Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-20-2010, 06:20 PM   #16
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
QuoteOriginally posted by ralphp Quote
This satisfied me that the camera was as per the pentax spec and so I decided to keep the camera.

I am running the latest firmware.

As mentioned by others, I also have a second set of 2300mah batteries. The plan is to be able to have some power while the first set is charging.

In addition I have kept the lithium batteries which came with the camera (which didn't last long before the indicator turned orange) as an ultimate backup.

This may sound complicated, but Li-ion batteries do get used up and eventually they die also. So if one bought a second Li-ion battery so as to have the same level of redundancy as I have, the cost would have been much higher.
Your input is interesting.

The majority of people who are satisfied with their usage of the K-x usually use LSD (Low Self-Discharge) batteries - the most famous and probably the best in class are eneloops.

Wikipedia (linked above) says:

" Besides, in many devices, run-times for LSD NiMH batteries are as good or better than normal cells that have higher rated capacity, because of slightly higher operating voltage not tripping under-voltage shut off circuits in devices like digital cameras."


The higher operating voltage under-load of the LSD batteries is a BIG advantage for Pentax dSLR cameras - since the both the meter and shutdown threshold is by voltage level.

This also means that Pentax dSLR manage to use most of the charge capacity of LSD batteries - whereas on regular NiMH sometimes when the Pentax dSLR shows empty or even shuts down there may be quite a lot of charge remaining - this is because that battery cannot maintain the required voltage level under use that the LSD's can.

There used to be a very useful Sticky thread on top of this forum section - which was moved and is now in Pentax Camera and Field Accessories
- it is well worth reading that thread -

Sticky: Battery for K-x (and other cameras that take AA's)

Lastly a small point in terminology - but it is important -
Li-Ion or Lithium Ion batteries are rechargeable batteries
and are about 3.7V nominal voltage -
what you were talking about are the primary lithium AA batteries as supplied (Energizers) these are lithium, but not Li-Ion.


Last edited by UnknownVT; 06-20-2010 at 06:40 PM.
06-21-2010, 06:25 AM   #17
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond Hill, ontario
Posts: 6
Sorry if I caused confusion. Let me explain further.

My consideration/concern was this power situation with the k-x. Use of disposable lithium batteries at about $8.00 for 4 (in Canada) was a non starter. The consideration was do I by a K-x and use rechargeable NI-MH or do I buy a Nikon D5000 or a Sony Alpha 500 which use rechargeable Li-Io?

These cameras are very close in performance and this power issue could have tilted me one way or the other. I had/have a preferance for the picture quality of the K-x, but this power thing could have tilted me the other way.

So what I was saying in my other post was that if I were to set myself up to have the same redundancy with a Li-Io system, it would have meant having to buy a second Li-io battery for the Nikon or Sony at a minimum of $50.

In a few years time when these batteries would require replacement I would have to spend about $100 to replace them.

By going to the K-x I bought a battery charger combination for $30. A second set of batteries (energizer 2300mha) cost me $14. For a total expenditure of about $44. In a few years time, when my Ni-MH will need to be replaced I will be spending about $28. This is a lot better then having to spend $100 to replace Li-Io batteries in the Nikon/Sony scenario.

I'm not familiar with eneloops. The question I would be asking is are they cost effective, especially in the long run.

As I mentioned above the 2300mha energizer recharged in about half the time specified for a fully discharged battery. This means that they were only half discharged. However I see this as an advantage not a disadvantage! Why?

Because;
1- I got my 500+ shots out of them which means that it is practical to use them, as I would not normally take more then 500 shots in a day. And if I did I would still have my second set.

2 - With batteries being only half discharged on each use, they will last longer then if they were fully discharged on each use. You can re-charge them many more times, at half discharge use.

3- There is a reduced possibility of causing reverse polarity damage to the batteries.

4- The batteries recharge more quickly. You are ready to go with fully charged batteries in half the time it would take for fully discharged ones.


