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07-08-2007, 11:47 AM   #16
PDL
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I shoot digital just like I shot slide film - expose for the highlights because clear acetate is just that - clear, nothing can be recovered.

With digital is usually is not as bad as that - but almost. Remember that the metering system see only grey and 18% at that. Point the meter at the object that you want to be in the middle.

I use the histogram too - but when I shoot I am more interesting in looking through the viewfinder rather than chimping. If you chimp each shot and you shoot 200/300 frames - you will find yourself looking down at the camera and missing the "good" ones.

Practice - practice - practice -=> Experience - the only way to go.

PDL

07-08-2007, 08:46 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
I use the histogram too - but when I shoot I am more interesting in looking through the viewfinder rather than chimping. If you chimp each shot and you shoot 200/300 frames - you will find yourself looking down at the camera and missing the "good" ones.

Practice - practice - practice -=> Experience - the only way to go.
These discussions are always interesting, in part because I like to talk about theory and technique, but also because these discussions follow a certain pattern. Whenever I get involved in one, somebody says A, then somebody comes along and points out that A is true but you can't forget B, then somebody remarks that A and B are fine as long as you have C covered, too. You don't want to blow the highlights because once they're blown, they're gone and can't be recovered. But of course, some highlights don't count as much as some others, and pushing to the right of the histogram may actually save more detail data than it risks losing. But the third person observes that if you pay too much attention to the LCD you'll miss the shot and that experience will let you make the right exposure without thinking too hard.

And everybody is right. Except that I'm willing to acknowledge that PDL is the most right. Practice leading to experience trumps everything.

But that makes for much less interesting forum threads. :-)

Will
07-09-2007, 03:02 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
My biggest beef...and this has been stated a billion times before by others, was noise and exposure issues with my M42 lenses. All in all I did get some great shots. Give me a K10D "super" (haha!) with a 6mp sensor and proper metering with legacy lenses and I'm set for life. That being said, lighting conditions were probably the worst any photographer could ask for, so all things considering, I'm please with the results. I'd give the camera an academic equivalent of a "B" for this outing. Results should be very pleasing with 4x6 prints and web photos!
You're right, on all counts.

What I've done is swap the focus screen from my DS into my K10 and the exposure curve flattened. I haven't noticed that it is any easier or more difficult to focus. (You can find replacement DS screens at B&H and other suppliers - the same benefits do not come from KatzEye or other brand screens AFAIK.)

As to the noise, I am seriously considering the *ist D camera. It is small and slow (writing times are atrocious) but as a backup, having almost all the controls I want and throwing in a real TTL sensor might be the right solution. But since you've got your nice spate of M42 lenses, why not go with a used Minolta 7D? I read yesterday that they made an 'M' focus screen that is slightly darker but has a matte made more for manual focus lenses. I'd bet this solves the 7D exposure problems, which are worse than the K10. I'm considering that, too, since I can at least share batteries between them.
07-09-2007, 06:32 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
You're right, on all counts.
Yes I am, thank you for stating it so eloquently

QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
What I've done is swap the focus screen from my DS into my K10 and the exposure curve flattened. I haven't noticed that it is any easier or more difficult to focus. (You can find replacement DS screens at B&H and other suppliers - the same benefits do not come from KatzEye or other brand screens AFAIK.)
The Katzeye isn't bad...I can't say if it that it has changed the curves slightly. I am thinking of selling or pocketing my current version and replacing it with something else. I foolishly went with the opti-brite coating which would be bad for the k10 metering if anything. I also find that I rarely use the split prism., just the microprism, so the DS screen may be the way to go. Thanks for the heads up.

QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
As to the noise, I am seriously considering the *ist D camera. It is small and slow (writing times are atrocious) but as a backup, having almost all the controls I want and throwing in a real TTL sensor might be the right solution. But since you've got your nice spate of M42 lenses, why not go with a used Minolta 7D? I read yesterday that they made an 'M' focus screen that is slightly darker but has a matte made more for manual focus lenses. I'd bet this solves the 7D exposure problems, which are worse than the K10. I'm considering that, too, since I can at least share batteries between them.
You and I think very similarly Sean. I have a 7D still in the family with a few AF lenses, so I was considering stealing it back since it's been a tank, 100% reliable and no BF issues after an initial adjustment. I'd just have to replace it with a 5D or 7D so I don't leave 'em out in the cold

The one annoying thing would be to lose the anti-shake, which is what made me think k100d...so I can specify the focal length. Tests I have seen and tried suggest the minoltas default to a set focal length for AS and so it doesn't function properly on other lens lengths.

Otherwise I think it's a decent plan. The battery deal almost seals it for me! I'd be proud to hang both bodies around my neck and have my bag full of takumars1

07-09-2007, 07:28 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
The one annoying thing would be to lose the anti-shake, which is what made me think k100d...so I can specify the focal length. Tests I have seen and tried suggest the minoltas default to a set focal length for AS and so it doesn't function properly on other lens lengths.

Otherwise I think it's a decent plan. The battery deal almost seals it for me! I'd be proud to hang both bodies around my neck and have my bag full of takumars1
I read that Minolta's Anti-Shake defaults to around 50mm.

But I have to say that I don't find the Pentax Anti-Shake to work on my short-telephoto and wider lenses. I'm sure it does *something* (like if you sit it on a lawn mower) and I will concede that with the 300mm it seems to produce some sharp shots. But with my 135mm and shorter focal lengths I just see it screwing up the photo more often than fixing it. I know, it is a heretical statement here, but I didn't want a shakey sensor in the first place.

My only fear about getting a 7D is the 'First Black Frame' syndrome which has hit 1 out of 2 of my friends' bodies. Other than that, it is an ergonomic wonder. (It also allows you to dial in exposure compensation with the scroll wheel...please Pentax?!? Pretty please?!?)
07-09-2007, 07:42 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
But I have to say that I don't find the Pentax Anti-Shake to work on my short-telephoto and wider lenses. I'm sure it does *something* (like if you sit it on a lawn mower) and I will concede that with the 300mm it seems to produce some sharp shots. But with my 135mm and shorter focal lengths I just see it screwing up the photo more often than fixing it. I know, it is a heretical statement here, but I didn't want a shakey sensor in the first place.
Agreed, at least that's what I saw during my wedding shoot as I had mentioned. 50mm with a lower hit rate (specifically due to shake) than an 85mm? Surely it can't be all my fault, I don't think I'm that inconsistent.

QuoteOriginally posted by carpents Quote
My only fear about getting a 7D is the 'First Black Frame' syndrome which has hit 1 out of 2 of my friends' bodies. Other than that, it is an ergonomic wonder. (It also allows you to dial in exposure compensation with the scroll wheel...please Pentax?!? Pretty please?!?)
The 7D is ergo-glorious, no doubt. The exposure curve is TOUGH do deal with, even with the exposure knob. You are right too, the black frame should in fact be feared.

Here's an idea: use the K10D as an outdoor wildlife / tele / portrait body, and the 7D as a low light / wide / portrait body....?
07-09-2007, 09:48 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by d.bradley Quote
The 7D is ergo-glorious, no doubt. The exposure curve is TOUGH do deal with, even with the exposure knob. You are right too, the black frame should in fact be feared.
It looks like Minolta made the same judgment call that Pentax did - namely, that a brighter screen that works with AutoEverything lenses is better than a darker screen that works with manual ones, too. I read this morning about Minolta producing 'M' and 'ML' focus screens for manual focus lenses. It wasn't clear how/where to get them, it seemed unfortunately that only the authorized service center could do the replacement. But if it was only a backup body anyway, maybe going to the shop for a few weeks would be tolerable.

(Minolta shots do sometimes have too much magenta in them. It bothers me occasionally. But then again, sometimes Pentax greens are too yellow.)
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