Pentax K7 AF.C bird pics...

K7er · 03-23-2010, 12:29 PM

I attempted to capture some bird shots with very limited equipment, [a Pentax K7

and a ] DAL 50-200 lens. I shot on AF.C centre-tracking -- the limiting factor for me was the reach of the lens.

Note that these birds were really *flying*. I had to keep the camera pointed at them to track and keep them on focus. Still a tad out of focus on the shots. What do you guys think?

Attached Images

danielchtong · 03-23-2010, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by K7er

I attempted to capture some bird shots with very limited equipment, [a Pentax K7

and a ] DAL 50-200 lens. I shot on AF.C centre-tracking -- the limiting factor for me was the reach of the lens.

Note that these birds were really *flying*. I had to keep the camera pointed at them to track and keep them on focus. Still a tad out of focus on the shots. What do you guys think?

It may not be sharp enough because of shutter speed which should be faster than 1/1000s
Ensure you have the S R off
I did majority of my birdie shots in BIF

Some Ok birdie shots in HK - Steve's Digicams Forums

Daniel

kenyee · 03-23-2010, 01:03 PM

don't think it's a focus issue since nothing looks in focus on the entire frame :-)

Mike.P® · 03-23-2010, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by K7er

Then shall we declare AF.C not working?

These were done with AF.C on a K10D.

K7er · 03-23-2010, 01:21 PM

Very nice!

Were you very close to the subjects?
Also, were you doing burst mode shooting?

Mike.P® · 03-23-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally posted by K7er

Very nice!

Were you very close to the subjects?
Also, were you doing burst mode shooting?

First one I was fairly close, other two are cropped quite heavily.

I never shoot burst mode.

K7er · 03-23-2010, 01:31 PM

Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks!

I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images?

Last edited by K7er; 03-23-2010 at 01:50 PM.

Mike.P® · 03-23-2010, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by K7er

I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images?

If I'm honest I think lens quality has a lot to do with it .. the first one was taken with a Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 and the other two with a Pentax F* 300mm f4.5.

aleonx3 · 03-23-2010, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by K7er

Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks!

I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images?

From my limited experience, 200mm focal length is not likely to be enough for most BIF shots. I only have the DA 55-300mm which can do the job occasionally. If you are seriously about this type of photography, then you should get a faster prime or zoom in that range.

Here are a couple of shots of the white and brown boobies taken during my last Asian cruise when the ship sailed into the Keelong harbour.

snostorm · 03-23-2010, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by K7er

Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks!

I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images?

Hi K7er,

Some tips, but realize I'm not much of a BIF shooter:

If possible, shoot at f8-14 to give the camera a DOF edge.

Keep the shutter speed up also, if possible to prevent motion blur (both camera and subject).

Use higher ISO to gain the two above.

AF C with Multipoint focusing will slow the frame rate, but it should be easier to keep the subject in focus while tracking than Single point. Single point gives you closer to the 5+fps, but is harder to track accurately -- take your pick according to your skill.

If you want the fastest frame rate, make sure that you have at least a 20MB/sec continuous write card (30MB/sec is even better for longer strings), shoot jpeg, lowering quality and/or resolution to down to 6MP *** to speed processing/write times. Disable as many auto functions as you can to ease things up on the camera's processor. For example, if you can find a nice compromise of shutter speed/aperture, you can go to full manual, set to a custom WB, choose a single ISO, shut off Auto Lens Correction (the first thing you should do), and any other unneeded Auto function that I might have forgotten. This will eliminate any unnecessary processing, and will speed up both frame rate and AF performance.

Make sure that you get an reasonably good initial focus lock(it doesn't have to be perfect, but close) before starting a continuous string. If you're OOF to start with, the AF system will have trouble gaining a lock.

Practice!!!