In the end it all comes down to cost and conveniance. I don't know what these eneloops cost but if they can be cost effective versus higher capacity energizer (or duracell etc.) then great!

ralph
06-21-2010, 06:29 AM   #18
Ira
Inactive Account




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Coral Springs, FL
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,216
QuoteOriginally posted by ralphp Quote
Sorry if I caused confusion. Let me explain further.

My consideration/concern was this power situation with the k-x. Use of disposable lithium batteries at about $8.00 for 4 (in Canada) was a non starter. The consideration was do I by a K-x and use rechargeable NI-MH or do I buy a Nikon D5000 or a Sony Alpha 500 which use rechargeable Li-Io?

These cameras are very close in performance and this power issue could have tilted me one way or the other. I had/have a preferance for the picture quality of the K-x, but this power thing could have tilted me the other way.

So what I was saying in my other post was that if I were to set myself up to have the same redundancy with a Li-Io system, it would have meant having to buy a second Li-io battery for the Nikon or Sony at a minimum of $50.

In a few years time when these batteries would require replacement I would have to spend about $100 to replace them.

By going to the K-x I bought a battery charger combination for $30. A second set of batteries (energizer 2300mha) cost me $14. For a total expenditure of about $44. In a few years time, when my Ni-MH will need to be replaced I will be spending about $28. This is a lot better then having to spend $100 to replace Li-Io batteries in the Nikon/Sony scenario.

I'm not familiar with eneloops. The question I would be asking is are they cost effective, especially in the long run.

As I mentioned above the 2300mha energizer recharged in about half the time specified for a fully discharged battery. This means that they were only half discharged. However I see this as an advantage not a disadvantage! Why?

Because;
1- I got my 500+ shots out of them which means that it is practical to use them, as I would not normally take more then 500 shots in a day. And if I did I would still have my second set.

2 - With batteries being only half discharged on each use, they will last longer then if they were fully discharged on each use. You can re-charge them many more times, at half discharge use.

3- There is a reduced possibility of causing reverse polarity damage to the batteries.

4- The batteries recharge more quickly. You are ready to go with fully charged batteries in half the time it would take for fully discharged ones.


In the end it all comes down to cost and conveniance. I don't know what these eneloops cost but if they can be cost effective versus higher capacity energizer (or duracell etc.) then great!

ralph
You can only take the math so far.

Stop using your flash and you'll save money too.
06-21-2010, 09:53 AM   #19
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
QuoteOriginally posted by ralphp Quote
Let me explain further.
Thank you for your explanation it does make sense - and like they say if it ain't broke......

However for for your edification
(not suggesting you change anything if it's working for you)
LSD and specifically eneloops are the overwhelming recommendation here (one can see that in the thread Sticky: Battery for K-x (and other cameras that take AA's) and many other threads on batteries) when it comes to AA batteries for any Pentax dSLR for the following reasons:

1) Low or slow self-discharge - they keep good charge - hence their name, for up to about a year - one of the common complaints in using NiMH is often the user returns to the camera to find the batteries flat or very low - this is due to the relatively high rate of self-discharge - this is a characteristic of NiMH and no brand is immune - whereas LSD are as the name says Low Self-discharge. So if your set in the camera has self-discharged - the likeihood that your stored spare charged set has also done that is also quite high (unless just recently charged)

2) Higher operating voltage under load - this is very important for Pentax dSLRs which use voltage threshold for the meter and camera shutdown - and it's the reason why many complain about other NiMH batteries that seem fine in other devices including digital cameras - but either show low battery prematurely, or won't even power on the Pentax dSLR.

3) Less prone to damage - because of their design for low self-discharge the LSD batteries from reputable makers seem to be intrinsically better made with more robust materials. Whereas the same cannot be said for higher capacity NiMH (mostly >= 2500 mAh) where to squeeze the extra capacity they had to use thinner material - which in turn become more prone to damage - there are plenty of reports of high capacity NiMH that have developed severe cases of high self discharge - some as quickly as just a few days.

Please check out Post #57 in Kx in Use - where I summarize my battery usage so far in the K-x -
my last shot count using eneloops was 1,578! - my all time high (post #59 toward the bottom of the post - in Kx in Use )

I am not suggesting you change anything - especially if things are working well for you.

