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03-01-2010, 04:42 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
You forget the MX and the venerable LX... both Pro grade 35mm bodies that only failed to trounce the contemporary CaNikons due to Pentax's usual abysmal non-marketing.
Around the time the LX hit the market, it had pretty much already been trumped by the Canon F1n, and quite honestly, the Nikon F3 was a far better camera in most respects as well.
And, as you say, Pentax didn't market the LX to the pro shooter, but this had as much to do with corporate philosophy as it had to do with marketing.
Pentax just never really saw the 35mm market as a professional market.
By doing this, they didn't really need to cater to the pro 35mm shooter with regards to support.
My LX bodies, which saw a lot of use, also saw a lot ovf service calls. LX#1 went in for service every two years for some failure or another, LX #2 had about the same failure rate, and LX #3, only went into the shop once, but that was because I bought it late in my career and stopped shooting film not long after buying it.
The last time I sent them in, all three went in at the same time.
One came back after 6 weeks, one was 3 months, and the other was almost 6 months because Pentax had to build it a new circuit board.
This is not pro level service.
Compare this to my 6x7, which only broke once, and that was my own clumsiness. I broke it on a Thursday, sent it in of Friday by courier, and had it back the following Tuesday.
That is pro service.

03-01-2010, 04:52 PM   #32
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Oh, no question about the service angle and you are right that Pentax neglected the pro 35mm market. If they'd paid it the attention that Canon and Nikon did, the MX and LX would have been continually improved and Pentax would have been mentioned as an equal to Canon and Nikon today.

It is good to hear about the pro service on the 6X7 but we all know those days are long gone for any Pentax gear. This is frankly one of the things that Pentax seriously needs to fix if they ever hope to compete in the Pro market. Unfortunately I'm not convinced they want to compete... I hope I'm wrong.

Mike
03-01-2010, 07:28 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
it's called JEALOUSY! As for rumors,
"Pentax is going out of business within the next 6 months to a year"
First heard that one back in about 1978 from the photography professor at my college. He shot Minoltas....
This makes me want to start a rumour. As Pentax market share continues to increase, and when the 645D starts making inroads on high-end Canikony sales, someone will make Hoya an Offer They Can't Refuse. Nikon (a tiny piece of the Mitsubishi Group), or Canon or Sony (both MAJOR consumer electronics firms), will find it in their interest to terminate the Pentax menace. Pentax won't die naturally; it will be bought and strangled, like what Sony did to Minolta.

[/me raises tarnished bugle to lips, plays TAPS slowly, sheds tears...]

[well, not a bugle, a yard-sale trombone really, but you get the picture]
03-02-2010, 12:54 PM   #34
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Canikon vs. Pentax

Regarding the "obnoxious" Canon and Nikon users out there and their hatred for Pentax cameras,

Coming from a Professional Photography program in Montreal, Quebec (the only English photography program in Quebec), with around 60 students all owning Nikon or Canon cameras, I think it's fair to say I feel a little outnumbered at times. I am literally the only one out of 60 students in my year who owns and uses a Pentax camera.

That being said, I do not think it's a superior attitude that these "Canikon" users have towards us Pentax users, but it's rather a very ignorant one. Most of them do not even have a clue what Pentax is. And, if they do, they have the smallest amount of respect for anyone who uses one. I understand that Pentax may be a tiny part of the photographic community and market, but it's hilarious to see how ignorant people can be towards something they've never heard of.

In consequence, there have been times where owning a Pentax has had it's limitations. Especially with studio-based photography and equipment. (i.e tethered shooting, tilt-shift lenses, and other studio accessories not compatible with Pentax)

All in all, I'm extremely happy with the choice I've made in camera equipment. And, don't get me wrong, my classmates are not terrible people. They have just developed a mindset which makes them focus on certain, more popular camera brands.
Of course, this is only a small obvservation I've come to make in such a small community of young photographers, but I think it's worth sharing.

Don't hate on Canon and Nikon users, and they won't hate on you. Playground rules.

03-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by coelhom Quote
In consequence, there have been times where owning a Pentax has had it's limitations. Especially with studio-based photography and equipment. (i.e tethered shooting, tilt-shift lenses, and other studio accessories not compatible with Pentax)
I can and do tether my K20D. I could (and likely will) buy tilt-shift adapters and lenses. Such are not exclusive to certain brands.

As I've mentioned, I have a background in still photography, and software design. Camera-wise, I think in 35mm terms. I trained in an IBM mode of systems analysis: define your desired outputs (O), determine the available inputs (I), and decide what processes will take you from I to O. For buying a dSLR, that meant asking 1) what pictures do I want to make? 2) what lenses will help me do that, and 3) what affordable body, that I won't want to upgrade right away, will mount those lenses? That analysis led me to Pentax and certain lenses. I suspect most Canikony users don't perform such analysis, just fall for marketing hype and/or grab what's most-displayed in a Big Box store.