As far as lenses go, I've heard from some very good birders that for 35mm, a sharp 400 f5.6 is about as good as it gets for BIF. With our APS C DSLRs, we get the benefit of the crop factor, so a 300mm has the FOV of a 450mm on 35mm. We get a touch more reach and more speed with a smaller 300 f4 or f4.5. Personally, I like the FA* 300/4.5, but a good Sigma or Tamron 70-300 f4-5.6 (or the Pentax FA80-320 or FA 100-300), or better yet, the DA55-300 should be all you need. I've tried BIF with my 300/2.8s to see if the extra light gathering would be a benefit, but they don't give any advantage in AF C (actually are considerably worse because of the shallow DOF -- the camera AF system works with the lens wide open), and the extra weight makes handling much more difficult.

A few examples -- and again, I'm not at all good at this:

Caspian Tern -- these guys are pretty fast

Pigeon -- one of the Usual Suspects

Ring Billed Gull -- another US

The K-7 is easily the best Pentax body for this, if for nothing else tracking ease due to the very quick VF blackout periods.

Scott

**ChipB** · 03-23-2010, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by danielchtong

It may not be sharp enough because of shutter speed which should be faster than 1/1000s
Ensure you have the S R off
I did majority of my birdie shots in BIF

Some Ok birdie shots in HK - Steve's Digicams Forums

Daniel

Daniel, why would you recommend turning off SR? The OP said nothing about using a tripod.

Thanks,

Marc Sabatella · 03-23-2010, 04:40 PM

The 50-200 is more than sharp enough to produce results that look good at the sort of resolutions seen here. It is, however, not really long enough to fill the frame with any birds that are not either very large or very close or both. Needing to crop in will rob of you resolution. And if you need to print psoter sized, then sure, a better lens helps. But in cases where you're dealing with a large or closeup bird, and you're just talking about viewing on screen or in small prints, the lens is *not* going to be what holds you back as much as failure to get a fast enough shutter speed, to hold the camera steady enough, or to achieve accurate focus. After all, if it's sharp enough when the bird *isn't* flying, it doesn't suddenly get softer then he takes off!

zackspeed · 03-23-2010, 06:41 PM

With K-7 + DA*300

zackspeed · 03-23-2010, 06:43 PM

Same Body+Lens

zackspeed · 03-23-2010, 06:45 PM

All pix are crops

03-23-2010, 12:29 PM	#1
K7er Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 58	Pentax K7 AF.C bird pics... I attempted to capture some bird shots with very limited equipment, [a Pentax K7 and a ] DAL 50-200 lens. I shot on AF.C centre-tracking -- the limiting factor for me was the reach of the lens. Note that these birds were really flying. I had to keep the camera pointed at them to track and keep them on focus. Still a tad out of focus on the shots. What do you guys think? Attached Images

03-23-2010, 02:47 PM	#9
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Originally posted by K7er Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks! I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images? From my limited experience, 200mm focal length is not likely to be enough for most BIF shots. I only have the DA 55-300mm which can do the job occasionally. If you are seriously about this type of photography, then you should get a faster prime or zoom in that range. Here are a couple of shots of the white and brown boobies taken during my last Asian cruise when the ship sailed into the Keelong harbour. Last edited by aleonx3; 09-25-2010 at 10:30 AM.

03-23-2010, 03:27 PM	#10
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by K7er Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks! I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images? Hi K7er, Some tips, but realize I'm not much of a BIF shooter: If possible, shoot at f8-14 to give the camera a DOF edge. Keep the shutter speed up also, if possible to prevent motion blur (both camera and subject). Use higher ISO to gain the two above. AF C with Multipoint focusing will slow the frame rate, but it should be easier to keep the subject in focus while tracking than Single point. Single point gives you closer to the 5+fps, but is harder to track accurately -- take your pick according to your skill. If you want the fastest frame rate, make sure that you have at least a 20MB/sec continuous write card (30MB/sec is even better for longer strings), shoot jpeg, lowering quality and/or resolution to down to 6MP *** to speed processing/write times. Disable as many auto functions as you can to ease things up on the camera's processor. For example, if you can find a nice compromise of shutter speed/aperture, you can go to full manual, set to a custom WB, choose a single ISO, shut off Auto Lens Correction (the first thing you should do), and any other unneeded Auto function that I might have forgotten. This will eliminate any unnecessary processing, and will speed up both frame rate and AF performance. Make sure that you get an reasonably good initial focus lock(it doesn't have to be perfect, but close) before starting a continuous string. If you're OOF to start with, the AF system will have trouble gaining a lock. Practice!!! As far as lenses go, I've heard from some very good birders that for 35mm, a sharp 400 f5.6 is about as good as it gets for BIF. With our APS C DSLRs, we get the benefit of the crop factor, so a 300mm has the FOV of a 450mm on 35mm. We get a touch more reach and more speed with a smaller 300 f4 or f4.5. Personally, I like the FA* 300/4.5, but a good Sigma or Tamron 70-300 f4-5.6 (or the Pentax FA80-320 or FA 100-300), or better yet, the DA55-300 should be all you need. I've tried BIF with my 300/2.8s to see if the extra light gathering would be a benefit, but they don't give any advantage in AF C (actually are considerably worse because of the shallow DOF -- the camera AF system works with the lens wide open), and the extra weight makes handling much more difficult. A few examples -- and again, I'm not at all good at this: Caspian Tern -- these guys are pretty fast Pigeon -- one of the Usual Suspects Ring Billed Gull -- another US The K-7 is easily the best Pentax body for this, if for nothing else tracking ease due to the very quick VF blackout periods. Scott Last edited by snostorm; 03-23-2010 at 04:18 PM.

