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07-09-2007, 12:36 AM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by RMabo Quote
I believe that what Pentax lacks in many countries are pro-support and service. If you are working pro, you can't wait one or two weeks to have your equipment serviced and fixed, you need at least a replacement the same day. Pro's also needs a hiring facility for those big telelenses that cost as much as a small car. If Pentax are interrested in the pro market, they need to set up a pro-oriented operation or division at their distributors. Pro's seldom want to go through the standard consumer channels, they need salespersons and servicepersonell that understand the needs of the professionals and talks their language.

Take care
R
Well I have to agree here.
If Pentax had a similar service like Nikon with the NPS and Canon with their CPS, it would be a lot easier to get you're stuff fixed when it is broken.
I would love to see Pentax doing the same(so I don't have to wait a month to get my K10D and 540 FGZ fixed) like Nikon and Canon.


@benjikan: How does Pentax France handle this ? Is there a Pro-service from Pentax ?

07-09-2007, 12:46 AM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
The K10 is still faster at anything above EV6 even according to pop-photo.
Yes, it is marginally faster. But they did the test with the kit lens. It is well known that Nikon's kit lenses are not particularly fast for the AF.

For primes and "heavier" lenses that are faster in speed, I'm quite sure Nikon will win again here, even in the bright. Nonetheless, this is my own opinions from my own experiences, though. There is NO measurbation result to be based on.

But, and but, didn't I talk about "low light AF performance" and quote the Popphoto in my first reply post in this thread? (I have never quoted PopPhoto to prove my opinions of "slow AF" in my reply)

QuoteQuote:
So presumably you also agree with his other comments, like this one....

"Fast - really fast! AF speed and the accuracy of the K10D are impressive even with the cheap kit lenses and also in dark conditions. The brilliant AF speed also shows up in continuous AF mode."

Hmm - seems you have a selective ability to see the negative and miss the positive. I absolutely agree with Klaus too but you clearly do not, so how come you agree with all his other points?
Nope. You're wrong. I disagreed with Klaus long ago at his forum when he published the above comments in his thread about his new review test report. If you could find the thread, interestingly, quite some of the Pentaxians responded told exactly the same, including the one who borrowed the lens for Klaus for testing! Interesting enough?

Yes, I do select comments or evidence that agree with my own experiences and to support my opinions but I'm afraid that everyone here or at any forums are doing the same. Aren't YOU?
07-09-2007, 12:52 AM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
The issue is - arguing with RH is like trying to explain that pushing a chain uphill is not the smartest endevor to undertake. If you catch my drift.

I like your analogy. Anyway, I was just kidding around. I know it's a hopeless cause.


QuoteQuote:
As for Ben's original thesis - Pro's use what they need to use. I know pro's that use C*non, N*kon, 4x5, 8x10 and (if I may borrow Ben for the sake of arguement) Pentax. Some of these guys even use Holga's one of the pro's who uses a C*non knows another pro who published a series/book of images taken with a cell phone. Pro's use what they use - go to PhotoEye and look at their gallery - look at the "types" of media. Large format, Medium format, 35mm, digital and ---- gasp ---- plastic. People who ask questions about what camera is being used are missing the issue.

It is about the image, all about the image - not the tool.

I agree entirely. This is one of the very few fields where so many are obsessed with the tools instead of the finished product. Most people don't ask what hammer was used to build that house, what computer was used to produce that report, what sewing machine was used to make that shirt, or whatever. Likewise, one rarely sees construction workers arguring about which hammer brand is best.

Regardless, I endlessly run into those who feel compelled to promote their particular brand whenever I mention Pentax. For example, when my K10D arrived in the mail, the postal worker noticed the store name on the box and asked about the contents. This wasn't the first time. Since he is interested in photography, he has asked my wife previously about other boxes obviously containing photo equipment. During those discussions, he has learned about some of the equipment I use and the fact that I'm a pro photographer.

Anyway, when I said the box contained a new Pentax, a discussion followed about how he owned a K1000 years ago and now owns a Nikon. While I agreed his Nikon was indeed nice, I added the reasons I purchased the K10D. That seemed to challenged his choice, resulting in a defense of his camera along with a few condescending remarks about Pentax. The most memorable was about Nikon being a "pro" camera versus Pentax not being so, which was pretty darn silly coming from a postal worker talking to a pro photographer with his new Pentax.

stewart
07-09-2007, 08:32 AM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Nope. You're wrong. I disagreed with Klaus long ago at his forum when he published the above comments in his thread about his new review test report. If you could find the thread, interestingly, quite some of the Pentaxians responded told exactly the same, including the one who borrowed the lens for Klaus for testing! Interesting enough?

