Borrowing K10 to complete noob - setup?

Noisychip · 03-24-2010, 12:14 PM

Hi guys,

in a couple of days I'm going to borrow my K10d with a Sigma 24-60/2.8 and a Metz 58 to a friend who wants to shoot a familiy event. I wont be there at the event.

He has never used a DSLR before (ok, he did, but just 5 minutes). I will try to explain the most important things to him, but not more than one can remember at once.

I though about the following setup/config:
Program "Av" mode, set to f 2.8 (and eventually explaing the DOF thing and the thumb dial)
AUTO ISO 100-640
Camera EV set to -0.3 or -0.6 (to avoid highlight clipping)
AF-S set to center point (and explain focussing with the central point)
Flash with a small diffusor set to P-TTL HSS to avoid overexposure outdoors
Flash EV set to -0.5 EV
Lens with hood mounted
RAW+JPG (or eventually RAW only, will do the RAW processing for him)
SR on

What else should I think of?
Do you have further tips?
Has this been tried before? Am I just insane?

**blackcloudbrew** · 03-24-2010, 01:07 PM

I seriously mean this.

Plan A, put it in totally in green mode for everything. ISO 100-800. Raw only.
Plan B, put it in P mode but change the custom menu to have it set for DOF preference.

You are insane, unless you get a disclaimer that you can't be helped if this friend screws it up.

Pauld · 03-24-2010, 02:51 PM

I have to agree with blackcloudbrew on this one. The k10d can be confusing enough to a seasoned DSLR user but a complete nubey would be an accident waiting to happen. Putting it in green mode is the safest alternative, that way he won't have to fiddle with any settings.

Better yet tell him to borrow a P+S from someone.

cps_goodbuy · 03-25-2010, 07:32 AM

EDIT: just realised you mentioned outdoors...darn

Anyhow, I'm unsure if this flash can do the below... and if it is an indoor event and not on a sunny day.

I used to do this with my old Metz 45 CL-4 and IstDS, once gave it to my brothers girlfriend sister whom was 8years old and she took some great photos, a little heavy for her but she was very careful with it! The look of worry from her parents ^^ hehe

Anyhow, what about these kind of settings. Manual ftw?

K10D:
Central autofocus and explain recomposing... (especially the halfpress etc
iso 100
aperture set to specific aperture, probably f5.6 (or f2.8 f4 f5.6 f8)
shutter to 1/180
WB to flash
Off SR
Raw+Jpeg

Flash:
Flash in its own Auto mode -does it have an onboard sensor?
corresponding iso
corresponding aperture

Maybe spend a little time fine tuning the camera for the conditions with +- Flash EV

What do you think?

Wheatfield · 03-25-2010, 08:25 AM

Put it in green mode and tell him to leave it there.

aerodave · 03-25-2010, 10:48 AM

I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal):

You borrow something from another person
You loan something to another person (or you may lend it)

jlaubza · 03-25-2010, 10:49 AM

This is a confusing camera for a starter. Concur with green mode - it works well but I would limit iso to 400 as there is a lot of noise at 800.

Also, when you pass a camera onto somebody else for temporary use and then expect it to come back, it is called lending, not borrowing. Borrowing is when you ask somebody to give you something on a temporary basis.

AVANT · 03-25-2010, 02:47 PM

I agree that the K10D is a tough jump. I'm still teaching my sister about photography on an Superzoom P&S with manual controls.

K10D requires a lot more input to get the picture right. However, if you must require a set it and forget it setting. I would recommend these changes:

> 100-400 auto iso, 400 is all you'll need outdoors, especially being paired with a f/2.8 lens, the noise jump to 640 in the off chance it needs to be used isn't worth it.
> +0.3EV or +0.7EV, while it's great you like doing post processing, the less you have to do the better. Shadow detail is more important than highlight detail imo. The K10D tends to underexpose anyways.
> -1.0FEV. You're using it as a fill flash, -0.5 is still too powerful.
> I would consider skipping the diffusor. Diffusor + HSS + outdoor = a lot of flash power. Results in shorter battery life, longer recharge, etc.
> Play with the jpg processing to bump up the settings to ATLEAST brightness (+2), contrast (+2), and sharpness (+1). Unless they are a true photo critic, I find people generally like punchy images, not detailed images. They've been brain washed by the Canon Nikon out of the box settings

Since you're doing RAW + jpg anyways, your friend will appreciate the immediate presentable pictures while you work on the RAW image for the good stuff.

omega leader · 03-25-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by aerodave

I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal):

You borrow something from another person
You loan something to another person (or you may lend it)

I was confused too. I think you NEED to spend time with him to practice, at least twice. Grab someone (spouse, anyone) have him shoot, EXPLAIN. Take 50 photos.

