Pentax K-x mirror slap and/or SR blur problem

bobmaxja · 10-30-2010, 06:06 AM

I took over 2000 photo with mine, never say that. I am extremely happy with my K-X

winglik · 10-31-2010, 07:28 AM

After tried 2 K-x bodies (black and White) on 2 different Tamron Lenses (17-55mm and 28-75mm) on 2 trips with unsatisfied blur photos. I compared the K-x by using both lens on the old K10D, I confirmed that the the mirror slap is a real issue. When I was using the k-x outdoor with smaller aperture and exposure over 1/150, everything looked good. I guess that was why the 18-55mm kit lens works better with the k-x. But when I tried to use bigger aperture F2.8 and at exposure under 1/100, I was able to see the blur when zoom into 1:1 ratio. Same issue with SR on and off. This happened over 30% of my photos from those 2 trips. So, I guess that loud mirror slap did cause some image issue. At less When I used my K10D with the same lenses, I don't see any of these issue at all, even at exposure under 1/20. I guess that was why I went back to the K10D.

akpch · 11-03-2010, 04:24 PM

Looks like I have not posted my test results here

http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz165/akpch/test/mirror_shake_k-x.jpg

Second copy I have now is not that bad. I keep taking it with me instead of my Canon 400D. With first copy it put me out so bad I could not use for 6 mo.

Eruditass · 11-03-2010, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by beethovenspiano

It has put me off buying one.

Luckily I was an early adopter so I was not put off (probably would've been) because no one knew and didn't get one with a problem. One of my favorite buying decisions, though

lendoirin · 12-06-2010, 01:51 PM

Hi everybody,

I've made a quick test and, altought it must be corroborated by some extensive testing, I think that the blurry images are somehow related with the battery quality:

Equipment:
K-x with Tamron AF 18-250 DiII

Settings:
18mm f3.5 1/125s

Factors:
Camera Orientation (Hrz / Vert)
Battery (almost emptied SONY NiMh 2500 mA 1.2V / full charged SANYO eneloop NiMh 2000 mA 1.2V)
SR mode (On / Off)

Test 1
almost emptied SONY 2500 mA
Horizontal
SR On
19 shoots
68% good
32% normal (tiny shadows)
Good Sample (100% crop)
Normal Sample (100% crop)

Test 2
Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA
Horizontal
SR On
28 shoots
18% good
64% normal
11% poor
7% very poor
Good Sample (100% crop)
Normal Sample (100% crop)
Poor Sample (100% crop)
Very Poor Sample (100% crop)

Test 3
Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA
Vertical
SR On
20 shoots
100% normal
Normal Sample (100% crop)

Test 4
Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA
Horizontal
SR Off
54 shoots
66% normal
33% normal-poor
Normal Sample (100% crop)
Normal-Poor Sample (100% crop)

Seems that SR system make the results worse, but my thought is that pictures taken with the SONY batteries are much better than with the SANYO ones.

frdrx · 12-06-2010, 04:36 PM

I have encountered the problem you described, but it was always my fault, not the camera's.

SMeK · 12-06-2010, 05:26 PM

hey guys i must admit you scared just scared me.. how to test, I mean with or without flash, does it matter? tyvm. with flash everything seems to be fine.

akpch · 12-07-2010, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by SMeK

hey guys i must admit you scared just scared me.. how to test, I mean with or without flash, does it matter? tyvm. with flash everything seems to be fine.

I'd say don't bother if you did not notice issue yet. My second sample has some of it but I can totally live with that much blur.

alohadave · 12-07-2010, 06:17 AM

Originally posted by Jesus

Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others .

Pay no attention to this post .

You should hear the K100D Super. It's like a gunshot.

nick c · 12-07-2010, 05:46 PM

I have had a lot of trouble with blurred/doubled images on my K-m and have also noticed it on my K-x.

A couple of months ago, I finally decided to send in the K-m to pentax to see if they could fix it. The double images were not the only problem with the camera, the viewfinder was also quite foggy. I got the K-m back in under a month from Pentax Canada. The doubled images are still there, but to a lesser extent. Pentax did not tell me what they did to the camera, but I do know they replaced the viewfinder, since the scratch that was on the back of the viewfinder is gone.
I bought the K-x just after sending in my K-m, hoping it would not have a problem with doubled images. I have still noticed double images at 1/60 to 1/125 of a second. I find I have much fewer double images when using the Tamron 17-50 then when using the kit lens. I think this is because to Tamron is much heavier and helps to steady the camera. I also have less double images when I remember to wait for the SR to show that its ready in the viewfinder. By using a heavier lens and waiting for SR to be ready, I have greatly reduced the pencentage of double images and no longer have to worry about my camera ruining my photographs.

