New K7 Review finds firmware improves noise!

Sleepy · 03-02-2010, 03:35 AM

Originally posted by C.W Tsorotes

I personally still think there has been some minor hardware changes between the earlier models and later ones.

The difference in my unit between the old pcb and new lead me to think that the sensor wasn't the issue. Do the SLR's use A/D converters for the sensor to the processor?

I believe Pentax did have some hardware changes to make your K-7 perform better at high ISO.

However, I guess the only to find out is to find another K-7 which has never been sent back for repair to compare. If you really get a chance to get another K-7 to do some test, please do share the results with us.

Anyways, thanks for your information.

Nass · 03-02-2010, 03:40 AM

I don't know, I doubt they'd keep noise quiet because of that, seems like a conspiracy theory too far to me wearing my professional hat for a minute...?

If you improve something, it doesn't mean the previous version is crap - it's a positive. I'm in marketing myself and I always ALWAYS scream about positives, regardless of how small or irrellevant they may seem or are - because people love them. It means a product going forward, good positive energy. I never EVER get manufacturers or users saying "oh I won't mention that because it means the old one must have been crap", it just doesn't happen!

Kudos to them if they have put other improvements in there and if they have then the Pentax Propaganda Department really could and should do a better job of shouting it from the rooftops!

LeDave · 03-02-2010, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by Sleepy

I believe Pentax did have some hardware changes to make your K-7 perform better at high ISO.

However, I guess the only to find out is to find another K-7 which has never been sent back for repair to compare. If you really get a chance to get another K-7 to do some test, please do share the results with us.

Anyways, thanks for your information.

Either that, or his K-7 was defected in the first place and they only fixed it.

Sleepy · 03-02-2010, 03:58 AM

Originally posted by LeDave

Either that, or his K-7 was defected in the first place and they only fixed it.

That's pretty possible so that I think the only way to find out is to get another K-7 to compare. ^_^

Christopher M.W.T · 03-02-2010, 04:06 AM

Another example we're a dealer and installer of Speakercraft (Multizone audio systems) they have iPod Docks but weren't fully compatible with the Iphone as it wouldn't charge.

However quietly and without any mention to dealers they started shipping their iPod docks from December with a minor pin change to allow iPhone charging.

Possible reason? well it makes sense if you want to empty your inventory of older stock.

dreilly · 03-02-2010, 08:15 AM

I'd like to see more proof of the firmware upgrade's effect on other K-7 models. The comparative images thus far posted are really not convincing or dramatic. I think I see a different grain structure in the later-firmware images, then I look again and think I don't.

CW, not discounting at all what you are seeing, I just want to see it replicated in other cameras. In other words, we need a higher N here to make a conclusion.

That said, I hope it's true. The K-7 is wonderful. More wonderful is always welcome!

Christopher M.W.T · 03-02-2010, 03:24 PM

I think it'd be more fitting to get ones hands on an original K7 with Ver 1.00 and compare it to a newly shipped model from the factoyr with 1.03.

That'll prove my theory.

JohnBee · 03-02-2010, 09:28 PM

The 7D shot is definiately worthy of a mention!!!

On a side note, our beloved cat "Pompom Puffy" has been missing for well over two weeks now.
I fear the worst and couldn't bring myself to post a pic of him at this time.

Jonson PL · 03-03-2010, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by harleynitelite

To the proud K7 owners out there, I thought you may be interested in this review comparing the K7 to the Canon 50d. The review was completed on Feb 26th and apparently with the latest firmware update. The following is word for word from the review...

"I'm pretty astounded by the Pentax and how it controls noise. When I tested the camera against four other similar models, the camera hadn't had a firmware update so it looks as though the update has improved the noise control somewhat. There is still some noise coming through at ISO800 and ISO1,600 although nowhere near as much as previously. It's great news and does do a better job than the Canon although the ISO6,400 equivalent does have blue specks all over it."

Canon EOS 50D vs Pentax K-7 Digital SLR Review

Enjoy!

Thanks for the link. I found the review a good read.
I believe some firmware updates can have multiple uses. So they may not mention all areas affected. Good to hear that improvement in noise control has been observed

Christopher M.W.T · 03-05-2010, 03:36 AM

Interesting --- the NX10 uses the 14.6mp Samsung sensor to....

Dramatically improved 14.6MP Samsung CMOS sensor?: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Supporting my previous remarks, I have actually been informed from a contact in the service side that there has apparently there has been some changes/revisions to the K7 hardware and newer K7's released have newer boards, coupled with Firmware 1.03 has improved noise somewhat.

They wouldn't tell me what the changes were other than some hardware revision.

LeDave · 03-05-2010, 04:05 AM

C.W Tsorotes, I'm calling in BS until there's some more sources out there and more credibility, unless you supposedly mean they changed out all that hardware from what could've been your defected K-7 to a properly working one.

However at this time if you are correct about the claim of newer K-7's, then Pentax better hope they swap out my supposedly what you would claim "old" sensor for the newer ones unless they want to change the K-7's name to K-7-2 or something. But at this time whatever rumors you're trying to stir up, you might have to try better than that.

