K-x Killing Images?

Finger · 02-21-2010, 11:40 PM

Did you edit the file outside the camera?The Kx will not be able to read a file that has been modified. If I connect the camera to my computer and just rotate a picture in Windows Photo Gallery, the Kx will not recognize the file anymore (but the file is fine).

Shub · 02-27-2010, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by fccwpe

Concur. Reformat after every download.

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

third vote on that. I always format in camera after downloading the images. Takes a couple of seconds and I feel better for the gain in safety against data corruption.

Ben

Alright, I'll definitely make this a habit. Thanks.

Originally posted by RioRico

I have read of QC 'issues' at certain Chinese card-making facilities, where workers sometimes run-off batches of un-inspected cards in the off-hours. This may or may not be the case with your problematic card -- but if exchanging it for a new one is no trouble, do so. Or see if you can swap cards with someone else for a test run. That might help you determine if the problem is the card, or the camera. G'luck.

I'm not sure if this is the problem with mine, but I went and exchanged it today.
Thanks.

Originally posted by Peter Zack

Yes

Yes

And yes.

Always reformat in the camera After the data has been securely downloaded. Even the best cards can cause issues.

Alright, thanks, I'll try to make it a habit, haha.

Originally posted by RioRico

I must respectfully disagree. Since 2002 I've used various digital cameras by Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, and Sony, using variously MemSticks (Sony), XD cards (Oly), and a few breeds of SD. Of the couple dozen or so cards I've bought, I have had NO [zero none zilch] corruption problems. when offloading via USB cable or a SanDisk multicard reader, or card readers (SD and MemStick) embedded in computers. I *did* have a problem with a no-name multicard reader, which insisted on reformatting cards after offloading. And I had a problem with an SD card formatted in a Minolta PNS which the Pentax K20D couldn't read -- reformatting on the K20D left the card still usable by the Minolta. Go figure.

I don't reformat after each offload because I have common directory structures on each card, and a common script (kept synchronized with my various net'd laptops). I carry different laptops on different journeys, and plug in various USB etc stuff that looks like different virtual drives. With the common structures and script, each card knows precisely how to rename files to identify the source camera, and where to offload on each computer, because the script is run from the card, not from the laptop. With the MemStick (Sony) cams, and the SD-card (Minolta & Pentax) cams, I can swap cards as needed, and images from the current camera always end up in a known directory with proper names. Reformatting after offloading would destroy all this and make managing my photos much more difficult.

I should also note that when I buy a new card, I stress-test it by loading and offloading, moving the card between cameras and computers, all repeated a few times. No cards have failed to pass the stress test, and none have suffered problems (yet). I'm a retired software engineer (burnt-out codemonkey); I treat memory card usage as just another form of system integration. Test them with paranoia, watch them carefully. If anyone else wants to perform continuous reformats, fine, but that's not for me.

Haha, to each their own I guess. For me, a simple reformat wouldn't hurt, I'll probably end up doing it once/week anyway.

Originally posted by Finger

Did you edit the file outside the camera?The Kx will not be able to read a file that has been modified. If I connect the camera to my computer and just rotate a picture in Windows Photo Gallery, the Kx will not recognize the file anymore (but the file is fine).

No, it was directly after taking a picture, before even connecting it to a computer.

******

Thanks to everyone!
I tried reformatting my card in the camera, and I had one corrupted image last night again (at a public rally I was assigned to take pictures of), so, today I went to Futureshop and traded it for a new one.

I think it should be fine now, but only time will tell.
On the plus side, they did have a new 'Olympic Edition' of the same card, so hopefully this means it's a newer card?

knoxploration · 02-27-2010, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Shub

I tried reformatting my card in the camera, and I had one corrupted image last night again (at a public rally I was assigned to take pictures of), so, today I went to Futureshop and traded it for a new one.