Yes, I do select comments or evidence that agree with my own experiences and to support my opinions but I'm afraid that everyone here or at any forums are doing the same. Aren't YOU?
So you admit that its lens dependent? So you agree that unless AF tests are averaged over a comparable range of lenses they are meaningless. Read through Photozone and you will see that lenses have massive variations in AF speed irrespective of the camera.

So find me PROOF that the K10D has the issues you say. Your opinions are worth nothing to me since I don't believe 99% of what you write. You have been bashing Pentax for so long, and dedicated so much time and effort to it, that I can only assume you are either paid by Nikon or have an obsessive compulsive disorder but your opinions hold no weight with me or anyone else on this forum.

Personally I think you have picked a K10D up a couple of times but have never used it in anger to do any serious comparative shooting.

07-09-2007, 11:08 AM   #50
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"I could see sample photos of sports but have never seen continuous (series of) action photos which tracked a randomly moving subject here or elsewhere, by any Pentax DSLRs. I can see those from Nikons and Canons on the net and magazines instead, frankly speaking.

Sometimes people do mix up with action/sport and continuous action photography (for randomly and/or fast moving objects).

A subject who is doing sport and in action but not moving radically is easily to capture or pre-focused at somewhere. Good example are basketball games at the bracket, track and field sports at the "lines", swimming games, etc. More than two decades ago, I used only a Ricoh XR-1 (full manual SLR) and a XR-20 (of course still a MF SLR) (and used the FM2 for a few times) to shoot those "more stationary" sport events. No problem there. As I mostly prefocused and wait the object to fall in my "trap". So, those pictures you mentioned mean nothing.

For a radically moving subject which's moving path is random and fast enough, then the AF system of the camera is something that we must rely on. I don't think our hands and nerves can be fast enough to track those things.

So, I am now talking about the AF tracking ability differences between camera, in response to the OP started discussions about the pro DSLRs and the differences between the K10D and D200 (or Pentax Vs Nikon or so).

Quote:
And how come you never posted your own measurebating about the other cameras? Apparently, you had access to ALL of them all along. Or they just suddenly appeared at your friends' sides all of a sudden while posting your last reply?
What's the ground of yours to make such insult and strong statements in strongly hintin that I'm lying? It's all my good willness to share my personal things to you guys here but it doesn't mean you shoudl impose insult to myself personally.

The civil thing is that we should discuss the gear and its pros and cons and the grounds as long as no personal attack is imposed. I think it's the basic for participating in a forum.

Still, anyone can search my name and the model to see if I had actually made posts and comments before on these machines, say, "RiceHigh and D200" or "RiceHigh and 30D", on the net. Still, even I did not comment on other gear before, you still had and have no ground in hinting strongly that I am lying. <b>You owe me an apology.</b>

The case was I did comment on the D200 and the 30D before on the net, if you could find them. But then it is totally irrevelant to your groundless insult anyway. I did comment that Pentax's image quality was good or better for some of my posts in some shooting situations, of course when the camera did it righ, or shoot RAW to compensate. But then you particular folks just always remember the "negative" (actual I found them to be true before I say anything) speeches of mine (but always forget the my "positive" statements about Pentax).

Finally, I just wish to ask: do you and can you read every and all posts I made and do you go out for shooting with me everytime? (before you made statement in strongly hinting someone is lying - you can deny but everyone have read here can judge, not only the current Pentaxians)"

i forgot to hit the quote button.





i have some very nice scoccker photos and i have some what i like to say pull up and shoot photos

these photos i was walking or just walking all i did was put the camera up and shoot no pre focusing. the where all shot with a K100D i have more examples but not enff room lol. i have shot with Nikon and Cannon and i LIKE both but my K100D and K10D i feel are = in the AF department, i have yet to meet a AF that i am 100% happy with but in my experience Pentax is holding there own.















