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03-05-2010, 12:48 PM   #1
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Want a K-7, but...

Hi guys,

I'm at an impasse... I'm looking for my first dSLR and the K-7 is high on the list. It's major competitor (in my mind) is the d300s. The K-7 kit is around $1100. I found a "B&H kit" on the B&H site that bundles the d300s with a 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 lens for $2100.

Here's my thinking on why they're vying for first place:

1. I really want a metal body, not plastic, and also a weather-sealed body. I do like the smaller body of the K-7, but that's not a huge deal.
2. The Nikon has much better AF as well as faster focusing lenses. (I know the slow autofocus can slow the burst speed of the K-7 down to under 2fps when tracking a moving object.) Also, the Nikon has slightly better (maybe 1 stop better) high-ISO performance. I don't think just these two things alone make the Nikon worth its extra cost, but...
3. I keep reading about SDM failures on Pentax lenses. This is what is really pushing me towards the Nikon. As I expand my lens collection I'd like to get high-quality glass, and the Pentax SDM motors are really turning me away from the K-7.

So... would I really be setting myself up for disappointment (re: SDM lenses) if I went with the K-7? Or is the SDM failure thing being blown out of proportion? Has anyone else struggled with this same question but got the K-7 anyway?

Am I overlooking anything?

Thanks,
Greg

03-05-2010, 01:23 PM   #2
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Just buy the Nikon. Pentax obviously sucks.
The K7 cannot autofocus on a Moving object
The SDM lenses are GOING to fail
Getting caught out in the rain with a non WR body isn't a big deal, neither is the brickhouse chassis.
The SR in the camera never works, it's better to pay the extra money for the in lens SR.

I'm sure I missed a few so I'm sure if you go to a Nikon forum, you'll get the same advice.

So there you go.. 100% vote for the Nikon.

03-05-2010, 01:30 PM   #3
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The 7D isn't too far in price from the D300s either is it? Would definitely go for that instead... Plus Canon has really great AF C, don't know about Nikon but it could be the same or not too far behind...

However since I have the K-7, I would definitely say the K-7 instead since I love it so far. If you're scared of SDM failing, then you shouldn't get Pentax unless you are going for the DA and FA Limited, one of the big reasons why a lot of people stick to Pentax.
03-05-2010, 01:39 PM   #4
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As an owner od both those cams, here are my two cents worth.

QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
Hi guys,

I'm at an impasse... I'm looking for my first dSLR and the K-7 is high on the list. It's major competitor (in my mind) is the d300s. The K-7 kit is around $1100. I found a "B&H kit" on the B&H site that bundles the d300s with a 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 lens for $2100.
I am sure you can do better than this.

Here's my thinking on why they're vying for first place:

QuoteQuote:
1. I really want a metal body, not plastic, and also a weather-sealed body. I do like the smaller body of the K-7, but that's not a huge deal.
The build on both bodies is about the same. No winner there.


QuoteQuote:
2. The Nikon has much better AF as well as faster focusing lenses.
In AF.C The D300S is very fast, much faster than the K-7. In AF.S. They are about the same. As far as lenses go, I agree...
QuoteQuote:
(I know the slow autofocus can slow the burst speed of the K-7 down to under 2fps when tracking a moving object.)
This is not true. I have never seen this to be the case with the K-7


QuoteQuote:
Also, the Nikon has slightly better (maybe 1 stop better) high-ISO performance.
Yes, I would agree


QuoteQuote:
I don't think just these two things alone make the Nikon worth its extra cost, but...
It did to me.


QuoteQuote:
3. I keep reading about SDM failures on Pentax lenses. This is what is really pushing me towards the Nikon. As I expand my lens collection I'd like to get high-quality glass, and the Pentax SDM motors are really turning me away from the K-7.
I had almost all the SDM lenses before selling most of them, but I never had a single problem.
QuoteQuote:
So... would I really be setting myself up for disappointment (re: SDM lenses) if I went with the K-7?
All systems have there fair share of problems.
QuoteQuote:
Or is the SDM failure thing being blown out of proportion?
I do not know.

QuoteQuote:
Has anyone else struggled with this same question but got the K-7 anyway?

Am I overlooking anything?