Hopefully you'll be fine now, as it sounds likely to have been a card issue. I had a similar issue with a Canon camera using CompactFlash cards, and the second corruption wasn't a single image - it was something fundamental to the card itself. I've tried it in several different computers / card readers / operating systems and cameras since, and only one has even been able to correctly identify the card capacity from a Linux-based boot CD. Even that boot CD immediately locks up upon trying to read the card. Frustrating, because it took a few dozen irreplaceable images along with it, but my own fault for not having backed the card up often enough, and not having jumped to protect myself at the very first sign of a problem... When these cards go, it can potentially be very sudden.

glanglois · 02-28-2010, 10:26 PM

The cautious approach (assuming the images are irreplaceable):

1. Use SanDisk or Lexar cards exclusively. (OK, so maybe that's more like a prejudice.)
2. Never insert/remove cards from camera/reader without appropriate procedure (power down or unmount removable drive /card reader).
3. Never get the cards very close to full. Something to do with finding space for the last few files.
4. Copy files from card to PC using SanDisk MicroMate reader. Not cheap but has never gotten confused. Ever. Cannot say that for my (former) cheap readers.
5. Set card aside.
6. Back up hard disk.
7. Remove backup media to another site.
8. Format card in camera.
9. Place card in card case, place card case in camera bag.

Might be paranoia. On the other hand, I've a background in telecoms and E9-1-1. We don't take much for granted.

If the images aren't important, fire away. None of the above is worth the effort.

xinu · 03-01-2010, 06:59 AM

I have a K7 with the same type of card as the OP and have problems as well. I find the problem occurs when I quickly chimp after shooting. No other problems so far. I now pause a second before viewing the LCD and this seems to mitigate the problem.

glanglois · 03-02-2010, 07:22 PM

Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes.

I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card.

xinu · 03-03-2010, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by glanglois

Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes.

I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card.

Right on that's what I figured. I have a Panasonic Class 10 16G SDHC card. I expected it to be as fast as my 8G Extreme III. Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light

knoxploration · 03-03-2010, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by xinu

Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light

The software doesn't allow the user to interrupt the write process. I've tested it myself, using a slow SD card and deliberately pressing the playback button either once or repeatedly as fast as I could, from immediately after the shutter release until the image appears. In neither circumstance have I had a single corrupted image.

A failing SD card or a poor electrical contact seems vastly more likely to me, because I'd wager people press the playback button while the image is still writing pretty frequently, and that would make this a very commonly reported problem if it actually existed.

glanglois · 03-03-2010, 12:53 PM

Good point. I, too, assumed that protection was part of the spec but have not wanted to test the reliability of the function. Thanks for giving it a quick workout!

Shub · 03-12-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by xinu

I have a K7 with the same type of card as the OP and have problems as well. I find the problem occurs when I quickly chimp after shooting. No other problems so far. I now pause a second before viewing the LCD and this seems to mitigate the problem.

This may have been the problem, but I have switched my card and so far, no problems. Fingers crossed.

Originally posted by glanglois

Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes.

I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card.

I usually try to wait, but I may have interrupted it accidentally.

Originally posted by xinu

Right on that's what I figured. I have a Panasonic Class 10 16G SDHC card. I expected it to be as fast as my 8G Extreme III. Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light

How do you find the speed between the two? Comparable?

Originally posted by knoxploration

The software doesn't allow the user to interrupt the write process. I've tested it myself, using a slow SD card and deliberately pressing the playback button either once or repeatedly as fast as I could, from immediately after the shutter release until the image appears. In neither circumstance have I had a single corrupted image.

A failing SD card or a poor electrical contact seems vastly more likely to me, because I'd wager people press the playback button while the image is still writing pretty frequently, and that would make this a very commonly reported problem if it actually existed.

I think it may have been my card, however, I can still wait for the blinking light if needed.

Nonetheless, my new card is free of problems so far. Thanks all!

Originally posted by glanglois

Good point. I, too, assumed that protection was part of the spec but have not wanted to test the reliability of the function. Thanks for giving it a quick workout!

NecroticSoldier · 03-12-2010, 06:59 PM

Actually I have the Panasonic Olympics 8GB Class 10 as well. I have not formated it yet, and it has not failed me so far, so about 200 pictures in, maybe more. I've even done videos.

Internetpilot · 03-12-2010, 07:03 PM

Get the official Panasonic SD Memory Card Formatting software:

SD Memory Card Formatting Software | SD Memory Card | Digital AV | Consumer Products | Support | Panasonic Global

FYI, this isn't only for use on Panasonic SD/SDHC cards -- you can use it on any. This utility has solved a lot of problems I've had with SDHC cards (specifically micro and mini versions used in phones, MP3 players, etc.).

I just visited the above website and discovered that they now have a new Beta version of this app, released Feb 2010. I don't know anything about this new v3 Beta, but the older v2 works like a charm.

Good luck!