And for the new NX10, yeah Samsung does use the same sensor as the Gx20/K20D and K-7 also, you're a little bit late on that one. ----> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/off-brand-camera-discussion-canon-nikon-e...eview-dpr.html

Christopher M.W.T · 03-05-2010, 04:27 AM

Originally posted by LeDave

C.W Tsorotes, I'm calling in BS until there's some more sources out there and more credibility, unless you supposedly mean they changed out all that hardware from what could've been your defected K-7 to a properly working one.

However at this time if you are correct about the claim of newer K-7's, then Pentax better hope they swap out my supposedly what you would claim "old" sensor for the newer ones unless they want to change the K-7's name to K-7-2 or something. But at this time whatever rumors you're trying to stir up, you might have to try better than that.

And for the new NX10, yeah Samsung does use the same sensor as the Gx20/K20D and K-7 also, you're a little bit late on that one. ----> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/off-brand-camera-discussion-canon-nikon-e...eview-dpr.html

I'm only going off what I got told today.

The only evidence I have to support it is the considerable improvement in my K7's high ISO performance. I should have worded it better, the sensor is the same the apparent revision was to the camera mainboard.

Guess we'll know soon enough if it's true or not.

Jonson PL · 03-05-2010, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by C.W Tsorotes

I'm only going off what I got told today.

The only evidence I have to support it is the considerable improvement in my K7's high ISO performance. I should have worded it better, the sensor is the same the apparent revision was to the camera mainboard.

Guess we'll know soon enough if it's true or not.

Sounds about the same, from what happened to the K10. Earlier copies had bad higher Iso. But the ones late in production cycle had way better high Iso from the same sensor. My K10 can barely do Iso 1250, others and the K200 have little problem with also using Iso 1600.

I would have preferred, if it was only firmware help, which had improved the performance. But it seems hardware related.

dlacouture · 03-05-2010, 05:19 AM

Yep, I got my k10 replaced by a newer one once by Pentax France, and high iso were definitely better on the second body...

That's quite unsurprising, frankly : I'm sure they do some small changes in components providers and board design once the first batches are out and the first service center calls in with some defects...

Christopher M.W.T · 03-05-2010, 03:47 PM

Dunno.

It's interesting that if the NX10 has the same Sensor as the K7 and apparent High ISO performance then that would mean the issue isn't/wasn't the sensor and its in the image processing.

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03-02-2010, 03:35 AM	#46
Sleepy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Miami Photos: Gallery Posts: 133	Originally posted by C.W Tsorotes I personally still think there has been some minor hardware changes between the earlier models and later ones. The difference in my unit between the old pcb and new lead me to think that the sensor wasn't the issue. Do the SLR's use A/D converters for the sensor to the processor? I believe Pentax did have some hardware changes to make your K-7 perform better at high ISO. However, I guess the only to find out is to find another K-7 which has never been sent back for repair to compare. If you really get a chance to get another K-7 to do some test, please do share the results with us. Anyways, thanks for your information.

03-02-2010, 03:40 AM	#47
Nass Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The British Isles Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,402	I don't know, I doubt they'd keep noise quiet because of that, seems like a conspiracy theory too far to me wearing my professional hat for a minute...? If you improve something, it doesn't mean the previous version is crap - it's a positive. I'm in marketing myself and I always ALWAYS scream about positives, regardless of how small or irrellevant they may seem or are - because people love them. It means a product going forward, good positive energy. I never EVER get manufacturers or users saying "oh I won't mention that because it means the old one must have been crap", it just doesn't happen! Kudos to them if they have put other improvements in there and if they have then the Pentax Propaganda Department really could and should do a better job of shouting it from the rooftops!

03-02-2010, 03:40 AM	#48
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	Originally posted by Sleepy I believe Pentax did have some hardware changes to make your K-7 perform better at high ISO. However, I guess the only to find out is to find another K-7 which has never been sent back for repair to compare. If you really get a chance to get another K-7 to do some test, please do share the results with us. Anyways, thanks for your information. Either that, or his K-7 was defected in the first place and they only fixed it.

03-02-2010, 03:58 AM	#49
Sleepy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Miami Photos: Gallery Posts: 133	Originally posted by LeDave Either that, or his K-7 was defected in the first place and they only fixed it. That's pretty possible so that I think the only way to find out is to get another K-7 to compare. ^_^

03-02-2010, 04:06 AM	#50
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	Another example we're a dealer and installer of Speakercraft (Multizone audio systems) they have iPod Docks but weren't fully compatible with the Iphone as it wouldn't charge. However quietly and without any mention to dealers they started shipping their iPod docks from December with a minor pin change to allow iPhone charging. Possible reason? well it makes sense if you want to empty your inventory of older stock.