I find the article on shutter induced blur on the Lumolabs site does a good job of explaining the double images that I have been experiencing.
The full explanation can be found here: http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k7shutter/index.html

lendoirin · 12-08-2010, 06:52 AM

Originally posted by nick c

I have had a lot of trouble with blurred/doubled images on my K-m and have also noticed it on my K-x.

A couple of months ago, I finally decided to send in the K-m to pentax to see if they could fix it. The double images were not the only problem with the camera, the viewfinder was also quite foggy. I got the K-m back in under a month from Pentax Canada. The doubled images are still there, but to a lesser extent. Pentax did not tell me what they did to the camera, but I do know they replaced the viewfinder, since the scratch that was on the back of the viewfinder is gone.
I bought the K-x just after sending in my K-m, hoping it would not have a problem with doubled images. I have still noticed double images at 1/60 to 1/125 of a second. I find I have much fewer double images when using the Tamron 17-50 then when using the kit lens. I think this is because to Tamron is much heavier and helps to steady the camera. I also have less double images when I remember to wait for the SR to show that its ready in the viewfinder. By using a heavier lens and waiting for SR to be ready, I have greatly reduced the pencentage of double images and no longer have to worry about my camera ruining my photographs.

I find the article on shutter induced blur on the Lumolabs site does a good job of explaining the double images that I have been experiencing.
The full explanation can be found here: LumoLabs -- Shutter-induced blur for Pentax K-7

Wow! amazing study.

Assuming that a massive tripod cannot be always used:

I guess K-x shutter should be similar as K-7. So there is some blur inherent to the heavier and faster shutter that cannot be avoided.

I'm not shure if the second (and seems to be the most important) factor: "unstable image sensor position controller or equivalent non-linear effect triggered by body acceleration" could be somehow improved (firmware update?)

My theory of the battery quality could be consistent with this second cause. Good batteries might reduce this effect in a certain extent?

Steve Beswick · 12-30-2010, 01:13 AM

I know I am really late to the game on this issue, but has anyone considered that this might just be mashed shutter syndrome for most peoples issues? Is it possible the camera is light enough that instead of rotational blur from mashing the shutter the whole camera is moving? After viewing many test photos that show significant blur in the 1/100th range, that somehow magically clears up by 1/30th or so, this seems like the only logical conclusion to me.

akpch · 12-31-2010, 12:08 AM

Originally posted by Steve Beswick

I know I am really late to the game on this issue, but has anyone considered that this might just be m, ashed shutter syndrome for most peoples issues? Is it possible the camera is light enough that instead of rotational blur from mashing the shutter the whole camera is moving? After viewing many test photos that show significant blur in the 1/100th range, that somehow magically clears up by 1/30th or so, this seems like the only logical conclusion to me.

Not sure what mashed shutter is but on 1/30 issue does not disappear, it just that second edge on the picture is not so visible.

Steve Beswick · 12-31-2010, 12:18 AM

Originally posted by akpch

Not sure what mashed shutter is but on 1/30 issue does not disappear, it just that second edge on the picture is not so visible.

Mashed shutter - the classic photographic mistake - pressing the shutter button entirely too hard. If the bluring is at it's worst in the 1/60th to 1/100th range that is usually the tell tale sign. The only thing that is throwing me off with this one is that M.S.S. usually presents as rotational blur, not lateral. Still, it is more likely to happen in vertical shots, so that would support my theory. Also, the lighter the camera, the more careful one must be to prevent M.S.S.

garyk · 12-31-2010, 01:39 AM

I have serious problems with the shutter blur and the k-x. I would like to know the actual numbers where the problem starts and stops. And how big a blur in Mp there is.
I started another thread but i have yet to see the numbers. It is hard to blame it on the mashed shutter thing. If you hold down the button for a second or 5 and every pic is the same.