Thanks,
Greg
Good luck

03-05-2010, 01:45 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffJS Quote
The SDM lenses are GOING to fail
You would think so after reading this forum.

I am just waiting for my four to fail.
03-05-2010, 01:55 PM   #6
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JeffJS - I assume you're being facetious. I know the Pentax doesn't suck, that's why I'm looking at it. It is true, however, that it has its bad points along with its good points (in-body SR, great selection of primes (old+new), great user-interface). I see by your sig that you have a number of SDM lenses that have not failed - I'm trying to figure out if you're the rule or the exception. Neither the K-7 or d300s are exactly "cheap", so I'm just trying to gather as much info and opinions as possible.

LeDave - I looked at the 7D as well, it's very close to the d300s. I guess I'm not exactly scared of SDM failing, but rather wanting to know if I should be scared of it failing. I know what you mean about the DA and FA limiteds - they are very tempting, and pull me towards the K-7.

jgredline - Thanks for the comparo. It's good to know my thoughts weren't way off. Do you still have the K-7? Do you just use primes now? It's interesting to hear your DID think the price diff was worth it. (Is the K-7 what you use for your street photos?)

MikeP - Yes, exactly! I wonder how many people with SDM lenses just never post on this forum since they're out shooting without any problems...

Greg
03-05-2010, 02:02 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
This is not true. I have never seen this to be the case with the K-7
In this review (translated from Japanese) the reviewer tests out AF.C and gets only 2fps while tracking a train coming towards him. (Down near the bottom of the review.)

Comparison between K-7, 7D and d300s

I suppose he could have been doing something wrong? Or maybe it was an issue with earlier firmware?

Greg

03-05-2010, 02:12 PM   #8
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I almost moved to the D300S, but now I have a K-7 on the way.

Pentax-wise I currently have K10D and use mostly Sigma lenses. Buying into it more now with Pentax lenses and the K-7. I've used a lot of good Nikon gear as well, D2Xs, 300mm f/2.8, 70-200 f/2.8, 12-24 f/4... I have to say I find it really good. Optically pretty good too - that 300mm is sublime. However, the grass isn't always greener - had a lot of gear failures too (although, granted, with slightly older gear that gets a lot of work).

These points might not matter with regards to what you are looking for, but it's why I stuck with Pentax:

I shoot a range of things, but mostly street photography. In my opinion, the K-7 is probably the best street photography DSLR available.

I don't think the K-7 is behind in high ISO if you shoot RAW. It seems to have very good detail retention and low colour noise. I personally only shoot RAW for my own photography.

In my opinion build quality is pretty similar but I much prefer a smaller camera. The D300S is big.

SDM is an issue but I am looking at buying into the DA limited range where there is no Nikon similar. However top Nikon (high price) zooms are tough to beat, although they are also big.

I don't shoot much continual AF so good single AF is fine for me.

If you need fast continual AF, high frame rates or you use a lot of artificial lighting, I would say the D300S wins easily. In my opinion, these are really the only areas where Pentax isn't at least on the same level (camer-body wise anyway).

Myself, I value the small size, Pentax lens options, and built in SR. For me again, the quiet shutter is a big deal. The D300S shutter is loud.

Similarly with 7D, very, very good APS-C camera. Again, large and loud. Again, K-7 leaves you with more money for lenses.

Plus the 7D viewfinder choices look really annoying - either super cluttered or nothing there.

One other thing I'd say is: I think it's a waste to pay so much for a really great camera body (K-7, D300S, 7D - all great), and then stick a poor lens on it. In my opinion if you can't afford a nice camera body and nice lenses you'd be better off getting a K20D, D300, D90 etc and spending your saving on glass.