-- Chris

xinu · 03-15-2010, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Shub

This may have been the problem, but I have switched my card and so far, no problems. Fingers crossed.

I usually try to wait, but I may have interrupted it accidentally.

How do you find the speed between the two? Comparable?

I think it may have been my card, however, I can still wait for the blinking light if needed.

Nonetheless, my new card is free of problems so far. Thanks all!

I can't tell the difference between the Extreme III and the Pany. Both have performed well in the K7 except the intermittent write problem with the Pany.

Shub · 03-20-2010, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by Internetpilot

Get the official Panasonic SD Memory Card Formatting software:

SD Memory Card Formatting Software | SD Memory Card | Digital AV | Consumer Products | Support | Panasonic Global

FYI, this isn't only for use on Panasonic SD/SDHC cards -- you can use it on any. This utility has solved a lot of problems I've had with SDHC cards (specifically micro and mini versions used in phones, MP3 players, etc.).

I just visited the above website and discovered that they now have a new Beta version of this app, released Feb 2010. I don't know anything about this new v3 Beta, but the older v2 works like a charm.

Good luck!

-- Chris

Thanks, I'm gonna have to try that now, as my new card seems to have killed 1 image out of about 200. A lot less than before, but still...

Originally posted by xinu

I can't tell the difference between the Extreme III and the Pany. Both have performed well in the K7 except the intermittent write problem with the Pany.

I exchanged my card, and the new one seems to be having a problem too...

02-28-2010, 10:26 PM	#19
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Overkill for many The cautious approach (assuming the images are irreplaceable): 1. Use SanDisk or Lexar cards exclusively. (OK, so maybe that's more like a prejudice.) 2. Never insert/remove cards from camera/reader without appropriate procedure (power down or unmount removable drive /card reader). 3. Never get the cards very close to full. Something to do with finding space for the last few files. 4. Copy files from card to PC using SanDisk MicroMate reader. Not cheap but has never gotten confused. Ever. Cannot say that for my (former) cheap readers. 5. Set card aside. 6. Back up hard disk. 7. Remove backup media to another site. 8. Format card in camera. 9. Place card in card case, place card case in camera bag. Might be paranoia. On the other hand, I've a background in telecoms and E9-1-1. We don't take much for granted. If the images aren't important, fire away. None of the above is worth the effort.

03-01-2010, 06:59 AM	#20
xinu Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Eastern Ontario Posts: 34	My K7 and same card does it too I have a K7 with the same type of card as the OP and have problems as well. I find the problem occurs when I quickly chimp after shooting. No other problems so far. I now pause a second before viewing the LCD and this seems to mitigate the problem.

03-12-2010, 07:03 PM	#27
Internetpilot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NE Florida Posts: 130	Get the official Panasonic SD Memory Card Formatting software: SD Memory Card Formatting Software \| SD Memory Card \| Digital AV \| Consumer Products \| Support \| Panasonic Global FYI, this isn't only for use on Panasonic SD/SDHC cards -- you can use it on any. This utility has solved a lot of problems I've had with SDHC cards (specifically micro and mini versions used in phones, MP3 players, etc.). I just visited the above website and discovered that they now have a new Beta version of this app, released Feb 2010. I don't know anything about this new v3 Beta, but the older v2 works like a charm. Good luck! -- Chris Last edited by Internetpilot; 03-16-2010 at 02:45 PM.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Travel Killing fields	bymy141	Post Your Photos!	12	04-15-2010 01:53 PM
Is Flickr killing photography????	*isteve	General Talk	48	11-12-2009 01:25 PM
The Good Times are Killing Me	brkl	Post Your Photos!	7	03-09-2009 12:53 PM
Killing some time with my 50/1.7	pentagor	Post Your Photos!	1	02-04-2008 06:28 AM
Killing time with Fa 31/1.8 lens	roentarre	Post Your Photos!	5	12-05-2006 06:41 PM

02-21-2010, 11:40 PM	#16
Finger Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Québec Posts: 121	Did you edit the file outside the camera?The Kx will not be able to read a file that has been modified. If I connect the camera to my computer and just rotate a picture in Windows Photo Gallery, the Kx will not recognize the file anymore (but the file is fine).