View Poll Results: Have you noticed blurred image and/or double image with your K-x
Yes	74	34.91%
No	138	65.09%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

12-07-2010, 05:46 PM	#85
nick c Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 29	I have had a lot of trouble with blurred/doubled images on my K-m and have also noticed it on my K-x. A couple of months ago, I finally decided to send in the K-m to pentax to see if they could fix it. The double images were not the only problem with the camera, the viewfinder was also quite foggy. I got the K-m back in under a month from Pentax Canada. The doubled images are still there, but to a lesser extent. Pentax did not tell me what they did to the camera, but I do know they replaced the viewfinder, since the scratch that was on the back of the viewfinder is gone. I bought the K-x just after sending in my K-m, hoping it would not have a problem with doubled images. I have still noticed double images at 1/60 to 1/125 of a second. I find I have much fewer double images when using the Tamron 17-50 then when using the kit lens. I think this is because to Tamron is much heavier and helps to steady the camera. I also have less double images when I remember to wait for the SR to show that its ready in the viewfinder. By using a heavier lens and waiting for SR to be ready, I have greatly reduced the pencentage of double images and no longer have to worry about my camera ruining my photographs. I find the article on shutter induced blur on the Lumolabs site does a good job of explaining the double images that I have been experiencing. The full explanation can be found here: http://www.falklumo.com/lumolabs/articles/k7shutter/index.html Last edited by nick c; 12-07-2010 at 06:07 PM.

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10-30-2010, 06:06 AM	#76
bobmaxja Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Laval, Quebec Canada Posts: 2,171	I took over 2000 photo with mine, never say that. I am extremely happy with my K-X

10-31-2010, 07:28 AM	#77
winglik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 258	After tried 2 K-x bodies (black and White) on 2 different Tamron Lenses (17-55mm and 28-75mm) on 2 trips with unsatisfied blur photos. I compared the K-x by using both lens on the old K10D, I confirmed that the the mirror slap is a real issue. When I was using the k-x outdoor with smaller aperture and exposure over 1/150, everything looked good. I guess that was why the 18-55mm kit lens works better with the k-x. But when I tried to use bigger aperture F2.8 and at exposure under 1/100, I was able to see the blur when zoom into 1:1 ratio. Same issue with SR on and off. This happened over 30% of my photos from those 2 trips. So, I guess that loud mirror slap did cause some image issue. At less When I used my K10D with the same lenses, I don't see any of these issue at all, even at exposure under 1/20. I guess that was why I went back to the K10D.

11-03-2010, 04:24 PM	#78
akpch New Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pequannock Posts: 16	Looks like I have not posted my test results here http://i824.photobucket.com/albums/zz165/akpch/test/mirror_shake_k-x.jpg Second copy I have now is not that bad. I keep taking it with me instead of my Canon 400D. With first copy it put me out so bad I could not use for 6 mo.

11-03-2010, 04:51 PM	#79
Eruditass Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,207	Originally posted by beethovenspiano It has put me off buying one. Luckily I was an early adopter so I was not put off (probably would've been) because no one knew and didn't get one with a problem. One of my favorite buying decisions, though

12-06-2010, 01:51 PM	#80
lendoirin New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vigo Posts: 2	Hi everybody, I've made a quick test and, altought it must be corroborated by some extensive testing, I think that the blurry images are somehow related with the battery quality: Equipment: K-x with Tamron AF 18-250 DiII Settings: 18mm f3.5 1/125s Factors: Camera Orientation (Hrz / Vert) Battery (almost emptied SONY NiMh 2500 mA 1.2V / full charged SANYO eneloop NiMh 2000 mA 1.2V) SR mode (On / Off) Test 1 almost emptied SONY 2500 mA Horizontal SR On 19 shoots 68% good 32% normal (tiny shadows) Good Sample (100% crop) Normal Sample (100% crop) Test 2 Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA Horizontal SR On 28 shoots 18% good 64% normal 11% poor 7% very poor Good Sample (100% crop) Normal Sample (100% crop) Poor Sample (100% crop) Very Poor Sample (100% crop) Test 3 Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA Vertical SR On 20 shoots 100% normal Normal Sample (100% crop) Test 4 Full charged SANYO eneloop 2000 mA Horizontal SR Off 54 shoots 66% normal 33% normal-poor Normal Sample (100% crop) Normal-Poor Sample (100% crop) Seems that SR system make the results worse, but my thought is that pictures taken with the SONY batteries are much better than with the SANYO ones.

12-06-2010, 04:36 PM	#81
frdrx New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Just outside Prague Posts: 1	I have encountered the problem you described, but it was always my fault, not the camera's.

12-06-2010, 05:26 PM	#82
SMeK Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 150	hey guys i must admit you scared just scared me.. how to test, I mean with or without flash, does it matter? tyvm. with flash everything seems to be fine.

