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03-28-2010, 11:29 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I was pretty certain from looking at the image; but checked the EXIF to be sure.
I guess with someone as experienced as you -
even a slight amount of "reasonable doubt" is good enough.

Most people don't realize it's a flash shot -
some have asked about the lighting -
- thinking perhaps there were filming/studio lights there -

But if one looks at the EXIF - the shutter speed was 1/3 sec!
No, I didn't set this there were no manual settings (as we understand it) on that 2Mp p&s -
it was auto set by the camera when using Slow-Sync flash.
That is exposing for the scene (kind of as-is) and filling-in with flash -
there certainly was no flash compensation available to set -
but the Canon S100 Digital ELPH seemed to do well in balancing the flash and ambient light.
So much for the evils of on board flash, huh?

here's another:

EXIF re-attached (caveat PhotoBucket sometimes drops metadata)
most probably can guess now because of this discussion, it's a flash shot -
but I don't think it looks like a typical/obvious flash shot.

EXIF: Canon G10 compact - ISO250, f/2.8, 1/8sec and flash fired, auto mode -
but with -1 2/3 stops flash compensation/bias,
and there was -2/3 stop overall exposure compensation -
so in effect the flash was some -2 1/3 stop below the normal auto level....

QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Agreed on both counts! FWIW, although I shoot 10MP RAW, the JPEG's I routinely generate from my "keepers" are only 2MP, and that's what I use for almost everything I actually do with my pictures - posting online, sharing with friend, making small prints, etc. It's enough resolution to more than fill my screen at 100%, and enough to print 4x6" at 300dpi. It's only when I do larger prints or want to share images with someone who wants to do the same that I return to my 10MP originals.

Of course, having 10MP allows me to crop pretty heavily if I want and still end up with 2MP. I don't do this a lot, but it's nice to be able to. Still, I have to say I find it kind of ridiculous the amount of attention pixel count gets in comparing cameras. More than 2MP is great, sure, but the difference between 6, 8, 10, 12, and 14 is also something I'd say is not very relevant for most people most of the time. Unless maybe you shoot a lot of wildlife and depend on the cropability.
Ha-ha! many will probably laugh at me but I shoot my K-x (which is 12Mp) at 10Mp ....... because I don't really need 12Mp.
6Mp is probably good enough too - but hey! I chose 10Mp.


Last edited by UnknownVT; 03-28-2010 at 11:35 AM.
03-28-2010, 02:45 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by UnknownVT Quote
No, I didn't set this there were no manual settings (as we understand it) on that 2Mp p&s -
it was auto set by the camera when using Slow-Sync flash.
That is exposing for the scene (kind of as-is) and filling-in with flash -
there certainly was no flash compensation available to set -
but the Canon S100 Digital ELPH seemed to do well in balancing the flash and ambient light.
I agree - it is definitely a pretty darned good onboard flash shot, especially given the lack of manual controls.

Still, the location of the highlights/reflections on the subject's face and on the chair near his hand made it pretty clear there was strong direct light coming from right in front of him, below eye level. While those *could* could have been from a floor or table lamp, I rarely see those in bars. That plus the lack of color cast and lack of noise are what made me suspect flash. But if you had told me that no, this was a pro-level continuous lighting system run through a diffuser or umbrella or whatever, I'd have believed you.

In the followup shot, the tipoff would have been how much brighter the near hand is than the far - again, that points to a strong light source directly in front of the subject. But it is indeed nicely balanced overall, and if it weren't for the clues in the hands, I might have believed the reflection in the sign behind the guy was from something else, and the light on his face came from something to the side.

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 03-28-2010 at 04:23 PM.
03-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I agree - it is definitely a pretty darned good onboard flash shot, especially given the lack of manual controls.
In the followup shot, the tipoff would have been how much brighter the near hand is than the far - again, that points to a strong light source directly in front of the subject. But it is indeed nicely balanced overall, and if it weren't for the clues in the hands, I might have beleived the reflection in the sign behind the guy was from something else, and the light on his face came from something to the side.
Thanks Marc -
OK before people think we have strayed way Off-Topic and are attempting to Hi-Jack this thread -
the point about the flash shots is that even though one may have poorer High ISO performance - flash can go some ways to mitigate that - notice the ISO ratings of those flash assisted shots - they were ISO65 for the 2Mp Digital Elph p&s and ISO250 for the Canon G10 (shot at 9Mp) - all pretty low ISOs, and obviously on any Pentax dSLR would give close to maximum/optimum IQ (Image Quality).

Hopefully my shots show that even the evil much maligned on-board weedy flash can do a good job - provided one takes the time to study and learn to use it.......
Just setting the camera on Green Auto, and flashing away will not do it -
and quite rightly will get criticisms of typical obvious on-board flash shots.

But it can be the right tool to fill-in (and that is the operative word) and all Pentax dSLRs already have it built-in, and it is capable of getting good results that at least do not look like typical deer-caught-headlights stark flash shots.

By supplementing the lighting with flash - yet, importantly, exposing for the ambient light - can mitigate having to use High ISO altogether - that's how I have managed to get away shooting compacts and p&s with obviously horrible or even non-existent High ISO performance for years - it's because I mainly did not have to use High ISOs

This is why I smile when I get the generic advice to use an off-camera flash as if that would solve all the flash problems.

