new batteries? gimme a break!

Nass · 02-19-2010, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by braver

As much as I love Pentax, fanboys without real info can get annoying as well. I do appreciate K10D and love the K-7 already. Now if you're loyal to a brand, you have to ask, why is the brand not loyal to you -- would it have been difficult to keep the form factor for the batteries? What are the decisions to make them compatible? I submit it's a rumor that everybody in this game wants to make you buy new batteries. There's no reason most of Li-Ion batteries cannot be standardized. However, they're kept in different form factors so you'd need accessories for them. Just something to think about. What I would like is an explanation from Pentax as to why was it necessary. That's all. Now I'll ask more questions in its own forum. Peace!

I think this is a fair point.

I wouldn't expect an explanation, but it does seem a money-making gimmick.

Cideway · 02-19-2010, 06:31 PM

My thinking is that the third contact could be an earth as we now have a camera body made out of conductive magnesium instead of non conductive plastic.

Nubi · 02-19-2010, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Jasvox

You got a brand new K-7 today and all you can do is complain about something as silly as compatibility with the K10D's battery?

Can you perhaps maybe appreciate what the K-7 now offers you?

Jason

P.S. Maybe this should be moved to another section as this is neither news or rumor.

He also complained about pre school, I think.

Wheatfield · 02-19-2010, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by carpediem007

I might understand that power requirements have changed, but there should be a way to agree on one "form factor"...

Changing the form factor is the only way they have of making sure that we are using support equipment that is (at least in theory) optimized for the product.

George Lama · 02-19-2010, 08:33 PM

It's not just voltage but amperage.
D-LI50 provides 1620 mAh @ 7.4V - That's 12 Watts of power
D-LI90 provides 1860 mAh @ 7.2V - That's 13.4 Watts of power

It's the same concept as car batteries - they all function on a 12V system, but Cold Cranking Amperage ratings and sizes vary. Would you want your Hummer H3 powered by the same battery that runs a Fiat Uno?

Also, based on these numbers the D-LI90 should generate less heat during heavy usage than the D-LI50 as it also has less resistance.

Simply put Pentax needed a more powerful battery and sought one that fit the bill. After all, as others pointed out, the K7 has video capabilities that would probably kill a single D-LI50 in a short time.

TheTenaciousOne · 02-20-2010, 08:19 AM

And this is part of the news and rumor forum how?

reeftool · 02-20-2010, 08:51 AM

Complaints about batterys valid. There is no reason at all that batterys for electronic devices can't be made compatible to be used in many different products. While many will claim that batterys lower the "carbon footprint", the chemicals used in the manufacture of them are extremely hazardous. Most end up in landfills where they slowly leak into the ground water and will raise pollution levels for years to come. I am very surprised that there hasn't been some sort of standards enacted to reduce the amount the amount of batterys being consumed and disposed of.

krypticide · 02-20-2010, 10:47 AM

I don't think anyone pointed this out, but the handgrip on the K-7 has changed quite a bit (and very favorably IMHO) compared to the K20D. Given the new shape, the battery had to be slimmed down. For me, I'd rather have the better grip shape than trying to have backward compatibility with old batteries, which degrade over time anyway.

m8o · 02-20-2010, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

P.S. Maybe this should be moved to another section as this is neither news or rumor.

In all honesty, this is news to me. No, I don't live in a cave. But I also do agree it doesn't belong in the News & Rumors section.

Heck, I once got "one demerit" applied to me for a thread I started in here that I thought was closer to this subject matter, but was moved by a mod who must have been cranky that day and got tired of moving threads and started dishing out demerits for them.

(which soon got reversed by our fearless leader Adam)

Jasvox · 02-26-2010, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by m8o

In all honesty, this is news to me. No, I don't live in a cave. But I also do agree it doesn't belong in the News & Rumors section.

Heck, I once got "one demerit" applied to me for a thread I started in here that I thought was closer to this subject matter, but was moved by a mod who must have been cranky that day and got tired of moving threads and started dishing out demerits for them.