Then go EDIT them with him, EXPLAIN why things happened.

Then do it again.

Then wish him good luck.

I loaned by K10D to my mother (about the most technologically helpless person out there.) She however did fantastic. (didn't hurt she has been shooting with a manual everything RF for the last 40 years.) So its not impossible.

If he is clueless after the two shoots then, well I don't really know

.

cps_goodbuy · 03-25-2010, 04:08 PM

disposable?

I've lent my cameras (shortterm) to many people, family, friends, strangers on the street.. it seems that young children get more keepers in my honest (but limited) opinion. People respond better to them, children have a different viewpoint, and are less influenced in capturing a photo in the way us adults are imo.

My original idea was based on the wonderful metz that I use in onboard auto, lovely colours and exposure, with a manually set k10d.

anyhow, give him the camera in auto everything mode?

Edit: Thumbs up for your mother

sebberry · 03-25-2010, 11:53 PM

I have had my K10D for a couple of years now and I am still trying to figure out how to use it.

I wish your friend luck

epqwerty · 03-26-2010, 07:40 AM

Umm. Why wouldn't you just put the camera in full auto mode. Instead of Av mode. If he doesn't know how to use a SLR why make it complicated for him. Also the preset are good. The problem I think with av mode is that since he doesn't know much about DOF he will likely forget what corresponds to what and just shoot with what it is at and might miss something important. These moments are once in a lifetime. Nothing like having a blurry background when you really wanted the opposite.

Noisychip · 03-27-2010, 03:36 AM

Thanks to all for your replies, they are most appreciated

How about AF with auto point selection? Does this make more sense than center point?

Originally posted by aerodave

I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal):

You borrow something from another person
You loan something to another person (or you may lend it)

Thanks for clarifying that. Once again I tried to apply the grammatic structures of my language to yours ...

The stupid thing is, I seem to make most of the mistakes in thread titles, where they can't be fixed

Sorry for the confusion!

reeftool · 03-27-2010, 06:28 AM

I would say green mode also. When I first bought my K10D, I used green mode the very first time out. It was a combination of indoor and outdoor shooting at night at our Village Christmas celebration, including fireworks. All the pictures came out fairly well. Slightly underexposed but nothing I couldn't fix in Picasa. I used the pop up flash.

Noisychip · 03-28-2010, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by cps_goodbuy

EDIT: just realised you mentioned outdoors...darn

(...)

Flash:
Flash in its own Auto mode -does it have an onboard sensor?

Yes, the Metz 58-1 does have an Auto mode. But I was wondering if it will provide High Speed Sync in A Mode.

Does anybody know?

03-24-2010, 12:14 PM	#1
Noisychip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282	Borrowing K10 to complete noob - setup? Hi guys, in a couple of days I'm going to borrow my K10d with a Sigma 24-60/2.8 and a Metz 58 to a friend who wants to shoot a familiy event. I wont be there at the event. He has never used a DSLR before (ok, he did, but just 5 minutes). I will try to explain the most important things to him, but not more than one can remember at once. I though about the following setup/config: Program "Av" mode, set to f 2.8 (and eventually explaing the DOF thing and the thumb dial) AUTO ISO 100-640 Camera EV set to -0.3 or -0.6 (to avoid highlight clipping) AF-S set to center point (and explain focussing with the central point) Flash with a small diffusor set to P-TTL HSS to avoid overexposure outdoors Flash EV set to -0.5 EV Lens with hood mounted RAW+JPG (or eventually RAW only, will do the RAW processing for him) SR on What else should I think of? Do you have further tips? Has this been tried before? Am I just insane?

03-25-2010, 10:49 AM	#7
jlaubza Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: south africa, johannesburg Photos: Gallery Posts: 228	beginner using a K10 This is a confusing camera for a starter. Concur with green mode - it works well but I would limit iso to 400 as there is a lot of noise at 800. Also, when you pass a camera onto somebody else for temporary use and then expect it to come back, it is called lending, not borrowing. Borrowing is when you ask somebody to give you something on a temporary basis.