I was brand-agnostic when I started that analysis; or if anything, biased towards Sony, then Olympus. If I'd known that I would become entranced with IR and actinic (UV-violet-blue) light, and other spectrum-slicing, I might have bought a Sigma or Fujica forensic body, and forced myself to pay premium prices for Nikon glass. Maybe I'll get a forensic cam anyway, and use adapters to mount Pentax glass. It's certainly easier and cleaner than using exotic film.

Again, most would-be purchasers probably don't look at all the options, don't even KNOW that other options exist. It's a big world out there, with zillions of formats. Some years ago on the shores of Lake Atitlan, Guatemala, I discussed imaging with a UC-Berkeley photo-prof and his U-Lima-Peru art-prof lady. I whined that digicams weren't REALLY photographic, that the resolutions possible then weren't in the same universe as film. They said: Art Does Not Depend On The Pixel Count. Significant images can be produced with almost anything. Within specific realms, specific gear may be necessary; but in general, use whatever works. I just don't see myself ever NEEDING another Canon.

Last edited by RioRico; 03-02-2010 at 01:47 PM.
03-02-2010, 05:56 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
. . .

I was brand-agnostic when I started that analysis; or if anything, biased towards Sony, then Olympus. If I'd known that I would become entranced with IR and actinic (UV-violet-blue) light, and other spectrum-slicing, I might have bought a Sigma or Fujica forensic body, and forced myself to pay premium prices for Nikon glass. Maybe I'll get a forensic cam anyway, and use adapters to mount Pentax glass. It's certainly easier and cleaner than using exotic film.
. . .
There's always Pentax's UV 85mm lens but it isn't cheap!
03-06-2010, 07:22 AM   #37
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What always amuses me most is that I see Pentax users here and 4/3 users elsewhere making the exact same ignorant claims (or near enough) about each other's systems. Their glass is mediocre, the sensors they use are inferior and incapable of producing quality images, no professional could possibly use them... and of course, the ever-prevalent "they'll dissapear from the market within the next couple years."

Ironic, since both of them have some of the best glass in the business, share the same spirit of producing compact and weathersealed products for adventurous people, both systems have proven highly capable of incredible images (by those who go take pictures rather than arguing about how their system is the best), there are small groups of professionals who do their work with either system, and both systems have only been getting stronger in the last several years.

Both communities also commonly post threads complaining about the ignorance and discrimination they recieve from users of other brands (particularly Canon and Nikon), and then many of their users turn around and ignorantly bash the other brands, and then seem to think that's somehow different from what they were complaining about.

On a positive note, the K-x seems to have caused a lot of people to take notice of the fact that Pentax is a perfectly decent camera company. Where previously any mention of Pentax would just get blown off casually in many places (eh, they're not really any good. Go buy a D40), canikonylympus fanboys are now often now suggesting the K-x as a viable alternative to their own brands' entry-level cameras, and many even seem to be discovering that there's an actual lens selection and that it's largely excellent.
03-06-2010, 09:40 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
What always amuses me most is that I see Pentax users here and 4/3 users elsewhere making the exact same ignorant claims (or near enough) about each other's systems. Their glass is mediocre, the sensors they use are inferior and incapable of producing quality images, no professional could possibly use them... and of course, the ever-prevalent "they'll dissapear from the market within the next couple years."

Ironic, since both of them have some of the best glass in the business, share the same spirit of producing compact and weathersealed products for adventurous people, both systems have proven highly capable of incredible images (by those who go take pictures rather than arguing about how their system is the best), there are small groups of professionals who do their work with either system, and both systems have only been getting stronger in the last several years.
Yeah, one certainly shouldn't harsh on the Zuiko glass. I actually considered heading into Four-Thirds a few years ago, (the idea having popped up when they were really selling E-500's cheap with the two kit lenses: that was more by way of improving on the Lumix bridge camera I was using at the time, so despite the peepy little finder and other drawbacks, it wasn't competing with much for me at the time: I figured I'd start accumulating decent lenses while I was at it, maybe get hold of an E-1, maybe look at Lumix (I like Lumix stuff) DSLRs and the likes of an E-3 down the road.

Didn't turn out to be a very good fit for me, though, and everyone else's prices coming down kind of rendered it moot. Still lots of respectable stuff, there, though. It sort of seemed that the Lumix DSLRs were taking a tack toward the 'bells and whistles' track rather than appealing to more of my old-school sensibilities, too.