An off camera flash can still look very obviously a flash shot - because of the obvious clues of the rest of the ambient environment being much less exposed (if at all) than the subject - I hardly ever use the flash sync shutter speed.

Here are some more examples literally from last night -
all with on-board flash -
there are obviously some clues
(and I am not intentionally trying to fool anyone) -
but they do not look like obvious typical flash shots to my eyes -
but I am more than willing to be corrected -







all have EXIF reattached (caveat: PhotoBucket can drop metadata)

link to first pic of 15 pics from last night - all but one is using the on-board flash of the Canon G10
03-28-2010, 06:08 PM   #64
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K-x or K7 as you can use all the legacy lenses from 1952. Canon you are not able to as they switched mounts and I never saw an adapter for the FD/EOS.

The other thing is Pentax has inbuilt stabiliser vs Canon/Nikon which is lens-based. You pay more for lenses with IS.

03-29-2010, 10:45 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by felixkh Quote
K-x or K7 as you can use all the legacy lenses from 1952. Canon you are not able to as they switched mounts and I never saw an adapter for the FD/EOS.
But can't you use the legacy Pentax and M42 glass on the Canon Rebels?
03-29-2010, 10:56 AM   #66
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Yes, but you lose the SR feature on the legacy m42 glass when using it on Canon Rebels. That's why most don't even bother....
03-29-2010, 11:44 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
Yes, but you lose the SR feature on the legacy m42 glass when using it on Canon Rebels. That's why most don't even bother....
Most... except for all those people who DO use m42 glass on EOS adapters, as well as K-mount, OM mount, and a variety of others... right?

Honestly, given the disparity in market presence, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more people using M42 glass on EOS DSLRs cameras than there are using it on K-mount DSLRs.

Let's be sensible here. There are some advantages to Pentax cameras when using legacy glass, but that doesn't mean other brands are a no-go.
03-29-2010, 11:53 PM   #68
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Go for the Canon 100%

Just bought today the Canon EOS 50 D. Wow! Its an excellent camera. Love it. Spoke to guys who do photos in shopping centre and they use Canon and occasionally Nikon. Its convinced me to buy it. What a lovely camera 6.3 frames per second, live view 9 point af dual lens kit and 3.0" screen....Go for the Canon.

03-30-2010, 05:04 AM   #69
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Here in Aus the 550D is 75% more expensive than the K-x and the 50D is double the price, yet the K-x still compares very favourably with both. Yeah, thanks for coming!
03-30-2010, 05:16 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by khaz0r Quote
I can get the Canon 550D for under $1000 and the K-x for under $700.
BuyDig.COM (a reputable seller with full Pentax USA warranty products) has the K-x kit for $499 right now.

I was going to buy the K-7 for $899 + over $100 more in extra batteries and chargers to upgrade my K20D. But I ended up buying the K-x to complement my K20D instead, as I'll wait on the K-7's successor.

I also bought my lenses back when they were much cheaper. I'm sure the US dollar has had an impact on prices as well.

$199 FA 50 f1.4 (just before they went to $249, and now they are $$$)
$239 DA 16-45 f/4 (after $100 rebate)
$299 DA 10-17 Fisheye (after $100 rebate)
$299 DA 16-250 f/3.5-6.3 (open box)
$309 DA 55-300 f/4-5.8 (although Amazon has it for $349 right now)
$599 DA* 16-50 f/2.8 (after $100 rebate with K20D)

The only lens I paid "list price" for was the DA* 200 f/2.8 for $999 at Ace Photo. But that's because I needed it immediately (and couldn't wait for mail order).
03-30-2010, 06:29 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by khaz0r Quote
Guys I have ordered the Canon EOS 550D from a grey importer. $1370AUD with the 18-135mm IS lens + UV filter + 16GB Class 6 SDHC + extra battery. I chose this because the canon was a bit more advanced than the K-x, the 550D to me physically felt sturdier and better in the hand. I thank you all for your input. It was a tough decision but I think this will be a longer term investment than my current K200D which on second thoughts I will keep as a backup camera.
Nice price
04-01-2010, 01:38 PM   #72
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Here we finally have the direct comparison between Kx and 550D at DPReview.

Noise Comparison
04-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #73
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pentax kx. why? because i like pentax. hah
04-07-2010, 10:19 PM   #74
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Take it from me. Don't go Canon! It looks all wonderful and great when you're looking at how cool the Rebel bodies are and how sharp the L lenses are, but then it hits you. You have to pay for all of it. Then you realize that Pentax is a much better choice. I'm totally serious, Canon is way too expensive and unless you buy stabilized lenses it's a total loss of the Shake Reduction.
04-11-2010, 12:57 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by khaz0r Quote
Guys I have ordered the Canon EOS 550D from a grey importer. $1370AUD with the 18-135mm IS lens + UV filter + 16GB Class 6 SDHC + extra battery. I chose this because the canon was a bit more advanced than the K-x, the 550D to me physically felt sturdier and better in the hand. I thank you all for your input. It was a tough decision but I think this will be a longer term investment than my current K200D which on second thoughts I will keep as a backup camera.
Khaz0r,

As you were I am currently considering purchase of a digital SLR and have narrowed down to either a k-x or 550d. As you went with the 550d how is it working out? Also can you let me know where you purchased the 550d from as it looks like a good price?

Geoff
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