02-27-2010, 01:17 PM	#17
Shub Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 163 Original Poster	Originally posted by fccwpe Concur. Reformat after every download. Originally posted by Ben_Edict third vote on that. I always format in camera after downloading the images. Takes a couple of seconds and I feel better for the gain in safety against data corruption. Ben Alright, I'll definitely make this a habit. Thanks. Originally posted by RioRico I have read of QC 'issues' at certain Chinese card-making facilities, where workers sometimes run-off batches of un-inspected cards in the off-hours. This may or may not be the case with your problematic card -- but if exchanging it for a new one is no trouble, do so. Or see if you can swap cards with someone else for a test run. That might help you determine if the problem is the card, or the camera. G'luck. I'm not sure if this is the problem with mine, but I went and exchanged it today. Thanks. Originally posted by Peter Zack Yes Yes And yes. Always reformat in the camera After the data has been securely downloaded. Even the best cards can cause issues. Alright, thanks, I'll try to make it a habit, haha. Originally posted by RioRico I must respectfully disagree. Since 2002 I've used various digital cameras by Pentax, Minolta, Olympus, and Sony, using variously MemSticks (Sony), XD cards (Oly), and a few breeds of SD. Of the couple dozen or so cards I've bought, I have had NO [zero none zilch] corruption problems. when offloading via USB cable or a SanDisk multicard reader, or card readers (SD and MemStick) embedded in computers. I did have a problem with a no-name multicard reader, which insisted on reformatting cards after offloading. And I had a problem with an SD card formatted in a Minolta PNS which the Pentax K20D couldn't read -- reformatting on the K20D left the card still usable by the Minolta. Go figure. I don't reformat after each offload because I have common directory structures on each card, and a common script (kept synchronized with my various net'd laptops). I carry different laptops on different journeys, and plug in various USB etc stuff that looks like different virtual drives. With the common structures and script, each card knows precisely how to rename files to identify the source camera, and where to offload on each computer, because the script is run from the card, not from the laptop. With the MemStick (Sony) cams, and the SD-card (Minolta & Pentax) cams, I can swap cards as needed, and images from the current camera always end up in a known directory with proper names. Reformatting after offloading would destroy all this and make managing my photos much more difficult. I should also note that when I buy a new card, I stress-test it by loading and offloading, moving the card between cameras and computers, all repeated a few times. No cards have failed to pass the stress test, and none have suffered problems (yet). I'm a retired software engineer (burnt-out codemonkey); I treat memory card usage as just another form of system integration. Test them with paranoia, watch them carefully. If anyone else wants to perform continuous reformats, fine, but that's not for me. Haha, to each their own I guess. For me, a simple reformat wouldn't hurt, I'll probably end up doing it once/week anyway. Originally posted by Finger Did you edit the file outside the camera?The Kx will not be able to read a file that has been modified. If I connect the camera to my computer and just rotate a picture in Windows Photo Gallery, the Kx will not recognize the file anymore (but the file is fine). No, it was directly after taking a picture, before even connecting it to a computer. ****** Thanks to everyone! I tried reformatting my card in the camera, and I had one corrupted image last night again (at a public rally I was assigned to take pictures of), so, today I went to Futureshop and traded it for a new one. I think it should be fine now, but only time will tell. On the plus side, they did have a new 'Olympic Edition' of the same card, so hopefully this means it's a newer card?

02-27-2010, 02:09 PM	#18
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	Originally posted by Shub I tried reformatting my card in the camera, and I had one corrupted image last night again (at a public rally I was assigned to take pictures of), so, today I went to Futureshop and traded it for a new one. Hopefully you'll be fine now, as it sounds likely to have been a card issue. I had a similar issue with a Canon camera using CompactFlash cards, and the second corruption wasn't a single image - it was something fundamental to the card itself. I've tried it in several different computers / card readers / operating systems and cameras since, and only one has even been able to correctly identify the card capacity from a Linux-based boot CD. Even that boot CD immediately locks up upon trying to read the card. Frustrating, because it took a few dozen irreplaceable images along with it, but my own fault for not having backed the card up often enough, and not having jumped to protect myself at the very first sign of a problem... When these cards go, it can potentially be very sudden.

03-02-2010, 07:22 PM	#21
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes. I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card.