scoccker photos









07-09-2007, 11:50 AM   #51
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nathancombs
not to worry, your work speaks for it's self. Have yet to see ricehigh post any of his work-makes it easier to critisize someone else.
07-09-2007, 06:41 PM   #52
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Nathancombs, your non verbal narrative is exquisite.
07-09-2007, 07:30 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by kent vinyard Quote
nathancombs
not to worry, your work speaks for it's self. Have yet to see ricehigh post any of his work-makes it easier to critisize someone else.
thank you

well i do not think his comments are that bad

"I could see sample photos of sports but have never seen continuous (series of) action photos which tracked a randomly moving subject here or elsewhere, by any Pentax DSLRs"

there are not a lot of people i have found shooting a lot of sports with Pentax cameras, there may be i just have not met them yet lol (they should lol) Cannon and Nikon have cornnerd that market and he just has not met any one that dues it. also Pentax is not used by people that need faster AF like war photographers. i bet if you went to Iraq now no photoj would have a K10D or K100D. me persnly i would use mine no problem with my K1000 and a older Leica range finder as back up. no ofence to Pentax BUT there is little that brake one of thows things lol, i have seen one from WW2 that took a bullet and works fine. that and if i was being kid napped a older Leica is a good thing to hit some one with

"So, I am now talking about the AF tracking ability differences between camera, in response to the OP started discussions about the pro DSLRs and the differences between the K10D and D200 (or Pentax Vs Nikon or so)."

i think this is up to each indvgal photographer. i have used Nikons in fact LIKE them, but i have no problem keeping up with the other photographers that use the 1D mark --- and the D what ever. that is me and my experience some one may have had other experiences or just perferr one over the other.

a lot of the argument is been from people quoting this artcal or that one. the reason i put up the photos is that in the field i do not think they matter a lot.

it all up to me the photographer, if i would have missed any of thows photos it would have been my falt not my camera


Last edited by nathancombs; 07-09-2007 at 07:38 PM.
07-09-2007, 07:57 PM   #54
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My Last Reply to You, Steve.

QuoteOriginally posted by *isteve Quote
So you admit that its lens dependent? So you agree that unless AF tests are averaged over a comparable range of lenses they are meaningless. Read through Photozone and you will see that lenses have massive variations in AF speed irrespective of the camera.
Yes, AF speed can vary with lenses and it is normal. But the key point is about the inability to focus fast (sluggish response and with huntings) at low light of the K DSLRs at moderate and low light which has been shown by the PopPhoto report, even for the same lens used. The inability shows the major weakness of the K cameras when they are compared head to head to other true up-market DSLRs.

Furthermore, as I have repeated a few time in this thread, another weakness of Pentax DSLRs is the inability to track moving objects in AF-C mode with good enough hit rate, even when central single AF point is selected, not to even mention about when auto wide AF points are selected.

QuoteQuote:
So find me PROOF that the K10D has the issues you say.

Your opinions are worth nothing to me since I don't believe 99% of what you write.
PROOF has already been given for times in this thread and I won't repeat for you as you will never accept these facts.

Furthermore, I have suggested the way to test and compare different cameras. Anyone can try on this, including yourself. E.g., put the camera in AF-C *and* continuous shooting mode and track a moving object to see if the frame rate can be kept, how serious the hunting will be and how many frames will be in-focus!

QuoteQuote:
You have been bashing Pentax for so long, and dedicated so much time and effort to it, that I can only assume you are either paid by Nikon or have an obsessive compulsive disorder but your opinions hold no weight with me or anyone else on this forum.
Silly! First, people like you who always have conspiracy theory in mind and keep saying that Nikon and Canon gives money to me is indeed rather silly. Firstly, C and N has no need and won't bother to do such thing to harm Pentax as Pentax is not really and has never been a true competitor of them. Secondly, you have no ground in questioning my honesty and it is surely an insult which all you folks for saying so owe me an apology! Thirdly, I don't need their money (and I have more than enough for the cost of such photo gear) and my interests are solely in using photo gear to take photos with minmal errors and also to report back truly my findings, without any restrictions.

You should note that my Blog even has no Google Adsense installed. It is my strong principle to do thing all by myself, independently, without any money or benefit involved when I talk and write on the net.

If you say it is an disorder of mine, I can say the same to all you blind brand loyalists who always respond to me in a personal way for the common behaviour of yours I can see - why always overreact and start to attack others *personally* when one/I *always* only talk and write about gear and explain my grounds and references as well.