03-02-2010, 08:15 AM	#51
dreilly Inactive Account Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Geneva, NY Posts: 72	I'd like to see more proof of the firmware upgrade's effect on other K-7 models. The comparative images thus far posted are really not convincing or dramatic. I think I see a different grain structure in the later-firmware images, then I look again and think I don't. CW, not discounting at all what you are seeing, I just want to see it replicated in other cameras. In other words, we need a higher N here to make a conclusion. That said, I hope it's true. The K-7 is wonderful. More wonderful is always welcome!

03-02-2010, 03:24 PM	#52
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	I think it'd be more fitting to get ones hands on an original K7 with Ver 1.00 and compare it to a newly shipped model from the factoyr with 1.03. That'll prove my theory.

03-02-2010, 09:28 PM	#53
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	The 7D shot is definiately worthy of a mention!!! On a side note, our beloved cat "Pompom Puffy" has been missing for well over two weeks now. I fear the worst and couldn't bring myself to post a pic of him at this time.

03-03-2010, 03:19 PM	#54
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by harleynitelite To the proud K7 owners out there, I thought you may be interested in this review comparing the K7 to the Canon 50d. The review was completed on Feb 26th and apparently with the latest firmware update. The following is word for word from the review... "I'm pretty astounded by the Pentax and how it controls noise. When I tested the camera against four other similar models, the camera hadn't had a firmware update so it looks as though the update has improved the noise control somewhat. There is still some noise coming through at ISO800 and ISO1,600 although nowhere near as much as previously. It's great news and does do a better job than the Canon although the ISO6,400 equivalent does have blue specks all over it." Canon EOS 50D vs Pentax K-7 Digital SLR Review Enjoy! Thanks for the link. I found the review a good read. I believe some firmware updates can have multiple uses. So they may not mention all areas affected. Good to hear that improvement in noise control has been observed

03-05-2010, 03:36 AM	#55
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	Interesting --- the NX10 uses the 14.6mp Samsung sensor to.... Dramatically improved 14.6MP Samsung CMOS sensor?: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review Supporting my previous remarks, I have actually been informed from a contact in the service side that there has apparently there has been some changes/revisions to the K7 hardware and newer K7's released have newer boards, coupled with Firmware 1.03 has improved noise somewhat. They wouldn't tell me what the changes were other than some hardware revision.

03-05-2010, 04:05 AM	#56
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	C.W Tsorotes, I'm calling in BS until there's some more sources out there and more credibility, unless you supposedly mean they changed out all that hardware from what could've been your defected K-7 to a properly working one. However at this time if you are correct about the claim of newer K-7's, then Pentax better hope they swap out my supposedly what you would claim "old" sensor for the newer ones unless they want to change the K-7's name to K-7-2 or something. But at this time whatever rumors you're trying to stir up, you might have to try better than that. And for the new NX10, yeah Samsung does use the same sensor as the Gx20/K20D and K-7 also, you're a little bit late on that one. ----> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/off-brand-camera-discussion-canon-nikon-e...eview-dpr.html

03-05-2010, 04:27 AM	#57
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	Originally posted by LeDave C.W Tsorotes, I'm calling in BS until there's some more sources out there and more credibility, unless you supposedly mean they changed out all that hardware from what could've been your defected K-7 to a properly working one. However at this time if you are correct about the claim of newer K-7's, then Pentax better hope they swap out my supposedly what you would claim "old" sensor for the newer ones unless they want to change the K-7's name to K-7-2 or something. But at this time whatever rumors you're trying to stir up, you might have to try better than that. And for the new NX10, yeah Samsung does use the same sensor as the Gx20/K20D and K-7 also, you're a little bit late on that one. ----> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/off-brand-camera-discussion-canon-nikon-e...eview-dpr.html I'm only going off what I got told today. The only evidence I have to support it is the considerable improvement in my K7's high ISO performance. I should have worded it better, the sensor is the same the apparent revision was to the camera mainboard. Guess we'll know soon enough if it's true or not.

03-05-2010, 04:45 AM	#58
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by C.W Tsorotes I'm only going off what I got told today. The only evidence I have to support it is the considerable improvement in my K7's high ISO performance. I should have worded it better, the sensor is the same the apparent revision was to the camera mainboard. Guess we'll know soon enough if it's true or not. Sounds about the same, from what happened to the K10. Earlier copies had bad higher Iso. But the ones late in production cycle had way better high Iso from the same sensor. My K10 can barely do Iso 1250, others and the K200 have little problem with also using Iso 1600. I would have preferred, if it was only firmware help, which had improved the performance. But it seems hardware related.

03-05-2010, 05:19 AM	#59
dlacouture Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Var, South of France Photos: Albums Posts: 1,074	Yep, I got my k10 replaced by a newer one once by Pentax France, and high iso were definitely better on the second body... That's quite unsurprising, frankly : I'm sure they do some small changes in components providers and board design once the first batches are out and the first service center calls in with some defects...

03-05-2010, 03:47 PM	#60
Christopher M.W.T Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,689	Dunno. It's interesting that if the NX10 has the same Sensor as the K7 and apparent High ISO performance then that would mean the issue isn't/wasn't the sensor and its in the image processing.