03-03-2010, 07:53 AM	#22
xinu Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Eastern Ontario Posts: 34	Originally posted by glanglois Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes. I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card. Right on that's what I figured. I have a Panasonic Class 10 16G SDHC card. I expected it to be as fast as my 8G Extreme III. Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light

03-03-2010, 11:39 AM	#23
knoxploration Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 846	Originally posted by xinu Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light The software doesn't allow the user to interrupt the write process. I've tested it myself, using a slow SD card and deliberately pressing the playback button either once or repeatedly as fast as I could, from immediately after the shutter release until the image appears. In neither circumstance have I had a single corrupted image. A failing SD card or a poor electrical contact seems vastly more likely to me, because I'd wager people press the playback button while the image is still writing pretty frequently, and that would make this a very commonly reported problem if it actually existed.

03-03-2010, 12:53 PM	#24
glanglois Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Madison, Wis., USA Posts: 1,506	Good point. I, too, assumed that protection was part of the spec but have not wanted to test the reliability of the function. Thanks for giving it a quick workout!

03-12-2010, 06:47 PM	#25
Shub Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 163 Original Poster	Originally posted by xinu I have a K7 with the same type of card as the OP and have problems as well. I find the problem occurs when I quickly chimp after shooting. No other problems so far. I now pause a second before viewing the LCD and this seems to mitigate the problem. This may have been the problem, but I have switched my card and so far, no problems. Fingers crossed. Originally posted by glanglois Are you waiting for the image to write completely from the buffer to the card before chimping? The flashing light will tell you that the transfer is in progress. You should wait until it completes. I know that sounds obvious but I had to mention it. One reason I use Extreme III cards is for the speed: the image is transferred to the card and ready for viewing much faster with a class 2/4 card or a slower class 6 card. I usually try to wait, but I may have interrupted it accidentally. Originally posted by xinu Right on that's what I figured. I have a Panasonic Class 10 16G SDHC card. I expected it to be as fast as my 8G Extreme III. Never the less, one would think the software wouldn't let the user interrupt the write process with a button push. I'll just have to pay attention to the blinking light How do you find the speed between the two? Comparable? Originally posted by knoxploration The software doesn't allow the user to interrupt the write process. I've tested it myself, using a slow SD card and deliberately pressing the playback button either once or repeatedly as fast as I could, from immediately after the shutter release until the image appears. In neither circumstance have I had a single corrupted image. A failing SD card or a poor electrical contact seems vastly more likely to me, because I'd wager people press the playback button while the image is still writing pretty frequently, and that would make this a very commonly reported problem if it actually existed. I think it may have been my card, however, I can still wait for the blinking light if needed. Nonetheless, my new card is free of problems so far. Thanks all! Originally posted by glanglois Good point. I, too, assumed that protection was part of the spec but have not wanted to test the reliability of the function. Thanks for giving it a quick workout!

03-12-2010, 06:59 PM	#26
NecroticSoldier Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Scarborough, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 488	Actually I have the Panasonic Olympics 8GB Class 10 as well. I have not formated it yet, and it has not failed me so far, so about 200 pictures in, maybe more. I've even done videos.

03-15-2010, 08:15 AM	#28
xinu Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Eastern Ontario Posts: 34	Originally posted by Shub This may have been the problem, but I have switched my card and so far, no problems. Fingers crossed. I usually try to wait, but I may have interrupted it accidentally. How do you find the speed between the two? Comparable? I think it may have been my card, however, I can still wait for the blinking light if needed. Nonetheless, my new card is free of problems so far. Thanks all! I can't tell the difference between the Extreme III and the Pany. Both have performed well in the K7 except the intermittent write problem with the Pany.

03-20-2010, 05:29 PM	#29
Shub Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 163 Original Poster	Originally posted by Internetpilot Get the official Panasonic SD Memory Card Formatting software: SD Memory Card Formatting Software \| SD Memory Card \| Digital AV \| Consumer Products \| Support \| Panasonic Global FYI, this isn't only for use on Panasonic SD/SDHC cards -- you can use it on any. This utility has solved a lot of problems I've had with SDHC cards (specifically micro and mini versions used in phones, MP3 players, etc.). I just visited the above website and discovered that they now have a new Beta version of this app, released Feb 2010. I don't know anything about this new v3 Beta, but the older v2 works like a charm. Good luck! -- Chris Thanks, I'm gonna have to try that now, as my new card seems to have killed 1 image out of about 200. A lot less than before, but still... Originally posted by xinu I can't tell the difference between the Extreme III and the Pany. Both have performed well in the K7 except the intermittent write problem with the Pany. I exchanged my card, and the new one seems to be having a problem too...