Last edited by CWyatt; 03-05-2010 at 02:22 PM.
03-05-2010, 02:20 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
So... would I really be setting myself up for disappointment (re: SDM lenses) if I went with the K-7? Or is the SDM failure thing being blown out of proportion? Has anyone else struggled with this same question but got the K-7 anyway?
Would help a lot if you stated what your primary subject matter is? E.g., if you're going to do sports, the D300s would be obviously better along w/ the selection of long lenses (that cost $3-6K each)...
And I assume you don't have any other lenses or cameras now to make it worth staying within the same system?
03-05-2010, 02:37 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
JeffJS - I assume you're being facetious. I know the Pentax doesn't suck, that's why I'm looking at it. It is true, however, that it has its bad points along with its good points (in-body SR, great selection of primes (old+new), great user-interface). I see by your sig that you have a number of SDM lenses that have not failed - I'm trying to figure out if you're the rule or the exception. Neither the K-7 or d300s are exactly "cheap", so I'm just trying to gather as much info and opinions as possible.
Greg

I'm glad you got it.. People don't always take the assumption that I'm being facetious. Fact is, I don't think any camera is perfect, I don't think any camera will ever be perfect. Not in the sense of pleasing everybody. I'm not interested in taking pictures of fast moving trains so contuous sustained shooting speed isn't important to me. I don't machine gun the camera. Instead I rely on Catch In Focus for moving objects, creatures, or a pacing type photo. I'm still trying to catch a bird in flight but that's photographer skill rather than the camera.

No, I've not experienced any SDM failures. I DO think I'm more the rule than exception. I bought the first one nearly 3 1/2 years ago and it works as well today as the day I took it out of the box. It works regardless of how long it's sat in the case and regardless of how much I use it in a given day (both related to theories of failure). I always make sure the camera is turned off before removing them. A factor that I Do believe is related to Some of the failures. The only time I've ever noticed any Slow AF with them is in a situation that would slow down Any AF. Otherwise before I even know the lens is focusing, it's locked on, and accurate. Stunning results from all of them. Doesn't make my photos stunning but that's matter for another discussion.

We are two different people with different requirements out of the camera outfits. You've obviously done the feature research so if you've come to believe the Nikon is going to serve your needs better, then, Buy the Nikon. That part, I wasn't being facetious about. Pentax more than serves mine.

03-05-2010, 03:00 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
In this review (translated from Japanese) the reviewer tests out AF.C and gets only 2fps while tracking a train coming towards him. (Down near the bottom of the review.)

Comparison between K-7, 7D and d300s

I suppose he could have been doing something wrong? Or maybe it was an issue with earlier firmware?

Greg
I would have to question this for one reason.
AF-C does not have the focus linked with the shutter, that is AF-S. therefore in AF-C the shutter should fire as fast as it can, allowed of course by other things like exposure time, and turning off all the features like auto lens correction, auto iso, auto wb etc, all of which consume time.

I have not deliberately gone out to check, but on my K7 I have the shutter set to continuos mode and find if I am not extremely light on the shutter button or hold it just a fraction too long, it goes and takes 2-3 shots before I even realize it. to me, I think it can probably do more than 5 fps.

As for SDM failures, I can't comment, I don't have any. I have 7 screw drive AF lenses, ranging back to FA lenses bought with my PZ-1 in 1991 to newer FA-J lenses that came with the *istD to several sigma APO-EX zooms and Tamron zooms.

The only failure I have ever had on a lens is my Tamron XR Di 28-75F2.8 which has been away for repair for about 3 months now.

Last edited by Lowell Goudge; 03-05-2010 at 03:06 PM.
03-05-2010, 03:12 PM   #12
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Do you have a specific need for a DSLR? Kids, sports, wildlife, landscape? That should influence your decision.

I've had a lot of cameras - mainly Olympus and Pentax, but also Nikon. I like all three for different reasons. If I was a rich man, I'd have all three. None the less, I decided Pentax has more of what I want. Not ideal for everything, but more than good enough for my needs (which includes paid work as well as pleasure). The K-7 excited me. It's like my beloved Olympus E-1. I don't care what anyone says, the K-7 is remarkable camera. I have a feeling that it may have a cult following after it's 'prime' much like the E-1.

If I wanted to shoot sports (for money), I'd go with Nikon or Canon. Otherwise, Pentax (and the K-7) has a lot to offer. I don't own any SDM lenses, but the AF with the screwdrive lenses is generally quick and reliable. Tracking is a let down, but that may be one of the very few negatives with the K-7.

It's a personal choice, but the most important aspect may be your intended use.


QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
Hi guys,

I'm at an impasse... I'm looking for my first dSLR and the K-7 is high on the list. It's major competitor (in my mind) is the d300s. The K-7 kit is around $1100. I found a "B&H kit" on the B&H site that bundles the d300s with a 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 lens for $2100.

Here's my thinking on why they're vying for first place:

1. I really want a metal body, not plastic, and also a weather-sealed body. I do like the smaller body of the K-7, but that's not a huge deal.
2. The Nikon has much better AF as well as faster focusing lenses. (I know the slow autofocus can slow the burst speed of the K-7 down to under 2fps when tracking a moving object.) Also, the Nikon has slightly better (maybe 1 stop better) high-ISO performance. I don't think just these two things alone make the Nikon worth its extra cost, but...
3. I keep reading about SDM failures on Pentax lenses. This is what is really pushing me towards the Nikon. As I expand my lens collection I'd like to get high-quality glass, and the Pentax SDM motors are really turning me away from the K-7.

So... would I really be setting myself up for disappointment (re: SDM lenses) if I went with the K-7? Or is the SDM failure thing being blown out of proportion? Has anyone else struggled with this same question but got the K-7 anyway?

Am I overlooking anything?

Thanks,
Greg
03-05-2010, 03:26 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by GregX999 Quote
Hi guys,
Am I overlooking anything?

Thanks,
Greg
actually yes.

go out and try one, play with menus etc, and see how it feels.

don't go nuts over the specifications because at the end of the day, it is the photographer that takes images not the camera.

Are there short comings, probably, but there are with all cameras, and the bottom line is that pentax generally has offered more features for less money. I will agree at the high end, specifically with lenses, there are gaps in the pentax range that will probably never be filled. these specifically apply to sports, and long and very fast tele's. BUT, sensor technology is rapidly improving, and while not where it needs to be yet, it may be soon possible to use much slower and less expensive lenses by boosting ISO, as opposed to having a backbreaker of a lens.

at the end of the day regardless of what brand you buy, it will take excellent photos, assuming you use it correctly and also take poor photos if you don't.

The other thing to remember is that being a smaller company, pentax has had to bend over backwards with respect to compatability of lenses. canon has abandoned its older lenses not once but twice, and unless you buy a really high end nikon, you can't even meter with older lenses. It may not matter much to you now but there are a lot of forum members who have gotten a lot of pleasure tripping over an old $30 lens that performs exceptionally on their pentax body. Sure it is MF but while AF is convenient, it does not always do what is needed, and in many cases a person can focus fster than the camera.
03-05-2010, 03:29 PM   #14
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1. What do you have now?
2. What do you primarily shoot?
03-05-2010, 05:36 PM   #15
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. Too many to answer individually, but...

I have a P&S now. I've used a friends Rebel XT (or maybe XTi, can't remember now) a few years ago, and I still have an old Minolta 35mm SLR that I used to use many years ago. No, I have no Nikon or Pentax lenses. Oh yeah, and the camera on my iPhone.

I mostly shoot travel photos (indoor and outdoor portraits - of people and of "things" such as statues, food, street scenes, etc. as well as some landscapes), nature, and fine-art style photos, but I've also tried some sports (Rugby) shooting (yeah, with the P&S - needless to say that didn't quite work out), and some "action" photos involving mountain bikes and motorcycles. I guess I'm kind of all over the place. I'd like to do more outdoor stuff, including some action-type stuff. I'm leaning towards the magnesium bodies for duribility outdoors, and the K-7 does apeal due to its size. I think if I didn't want the WR body, I'd also be looking at the D90.

One thing that sucks, there are no stores anywhere around me that carry Pentax. So I have to rely solely on the intertube. I have played with the Canons and Nikons though (in the store).

Now for the intangable...
I too get the idea that the K-7 (and Pentax cameras in general) kind of have a "cult" thing going on - not David Koresh cult, more like Rockey Horror Picture Show cult. I like it - you can really "feel" a difference between this forum and the major Canon and Nikon forums. I guess that's something else in favor of the K-7 that isn't in any review. From the "vibes" I get, I think I'd feel more "creative" with a Pentax, as opposed to more "serious" with a Canon or Nikon. Or maybe there's just something in the water here.
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