(which soon got reversed by our fearless leader Adam)

No harm, no foul I suppose...seems to be very fashionable lately for things to be oddly placed within this forum.

Jason

vk4akp · 03-01-2010, 12:18 AM

This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered!

There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]).

Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots.

Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available.

.-.-.

knoxploration · 03-01-2010, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by vk4akp

This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered!

Realistically it can't be that many, or the K-x wouldn't be the only current DSLR from *any* manufacturer on the market which takes AA batteries without requiring an external portrait grip to do so.

Truth be told, this is a non-issue for most people.

Quote:

There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]).

Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots.

Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available.

The issue is likely down to a combination of packaging and ease of use. AA batteries have lower energy density than lithium-ion cells, which means heavier, bulkier camera bodies. Take a look at the K-x - although Pentax has done a fairly good job of keeping size down, it is (with batteries loaded) among the heaviest couple of cameras in its class - only Nikon has an offering near the same weight. Loaded and ready to go (except for a lens), all of the competing cameras from Canon, Olympus and Sony are significantly lighter, and Nikon also has noticeably lighter models. By way of comparison, the K-x with batteries in is about halfway between a Canon Rebel-class camera and Pentax's own prosumer K-7.

AA's are also not as easy to change in a rush or in dim light, requiring you to fiddle around with multiple cells, making sure each is the right way around. Changing the batteries on a K-x without setting anything down requires you to hold the camera plus eight batteries at once, keeping track of what's what and where it's headed - as compared to handling just two batteries that can only be inserted one way around in every other DSLR out there.

Don't get me wrong - I like having the option of AAs as a last-resort backup myself, personally. It's part of why I bought the K-7's battery grip. I just feel that custom cells win hands-down for my own purposes, and the fact that almost the entire DSLR market has migrated to them suggests they're probably the best choice for most users' purposes, as well.

LeDave · 03-01-2010, 02:09 AM

I just recently ordered a 1400MAH 7.2v D LI90 off evilBay for 9.89 shipped from California. Not bad at all, especially since I ordered the DX grip also to try it on.

Wheatfield · 03-01-2010, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by vk4akp

This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered!

There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]).

Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots.

Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available.

.-.-.

I have no wish whatsoever to go back to the battery hell that was the *istD.

vk4akp · 03-01-2010, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by knoxploration

Truth be told, this is a non-issue for most people.

I don't know so much.

In my dealings with people I have often discussed their needs and wants with regards to consumer electronic products.

What I have noticed is an even more prevalent trend then what I even expected.

That is that people are so sick of custom batteries that not only do they boycott them they simply don't bother buying anything.

Their past experiences have disappointed them so much they just don't buy the products at all any more.

Instead they spend their disposable incomes on zero maintenance items like pay tv etc.

Ask `Joe Consumer'.
Do you have a camcorder? `No, I got sick of the batteries dieing & they were always expensive and hard to find. Every model seems to take a different battery. Why do they do that?

'.

Ask a person what they do when the battery in their mobile phone dies? Nine out of ten people will most likely answer, `we throw the phone away and buy a new phone'. They don't even bother to price a battery.

Ask a person what are the things they hate the most in consumer electronics.
Most will answer expensive weird shaped batteries that they can never find replacements for and printer ink cartridges.

AA's are a good universal format. Pentax realises this and that's why they make cameras that take them.

Now all they need to do is take this one step further and incorporate 14500 AA Li-Ion support to keep both sides of the fence happy.

.-.-.

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02-19-2010, 03:57 PM	#31
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	Originally posted by braver As much as I love Pentax, fanboys without real info can get annoying as well. I do appreciate K10D and love the K-7 already. Now if you're loyal to a brand, you have to ask, why is the brand not loyal to you -- would it have been difficult to keep the form factor for the batteries? What are the decisions to make them compatible? I submit it's a rumor that everybody in this game wants to make you buy new batteries. There's no reason most of Li-Ion batteries cannot be standardized. However, they're kept in different form factors so you'd need accessories for them. Just something to think about. What I would like is an explanation from Pentax as to why was it necessary. That's all. Now I'll ask more questions in its own forum. Peace! I think this is a fair point. I wouldn't expect an explanation, but it does seem a money-making gimmick.