They probably really are better off concentrating on the Micro-4/3 thing, really: it seems the full-sized version just didn't pan out as the tech developed. Was worth a try, I suppose.

Pentax, on the other hand, seemed to be heading more in a direction suited to me, so here we are.

Even if you don't like a given thing, a diversity of brands out there is actually good for everyone: a Canon/Nikon duopoly pretty much would mean the two of them can dictate what photo gear is going to be, and 'compete' with each other at whatever they feel like prioritizing.

Lots of options out there can really keep em honest, so there we are. Maybe the 'little guys' ought to stick together.

03-10-2010, 10:13 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote

Even if you don't like a given thing, a diversity of brands out there is actually good for everyone: a Canon/Nikon duopoly pretty much would mean the two of them can dictate what photo gear is going to be, and 'compete' with each other at whatever they feel like prioritizing.

Lots of options out there can really keep em honest, so there we are. Maybe the 'little guys' ought to stick together.
I agree totally! I would hate to see the photography world controlled by a single company the way Intel controls the computer industry.
05-25-2010, 06:19 AM   #40
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In order to finally buy my Pentax K-DSLR when the time comes I'm literally going to have to buy it in another city or online. There isn't a camera store in this town that carries the latest Pentax models that I am aware of. I spent a few years out in CA. There Pentax is always on the shelf and I got to play with the new K-DSLR's cameras and check them out vs the other cameras there quite a bit. Also, my first photography teacher, a pro who shoots fashion all the time for top magazines, he used all sorts of cameras, Pentax among them, and he had a healthy respect for them. Liked them better than almost anything except maybe Nikon, and I think he was about the same for using both. He didn't actually prefer Nikon over Pentax per se.

The very first camera he ever handed me was a Pentax and the very last camera of his I ever got to play with was a brand new Pentax DSLR. That was only for a few minutes because it was his brand new toy at the time. I had to be very careful, and he didn't let me hold it for long, laugh, but it was enough of a rewarding experience that I'm sold on getting a Pentax for my first DSLR when the time comes.

I'm not saying I won't use others, and for the record I have cameras now by Fuji (digital, S7000) and also by Canon (SLR-AE1 series) but the Pentax will be my first DSLR even if I have to save for the next 5 years to be able to afford a decent kit. I'd cheerfully choose a K-series Pentax DSLR over any other camera in the market made by anyone else, given a choice. I'm just too impressed by what I have seen of Pentax so far, from the oldest to the new.

From what I have seen a professional photographer needs more than one kit anyway so I may well buy something else someday too, but that Pentax is likely going to be my #1 camera and I don't care if anyone else likes it or not.

I don't care if 99% of the people I meet are shooting with Nikon or Canon. What I buy as a pro will need to suit ME best, and from the moment I first picked up a Pentax, a 35MM Spotmatic? That's been a Pentax camera for me. I don't know why but for me a Pentax just feels more comfortable. I have held other cameras at this point, and used a couple more, looked at dozens, but I always end up coming back to wanting one of the the Pentax K-series cameras.

I'm not against other brands. To each his or her own. But I'm definitely becoming a Pentax snob when it comes to my own personal cameras. Right now it's just my SP1, but someday I'll have a whole case full of pretty Pentax cameras, you wait and see, grin.

05-25-2010, 05:35 PM   #41
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An aquaintance recently showed of his Canon and stabilized lenses. When I told him I shoot with Pentax, I got the typical blah blah about how there aren't many lenses out there, you get better quality from Canon, etc. I told him that ALL my lenses are stabilized, and to go check out some reviews of the K-x. It really comes down to being unaware and believing accepted wisdom; I don't think it's always about snobbiness.
05-25-2010, 09:33 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by coelhom Quote
Regarding the "obnoxious" Canon and Nikon users out there and their hatred for Pentax cameras,

Coming from a Professional Photography program in Montreal, Quebec (the only English photography program in Quebec), with around 60 students all owning Nikon or Canon cameras, I think it's fair to say I feel a little outnumbered at times. I am literally the only one out of 60 students in my year who owns and uses a Pentax camera.
I only own Pentax film cameras, so Iím even more removed from the norm. Most of the time when Iím out shooting not only am I in the minority owing a Pentax camera, Iím in the minority shooting film.

I had a similar situation with a macro course I took last year. I was the only Pentax owner and the only film user. Still with my 35 year old Pentax KX film camera and K50/4 macro, I had the best final portfolio.

I wouldnít worry about what other camera ownerís think about Pentax, who really cares. Just work with the gear you have and enjoy it, in the end we all know which is best!

Phil.
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