarified...
03-01-2010, 03:06 PM   #51
Veteran Member
Shashinki's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Norway
Posts: 357
I wonder if people really believe Pentax makes the batteries used in their cameras themselves.

Anyone notice that the D-Li50 (K10/20D) is the exactly same battery as the Sigma BP-21 (SD14) or Minolta NP-400 (DiMAGE A1/2)

I guess they (Pentax) thought that asking their battery supplier to custom-make a identical battery with higher capacity would be too high a price to pay.

And that would probably have made the camera alot more expensive for you to purchase. The money you've spent on new extra batteries would essentially have been spent on the around USD100 extra the K-7 would have cost you.

Would they have sold less cameras if it cost 100 bucks more I wonder....

Last edited by Shashinki; 03-01-2010 at 03:16 PM.
03-01-2010, 04:03 PM   #52
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 499
QuoteOriginally posted by Cideway Quote
My thinking is that the third contact could be an earth as we now have a camera body made out of conductive magnesium instead of non conductive plastic.
'Round these parts we call it a ground.

Seriously, though, you (@ OP) have no idea just how good you have it. For about $40, you get a battery that provides hundreds of photos on a single charge, and then, you recharge it and get hundreds more! AND, you get to do this countless times! Back in the old days, a friend of mine had a Canon AE-1 Program, which used a (at the time) proprietary battery that in inflation-adjusted dollars, was MORE expensive than today's Li-Ion rechargeables. Every year or so when the battery died, you got to throw it away and buy another one! Now THAT's getting hosed!
03-01-2010, 04:36 PM   #53
Senior Member




Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 141
QuoteOriginally posted by vk4akp Quote
There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]).
Excellent idea.

03-02-2010, 06:06 AM   #54
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 15,744
It is funny to me how strongly people feel about AA batteries, either one way or another. Personally, I was glad to get rid of them when I moved to the K10. The rechargeables do last a really long time and it isn't expensive to get a couple of off brand ones to keep in your bag. Sure, it does mean planning ahead a little, but it requires planning ahead to remember to take your equipment and lenses along too.
03-02-2010, 09:45 PM   #55
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,133
If Pentax comes up with a dual battery system, then great, but I for one would not want them to get rid of the battery packs.

I can't possibly agree with the thought of using just AA batteries with my K20 or K10, particularly during an on-site shoot. As ideal as many might think this is, I could not fathom swapping out 6 AA batteries every time my camera needed more juice 2-4 times a night, plus the 4xAA my flash needs to operate. Considering I've come close to draining both battery packs on my K20 during one evening of shooting, plus 20-30 AA batteries for my flash... I would have to carry a 50 pack to get me through the night.

Yes - I tried the rechargeables... carried 32 of them and killed them in less than 6 months of heavy use. It's one reason why my next flash purchase must be a flash that uses battery packs, not just AAs.

And as far as using the 14500 higher voltage AAs - these are industrial batteries not meant for standard electronics use. Imagine introducing a higher voltage battery the same size as standard batteries. How long before someone puts them on their remotes, flash lights, etc and blows out the electronics due to double the voltage?

Edit: Just found a price for those 14500 batteries... 5-7 dollars each, depending on the quantity purchased. The MSDS sheet for them is quite scary.

Last edited by George Lama; 03-02-2010 at 09:54 PM.
03-03-2010, 12:11 AM   #56
Damn Brit
Guest




Moved to 'Other Pentax-Related Topics'.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
batteries, camera, dslr, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thematic Gimme your Graveyards casil403 Mini-Challenges, Games, and Photo Stories 183 01-24-2017 07:00 PM
Gimme Somethin Wide! ManixZero Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 10 06-16-2009 01:50 PM
The FA 35 f/2, gimme shots jsherman999 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 41 02-15-2009 04:00 PM
Gimme some Grain! germar Pentax Film SLR Discussion 32 08-03-2008 11:17 PM
The K110D is a gimme right now Photodan Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 01-11-2007 11:25 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:18 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top