02-19-2010, 06:31 PM	#32
Cideway Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Adelaide, South Australia, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 364	My thinking is that the third contact could be an earth as we now have a camera body made out of conductive magnesium instead of non conductive plastic.

02-19-2010, 06:54 PM	#33
Nubi Guest	Originally posted by Jasvox You got a brand new K-7 today and all you can do is complain about something as silly as compatibility with the K10D's battery? Can you perhaps maybe appreciate what the K-7 now offers you? Jason P.S. Maybe this should be moved to another section as this is neither news or rumor. He also complained about pre school, I think.

02-19-2010, 08:08 PM	#34
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by carpediem007 I might understand that power requirements have changed, but there should be a way to agree on one "form factor"... Changing the form factor is the only way they have of making sure that we are using support equipment that is (at least in theory) optimized for the product.

02-19-2010, 08:33 PM	#35
George Lama Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Buffalo/Rochester, NY Photos: Albums Posts: 1,133	It's not just voltage but amperage. D-LI50 provides 1620 mAh @ 7.4V - That's 12 Watts of power D-LI90 provides 1860 mAh @ 7.2V - That's 13.4 Watts of power It's the same concept as car batteries - they all function on a 12V system, but Cold Cranking Amperage ratings and sizes vary. Would you want your Hummer H3 powered by the same battery that runs a Fiat Uno? Also, based on these numbers the D-LI90 should generate less heat during heavy usage than the D-LI50 as it also has less resistance. Simply put Pentax needed a more powerful battery and sought one that fit the bill. After all, as others pointed out, the K7 has video capabilities that would probably kill a single D-LI50 in a short time.

02-20-2010, 08:19 AM	#36
TheTenaciousOne Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 111	And this is part of the news and rumor forum how?

02-20-2010, 08:51 AM	#37
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Complaints about batterys valid. There is no reason at all that batterys for electronic devices can't be made compatible to be used in many different products. While many will claim that batterys lower the "carbon footprint", the chemicals used in the manufacture of them are extremely hazardous. Most end up in landfills where they slowly leak into the ground water and will raise pollution levels for years to come. I am very surprised that there hasn't been some sort of standards enacted to reduce the amount the amount of batterys being consumed and disposed of.

02-20-2010, 10:47 AM	#38
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	I don't think anyone pointed this out, but the handgrip on the K-7 has changed quite a bit (and very favorably IMHO) compared to the K20D. Given the new shape, the battery had to be slimmed down. For me, I'd rather have the better grip shape than trying to have backward compatibility with old batteries, which degrade over time anyway.

02-20-2010, 11:41 AM	#39
m8o Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: 40°-55'-44" N / 73°-24'-07" W [on LI] Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,092	Originally posted by Jasvox P.S. Maybe this should be moved to another section as this is neither news or rumor. In all honesty, this is news to me. No, I don't live in a cave. But I also do agree it doesn't belong in the News & Rumors section. Heck, I once got "one demerit" applied to me for a thread I started in here that I thought was closer to this subject matter, but was moved by a mod who must have been cranky that day and got tired of moving threads and started dishing out demerits for them. (which soon got reversed by our fearless leader Adam)

02-26-2010, 06:28 AM	#40
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	Originally posted by m8o In all honesty, this is news to me. No, I don't live in a cave. But I also do agree it doesn't belong in the News & Rumors section. Heck, I once got "one demerit" applied to me for a thread I started in here that I thought was closer to this subject matter, but was moved by a mod who must have been cranky that day and got tired of moving threads and started dishing out demerits for them. (which soon got reversed by our fearless leader Adam) No harm, no foul I suppose...seems to be very fashionable lately for things to be oddly placed within this forum. Jason

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03-01-2010, 12:18 AM	#41
vk4akp Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ipswich / Qld / Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 133	This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered! There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]). Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots. Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available. .-.-.