Further discussion is only welcome as long as you adhere closely to the topic and discussing *only* ABOUT GEAR, NOT ABOUT PERSON. So, I think this post mark the end of our conversation and I shall not respond to you, Steve, anymore, in this thread.

QuoteQuote:
Personally I think you have picked a K10D up a couple of times but have never used it in anger to do any serious comparative shooting.
I think I have told the forum community for how I used and compared the K10D against other DSLRs and I won't repeat. Of course, the K10D is not owned by me (as I also told this) but this is irrelevant for the point that I couldn't comment on it based on my experiences on using it, and most important, the results seen. As I also did the same for the 30D and the D200.
07-09-2007, 08:28 PM   #55
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hay man no afence to you but i shoot at night a LOT and i can put up photos that show that i do. i personally believe that the K10D and K100D work just fine at night. i have had as much problems with them as any other.
07-09-2007, 08:36 PM   #56
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a really good exaple is this story
The Photograph: Robbery - Feb. 6, 2007

the top l hand photo, it is the robery suspect in the back of the police car, i was standing on the drivers sied he was on the passger sied, the 2 black things are bars on the windo on my sied it was night time and i was shooting thow to the oppsit sied of the car threw a windo. now that is a trick shot with AF.

Last edited by nathancombs; 07-09-2007 at 08:42 PM.
07-09-2007, 08:58 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
...
Furthermore, I have suggested the way to test and compare different cameras. Anyone can try on this, including yourself. E.g., put the camera in AF-C *and* continuous shooting mode and track a moving object to see if the frame rate can be kept, how serious the hunting will be and how many frames will be in-focus!
....
Hello. I have done this alot with Canon (don't remember model but new last year), Nikon (D70s), Leica (Rsomething) and Pentax (DS2).

All cameras had variable frame rate, Canon and Pentax the worst, depending on storage media. With an extreme-something number card frame rate seemed continuous, with some cheap SD cards I bought in emergency the frame rate was very inconsistent, for all of the above camera makes.

All of them hunted for focus so much that I abandoned and went to manual focus. The more I try autofocus the more dissatisfied I am with it: very self critical I believe I've never got a sharp photo using autofocus, and also now believe any body arguing autofocus speed performance just truly doesn't know what they're talking about producing real photos for a real purpose.
07-09-2007, 09:12 PM   #58
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I think that brand loyalism is a bit silly! I just like to see nicely compossed, sharp images with great colour and I believe the Pentax system delivers those important aspects along with every other brand that has a decent photographer looking through the viewfinder. Think about it, nearly all brands accept a few namely Canon share sensors so we all have the same hobbies it's just that some drive Holdens and some drive Fords. The rivalry will always be there but that doesn't mean crap about which brand is better. One last thing, if you rely on AF solely then you're really missing out on what makes the Pentax system great. Rather than post comparisons between one brand and the other have a look at the photos "they say a thousand words" about the photographer not the brand!! END OF STORY!
07-09-2007, 09:24 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by Timbuctoo Quote
I think that brand loyalism is a bit silly! I just like to see nicely compossed, sharp images with great colour and I believe the Pentax system delivers those important aspects along with every other brand that has a decent photographer looking through the viewfinder. Think about it, nearly all brands accept a few namely Canon share sensors so we all have the same hobbies it's just that some drive Holdens and some drive Fords. The rivalry will always be there but that doesn't mean crap about which brand is better. One last thing, if you rely on AF solely then you're really missing out on what makes the Pentax system great. Rather than post comparisons between one brand and the other have a look at the photos "they say a thousand words" about the photographer not the brand!! END OF STORY!
i agree, Pentax REALLY needs to offer a split screen. for its DSLRs way ezer to use at night that whats in there now lol at night the AF works better than my eye can
07-09-2007, 10:53 PM   #60
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I do a lot of storm photography and that often involves photos in the pitch black. I can't rely on AF at all. Have you ever tried finding infinity with an AF lens in the dark, lol. The Pentax A lenses offer an excellent advantage here because all you do is turn the focus ring left until it stops and that's infinity or very close to it. With AF lenses it's not the case, you will nearly always go past infinty. So if you really want to get fussy Pentax actually has a low light advantage.
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