But the next time you are considering buying a set of AA rechargeable batteries you might want to consider LSDs - especially eneloops or known re-badges.

There is a good reason for eneloops being the overwhelming recommendation on this forum for Pentax dSLRs using AA batteries - I would suggest there are just a few people who are more than just a little experienced with Pentax.....


Last edited by UnknownVT; 06-21-2010 at 10:09 AM.
06-21-2010, 11:16 AM   #20
Site Supporter
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,775
QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
Please check out Post #57 in Kx in Use - where I summarize my battery usage so far in the K-x -
my last shot count using eneloops was 1,578! - my all time high (post #59 toward the bottom of the post - in Kx in Use )....
Another seldom user of flash. I have also gotten more than 1,200 clicks from a set of Eneloops and 3,400 from disposable lithiums.
06-21-2010, 02:23 PM   #21
Site Supporter
Ex Finn.'s Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Southern Maryland.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 6,278
QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Another seldom user of flash. I have also gotten more than 1,200 clicks from a set of Eneloops and 3,400 from disposable lithiums.
You guys are animals.
06-21-2010, 02:25 PM   #22
Site Supporter
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,775
QuoteOriginally posted by Ex Finn. Quote
You guys are animals.
That, too, but I think the big factor is that I don't use flash, live view or video very much.
06-23-2010, 06:29 AM   #23
New Member




Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Richmond Hill, ontario
Posts: 6
Just did a quick check on eneloop pricing. One can get 4AA for about $13 US on Amazon! The math would work even better for these then the energizers!

Will definitely try them.

Some of you guys are getting 1000's of shots on one charge - that is awsome!

Seems that the battery issue is a non issue.

06-23-2010, 09:29 AM   #24
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,812
QuoteOriginally posted by ralphp Quote
Just did a quick check on eneloop pricing. One can get 4AA for about $13 US on Amazon! The math would work even better for these then the energizers!

Will definitely try them.

Some of you guys are getting 1000's of shots on one charge - that is awsome!

Seems that the battery issue is a non issue.
Yes, but there is a caveat - both GeneV and I use very little flash, no movies/videos, and no Live-View - all these are battery drainers - so as they say YMMV depending very much on usage.

However in terms of any current rechargeable battery for Pentax dSLRs -
the eneloop is the overwhelming recommendation, and best of breed.

The shot count of more than 3,400 from disposable lithiums by GeneV is incredible......

Might want to check out Adorama - eneloop AA 4pk $10.95 (currently with FREE shipping)

Last edited by UnknownVT; 06-23-2010 at 09:37 AM.
06-23-2010, 03:14 PM   #25
Pentaxian
bobmaxja's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Laval, Quebec Canada
Posts: 1,734
I just return from a trip and follow advice . Bought the Eneeloop brand under President choice name. Took 600+ photo with one set. Work like a charm
06-23-2010, 05:50 PM   #26
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Fredericton New Brunswick Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 332
QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
I just return from a trip and follow advice . Bought the Eneeloop brand under President choice name. Took 600+ photo with one set. Work like a charm
Me too. For those in Canada, Eneloops are marketed in Loblaws grocery stores (such as Atlantic Superstore) under the "President's Choice" brand. You can get a set of four with charger for a reasonable price.

With Eneloops or disposable Lithiums, you can't go wrong.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
batteries, battery, camera, cells, charge, dslr, half, meter, photography, shots
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
K200D Battery Meter Problem Zerreth Pentax DSLR Discussion 34 10-25-2009 10:06 AM
frustrating shutter problems with MX, ME Super h734790 Pentax Film SLR Discussion 5 08-02-2009 10:30 AM
For Sale - Sold: Gossen Luna Pro CdS light meter with battery adapter pingflood Sold Items 2 03-28-2009 04:39 PM
Ist D L new lithum battery = no power on meter oilfield trash Photographic Technique 4 11-08-2008 09:21 AM
K10D and Battery meter fishy Pentax DSLR Discussion 2 07-20-2008 06:31 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:03 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top