K-7 Doesn't Recognize the 18-55mm WR Kit Lens

sterretje · 03-09-2010, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by FlashCube

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Did you not see where I said the photo browser Pentax supplies with their bodies can often name the Pentax lens used?

Yes, I saw that and my reply was "I don't think OP has the camera yet".

Originally posted by FlashCube

Furthermore, this is what the OP said:
"K-7 Doesn't Recognize the 18-55 WR Kit Lens"
If he opens up an image with the PhotoBrowser that comes with the K-7, I'd bet it will name the lens at least as a Pentax 18-55mm II.

I would not bet on it. My reply to the statement was "And as I stated in my other post, no guarantee that it recognizes the lens as the lens might be newer than the software". I agree that it's very likely (as a K7/18-55WR/software has always been intended to be a kit and therefore it is probably tested for that), but I also gave a reason why it might not be the case (post #11).

In my opinion you started mixing things / confusing the matter in post #9 and that was the reason for my reply to you on that post. Below some quotes from that post and replies to the specific statements.

Quote:

Why would the software be newer than the lens given there is an update on the firmware available for the K-7.

I never stated that the software would be newer than the lens; I stated that the lens could be newer than the software. In which case the software might not 'recognize' the lens (I posted my experience with this in post #4). Further in one sentence you use the words software and firmware update and there is (usually) no relation between the two unless there is a change in communication protocol.

Quote:

Plus, older bodies like the K20d recognize the 18-55mm WR.

You confirm here OP's misunderstanding/misconception that bodies recognize lenses; this implies that you also don't understand how it works.

Quote:

On the other hand, if the OP doesn't have the K-7 yet, how does he know it won't recognize the lens?

As explained, he used another tool; you could have figured that out by reading OP's opening post.

WimS

Marc Sabatella · 03-09-2010, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by FlashCube

If he opens up an image with the PhotoBrowser that comes with the K-7, I'd bet it will name the lens at least as a Pentax 18-55mm II.

Why would you assume the software that ships with the K-7 would be too old to recognize a WR lens that was released at around the same time as the K-7 itself? That's illogical. Only older versions of the software would be expected not to recognize the lens.

sterretje · 03-09-2010, 10:50 PM

Marc, I'm the one that stated that there is no guarantee. I totally agree that it's not very likely as the K7/18-55mm WR/software are intended to be a combination and should have been tested as such but it's very easy to make a mistake in the lens ID in the software.

A simple example how these things can go wrong:
Pentax could have told the software developers that the lens ID is 33 (just an example) and the software developers could have (wrongly) assumed that it was 33 hexadecimal because Pentax always specified them as hexadecimal. However this time it was indeed specified as decimal.

During testing this might be overlooked and only be picked up after software is burned to 100000 CDs. Do you throw those away (costs), fix the issue and go through a full test cycle again (possible delay a few weeks) or go through a limited test cycle and run the risk that the correction affected all lenses? Or do you ship the camera with the faulty software (it's an annoyance but not life threatening), have the time to fix and test it and publish an update?

PS
I have seen specs where summaries (or tables) and actual descriptions don't match (example tailored to a lens ID). It says at one point (a table with specs) that the lens will identify itself by lens ID 33 and at another point (the real full description) by 33 hexadecimal; bad specification, indeed. So what does the software developer do? Call the writer of the specification (and endager the timelines of the project) or implement one of the two (the one he/she assumes is correct). If it's an outsourced software project, it will be the latter (unless one is lucky and has an understanding developer). Because the developer can earn extra money if it needs to be fixed.

I have also seen mistakes in 'translations' from user requirement specification (33 hexadecimal) to software design specification where the 'hexadecimal' fell away, the latter signed of by the user because the user overlooked it and therefore the product not doing what it's supposed to do.

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03-09-2010, 09:50 PM	#16
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Originally posted by FlashCube Perhaps I wasn't clear. Did you not see where I said the photo browser Pentax supplies with their bodies can often name the Pentax lens used? Yes, I saw that and my reply was "I don't think OP has the camera yet". Originally posted by FlashCube Furthermore, this is what the OP said: "K-7 Doesn't Recognize the 18-55 WR Kit Lens" If he opens up an image with the PhotoBrowser that comes with the K-7, I'd bet it will name the lens at least as a Pentax 18-55mm II. I would not bet on it. My reply to the statement was "And as I stated in my other post, no guarantee that it recognizes the lens as the lens might be newer than the software". I agree that it's very likely (as a K7/18-55WR/software has always been intended to be a kit and therefore it is probably tested for that), but I also gave a reason why it might not be the case (post #11). In my opinion you started mixing things / confusing the matter in post #9 and that was the reason for my reply to you on that post. Below some quotes from that post and replies to the specific statements. Quote: Why would the software be newer than the lens given there is an update on the firmware available for the K-7. I never stated that the software would be newer than the lens; I stated that the lens could be newer than the software. In which case the software might not 'recognize' the lens (I posted my experience with this in post #4). Further in one sentence you use the words software and firmware update and there is (usually) no relation between the two unless there is a change in communication protocol. Quote: Plus, older bodies like the K20d recognize the 18-55mm WR. You confirm here OP's misunderstanding/misconception that bodies recognize lenses; this implies that you also don't understand how it works. Quote: On the other hand, if the OP doesn't have the K-7 yet, how does he know it won't recognize the lens? As explained, he used another tool; you could have figured that out by reading OP's opening post. WimS

03-09-2010, 09:56 PM	#17
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by FlashCube If he opens up an image with the PhotoBrowser that comes with the K-7, I'd bet it will name the lens at least as a Pentax 18-55mm II. Why would you assume the software that ships with the K-7 would be too old to recognize a WR lens that was released at around the same time as the K-7 itself? That's illogical. Only older versions of the software would be expected not to recognize the lens.

03-09-2010, 10:50 PM	#18
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	Marc, I'm the one that stated that there is no guarantee. I totally agree that it's not very likely as the K7/18-55mm WR/software are intended to be a combination and should have been tested as such but it's very easy to make a mistake in the lens ID in the software. A simple example how these things can go wrong: Pentax could have told the software developers that the lens ID is 33 (just an example) and the software developers could have (wrongly) assumed that it was 33 hexadecimal because Pentax always specified them as hexadecimal. However this time it was indeed specified as decimal. During testing this might be overlooked and only be picked up after software is burned to 100000 CDs. Do you throw those away (costs), fix the issue and go through a full test cycle again (possible delay a few weeks) or go through a limited test cycle and run the risk that the correction affected all lenses? Or do you ship the camera with the faulty software (it's an annoyance but not life threatening), have the time to fix and test it and publish an update? PS I have seen specs where summaries (or tables) and actual descriptions don't match (example tailored to a lens ID). It says at one point (a table with specs) that the lens will identify itself by lens ID 33 and at another point (the real full description) by 33 hexadecimal; bad specification, indeed. So what does the software developer do? Call the writer of the specification (and endager the timelines of the project) or implement one of the two (the one he/she assumes is correct). If it's an outsourced software project, it will be the latter (unless one is lucky and has an understanding developer). Because the developer can earn extra money if it needs to be fixed. I have also seen mistakes in 'translations' from user requirement specification (33 hexadecimal) to software design specification where the 'hexadecimal' fell away, the latter signed of by the user because the user overlooked it and therefore the product not doing what it's supposed to do.