12-07-2010, 05:56 AM	#83
akpch New Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pequannock Posts: 16	Originally posted by SMeK hey guys i must admit you scared just scared me.. how to test, I mean with or without flash, does it matter? tyvm. with flash everything seems to be fine. I'd say don't bother if you did not notice issue yet. My second sample has some of it but I can totally live with that much blur.

12-07-2010, 06:17 AM	#84
alohadave Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Quincy, MA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,024	Originally posted by Jesus Not to high jack this thread , but , I was in a electronics store in Phoenix last weekend , got to handle several cameras including the K-X and "wow" , the volume of sound from the mirror slap shocked me and the weight too , compared to the others . Pay no attention to this post . You should hear the K100D Super. It's like a gunshot.

12-08-2010, 06:52 AM	#86
lendoirin New Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Vigo Posts: 2	Originally posted by nick c I have had a lot of trouble with blurred/doubled images on my K-m and have also noticed it on my K-x. A couple of months ago, I finally decided to send in the K-m to pentax to see if they could fix it. The double images were not the only problem with the camera, the viewfinder was also quite foggy. I got the K-m back in under a month from Pentax Canada. The doubled images are still there, but to a lesser extent. Pentax did not tell me what they did to the camera, but I do know they replaced the viewfinder, since the scratch that was on the back of the viewfinder is gone. I bought the K-x just after sending in my K-m, hoping it would not have a problem with doubled images. I have still noticed double images at 1/60 to 1/125 of a second. I find I have much fewer double images when using the Tamron 17-50 then when using the kit lens. I think this is because to Tamron is much heavier and helps to steady the camera. I also have less double images when I remember to wait for the SR to show that its ready in the viewfinder. By using a heavier lens and waiting for SR to be ready, I have greatly reduced the pencentage of double images and no longer have to worry about my camera ruining my photographs. I find the article on shutter induced blur on the Lumolabs site does a good job of explaining the double images that I have been experiencing. The full explanation can be found here: LumoLabs -- Shutter-induced blur for Pentax K-7 Wow! amazing study. Assuming that a massive tripod cannot be always used: I guess K-x shutter should be similar as K-7. So there is some blur inherent to the heavier and faster shutter that cannot be avoided. I'm not shure if the second (and seems to be the most important) factor: "unstable image sensor position controller or equivalent non-linear effect triggered by body acceleration" could be somehow improved (firmware update?) My theory of the battery quality could be consistent with this second cause. Good batteries might reduce this effect in a certain extent?

12-30-2010, 01:13 AM	#87
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	I know I am really late to the game on this issue, but has anyone considered that this might just be mashed shutter syndrome for most peoples issues? Is it possible the camera is light enough that instead of rotational blur from mashing the shutter the whole camera is moving? After viewing many test photos that show significant blur in the 1/100th range, that somehow magically clears up by 1/30th or so, this seems like the only logical conclusion to me.

12-31-2010, 12:08 AM	#88
akpch New Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Pequannock Posts: 16	Originally posted by Steve Beswick I know I am really late to the game on this issue, but has anyone considered that this might just be m, ashed shutter syndrome for most peoples issues? Is it possible the camera is light enough that instead of rotational blur from mashing the shutter the whole camera is moving? After viewing many test photos that show significant blur in the 1/100th range, that somehow magically clears up by 1/30th or so, this seems like the only logical conclusion to me. Not sure what mashed shutter is but on 1/30 issue does not disappear, it just that second edge on the picture is not so visible.

12-31-2010, 12:18 AM	#89
Steve Beswick Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ontario, California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,736	Originally posted by akpch Not sure what mashed shutter is but on 1/30 issue does not disappear, it just that second edge on the picture is not so visible. Mashed shutter - the classic photographic mistake - pressing the shutter button entirely too hard. If the bluring is at it's worst in the 1/60th to 1/100th range that is usually the tell tale sign. The only thing that is throwing me off with this one is that M.S.S. usually presents as rotational blur, not lateral. Still, it is more likely to happen in vertical shots, so that would support my theory. Also, the lighter the camera, the more careful one must be to prevent M.S.S.

12-31-2010, 01:39 AM	#90
garyk Inactive Account Join Date: Feb 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 488	I have serious problems with the shutter blur and the k-x. I would like to know the actual numbers where the problem starts and stops. And how big a blur in Mp there is. I started another thread but i have yet to see the numbers. It is hard to blame it on the mashed shutter thing. If you hold down the button for a second or 5 and every pic is the same.