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03-23-2010, 12:45 PM	#2
danielchtong Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 885	Originally posted by K7er I attempted to capture some bird shots with very limited equipment, [a Pentax K7 and a ] DAL 50-200 lens. I shot on AF.C centre-tracking -- the limiting factor for me was the reach of the lens. Note that these birds were really flying. I had to keep the camera pointed at them to track and keep them on focus. Still a tad out of focus on the shots. What do you guys think? It may not be sharp enough because of shutter speed which should be faster than 1/1000s Ensure you have the S R off I did majority of my birdie shots in BIF Some Ok birdie shots in HK - Steve's Digicams Forums Daniel

03-23-2010, 01:03 PM	#3
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	don't think it's a focus issue since nothing looks in focus on the entire frame :-)

03-23-2010, 01:13 PM	#4
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	Originally posted by K7er Then shall we declare AF.C not working? These were done with AF.C on a K10D.

03-23-2010, 01:21 PM	#5
K7er Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 58 Original Poster	Very nice! Were you very close to the subjects? Also, were you doing burst mode shooting?

03-23-2010, 01:24 PM	#6
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	Originally posted by K7er Very nice! Were you very close to the subjects? Also, were you doing burst mode shooting? First one I was fairly close, other two are cropped quite heavily. I never shoot burst mode.

03-23-2010, 01:31 PM	#7
K7er Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 58 Original Poster	Are there any tips you could offer for focus tracking the birds? Thanks! I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images? Last edited by K7er; 03-23-2010 at 01:50 PM.

03-23-2010, 02:02 PM	#8
Mike.P® Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Milton, Hampshire, UK Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,154	Originally posted by K7er I suppose the lens quality would matter in here too -- maybe, my DAL 50-200 is producing much softer images? If I'm honest I think lens quality has a lot to do with it .. the first one was taken with a Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 and the other two with a Pentax F* 300mm f4.5.

03-23-2010, 04:13 PM	#11
ChipB Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Eau Claire, WI Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,701	Originally posted by danielchtong It may not be sharp enough because of shutter speed which should be faster than 1/1000s Ensure you have the S R off I did majority of my birdie shots in BIF Some Ok birdie shots in HK - Steve's Digicams Forums Daniel Daniel, why would you recommend turning off SR? The OP said nothing about using a tripod. Thanks,

03-23-2010, 04:40 PM	#12
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	The 50-200 is more than sharp enough to produce results that look good at the sort of resolutions seen here. It is, however, not really long enough to fill the frame with any birds that are not either very large or very close or both. Needing to crop in will rob of you resolution. And if you need to print psoter sized, then sure, a better lens helps. But in cases where you're dealing with a large or closeup bird, and you're just talking about viewing on screen or in small prints, the lens is not going to be what holds you back as much as failure to get a fast enough shutter speed, to hold the camera steady enough, or to achieve accurate focus. After all, if it's sharp enough when the bird isn't flying, it doesn't suddenly get softer then he takes off!