03-01-2010, 01:33 AM	#42
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	Originally posted by vk4akp This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered! Realistically it can't be that many, or the K-x wouldn't be the only current DSLR from any manufacturer on the market which takes AA batteries without requiring an external portrait grip to do so. Truth be told, this is a non-issue for most people. Quote: There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]). Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots. Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available. The issue is likely down to a combination of packaging and ease of use. AA batteries have lower energy density than lithium-ion cells, which means heavier, bulkier camera bodies. Take a look at the K-x - although Pentax has done a fairly good job of keeping size down, it is (with batteries loaded) among the heaviest couple of cameras in its class - only Nikon has an offering near the same weight. Loaded and ready to go (except for a lens), all of the competing cameras from Canon, Olympus and Sony are significantly lighter, and Nikon also has noticeably lighter models. By way of comparison, the K-x with batteries in is about halfway between a Canon Rebel-class camera and Pentax's own prosumer K-7. AA's are also not as easy to change in a rush or in dim light, requiring you to fiddle around with multiple cells, making sure each is the right way around. Changing the batteries on a K-x without setting anything down requires you to hold the camera plus eight batteries at once, keeping track of what's what and where it's headed - as compared to handling just two batteries that can only be inserted one way around in every other DSLR out there. Don't get me wrong - I like having the option of AAs as a last-resort backup myself, personally. It's part of why I bought the K-7's battery grip. I just feel that custom cells win hands-down for my own purposes, and the fact that almost the entire DSLR market has migrated to them suggests they're probably the best choice for most users' purposes, as well.

03-01-2010, 02:09 AM	#43
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	I just recently ordered a 1400MAH 7.2v D LI90 off evilBay for 9.89 shipped from California. Not bad at all, especially since I ordered the DX grip also to try it on.

03-01-2010, 05:08 AM	#44
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,975	Originally posted by vk4akp This is why many of us refuse to buy anything non AA powered! There is no reason why Pentax couldn't release a camera with some form of advanced power management circuitry compatible with all AA chemestries (NiCd, NiMh) & including newer NiZn (1.6Volt) & Li-Ion (14500 AA cells [4.2Volt]). Then everyones happy. They can use what ever they want and it all goes in the same slots. Imagine a camera where you can use your higher power density Li-Ion cells and if your in a pinch you can still go to your closest store for any AA chemestry available. .-.-. I have no wish whatsoever to go back to the battery hell that was the *istD.

03-01-2010, 07:06 AM	#45
vk4akp Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ipswich / Qld / Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 133	Originally posted by knoxploration Truth be told, this is a non-issue for most people. I don't know so much. In my dealings with people I have often discussed their needs and wants with regards to consumer electronic products. What I have noticed is an even more prevalent trend then what I even expected. That is that people are so sick of custom batteries that not only do they boycott them they simply don't bother buying anything. Their past experiences have disappointed them so much they just don't buy the products at all any more. Instead they spend their disposable incomes on zero maintenance items like pay tv etc. Ask `Joe Consumer'. Do you have a camcorder? `No, I got sick of the batteries dieing & they were always expensive and hard to find. Every model seems to take a different battery. Why do they do that? '. Ask a person what they do when the battery in their mobile phone dies? Nine out of ten people will most likely answer, `we throw the phone away and buy a new phone'. They don't even bother to price a battery. Ask a person what are the things they hate the most in consumer electronics. Most will answer expensive weird shaped batteries that they can never find replacements for and printer ink cartridges. AA's are a good universal format. Pentax realises this and that's why they make cameras that take them. Now all they need to do is take this one step further and incorporate 14500 AA Li-Ion support to keep both sides of the fence happy. .-.-.