03-25-2010, 02:53 PM	#9
omega leader Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 417	Originally posted by aerodave I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal): You borrow something from another person You loan something to another person (or you may lend it) I was confused too. I think you NEED to spend time with him to practice, at least twice. Grab someone (spouse, anyone) have him shoot, EXPLAIN. Take 50 photos. Then go EDIT them with him, EXPLAIN why things happened. Then do it again. Then wish him good luck. I loaned by K10D to my mother (about the most technologically helpless person out there.) She however did fantastic. (didn't hurt she has been shooting with a manual everything RF for the last 40 years.) So its not impossible. If he is clueless after the two shoots then, well I don't really know.

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03-24-2010, 01:07 PM	#2
blackcloudbrew Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Cotati, California USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,460	I seriously mean this. Plan A, put it in totally in green mode for everything. ISO 100-800. Raw only. Plan B, put it in P mode but change the custom menu to have it set for DOF preference. You are insane, unless you get a disclaimer that you can't be helped if this friend screws it up.

03-24-2010, 02:51 PM	#3
Pauld Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Calgary, Alberta Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 507	I have to agree with blackcloudbrew on this one. The k10d can be confusing enough to a seasoned DSLR user but a complete nubey would be an accident waiting to happen. Putting it in green mode is the safest alternative, that way he won't have to fiddle with any settings. Better yet tell him to borrow a P+S from someone.

03-25-2010, 07:32 AM	#4
cps_goodbuy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ireland Posts: 291	EDIT: just realised you mentioned outdoors...darn Anyhow, I'm unsure if this flash can do the below... and if it is an indoor event and not on a sunny day. I used to do this with my old Metz 45 CL-4 and IstDS, once gave it to my brothers girlfriend sister whom was 8years old and she took some great photos, a little heavy for her but she was very careful with it! The look of worry from her parents ^^ hehe Anyhow, what about these kind of settings. Manual ftw? K10D: Central autofocus and explain recomposing... (especially the halfpress etc iso 100 aperture set to specific aperture, probably f5.6 (or f2.8 f4 f5.6 f8) shutter to 1/180 WB to flash Off SR Raw+Jpeg Flash: Flash in its own Auto mode -does it have an onboard sensor? corresponding iso corresponding aperture Maybe spend a little time fine tuning the camera for the conditions with +- Flash EV What do you think?

03-25-2010, 08:25 AM	#5
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Put it in green mode and tell him to leave it there.

03-25-2010, 10:48 AM	#6
aerodave Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 365	I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal): You borrow something from another person You loan something to another person (or you may lend it)

03-25-2010, 02:47 PM	#8
AVANT Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: California Posts: 426	I agree that the K10D is a tough jump. I'm still teaching my sister about photography on an Superzoom P&S with manual controls. K10D requires a lot more input to get the picture right. However, if you must require a set it and forget it setting. I would recommend these changes: > 100-400 auto iso, 400 is all you'll need outdoors, especially being paired with a f/2.8 lens, the noise jump to 640 in the off chance it needs to be used isn't worth it. > +0.3EV or +0.7EV, while it's great you like doing post processing, the less you have to do the better. Shadow detail is more important than highlight detail imo. The K10D tends to underexpose anyways. > -1.0FEV. You're using it as a fill flash, -0.5 is still too powerful. > I would consider skipping the diffusor. Diffusor + HSS + outdoor = a lot of flash power. Results in shorter battery life, longer recharge, etc. > Play with the jpg processing to bump up the settings to ATLEAST brightness (+2), contrast (+2), and sharpness (+1). Unless they are a true photo critic, I find people generally like punchy images, not detailed images. They've been brain washed by the Canon Nikon out of the box settings Since you're doing RAW + jpg anyways, your friend will appreciate the immediate presentable pictures while you work on the RAW image for the good stuff.

03-25-2010, 04:08 PM	#10
cps_goodbuy Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ireland Posts: 291	disposable? I've lent my cameras (shortterm) to many people, family, friends, strangers on the street.. it seems that young children get more keepers in my honest (but limited) opinion. People respond better to them, children have a different viewpoint, and are less influenced in capturing a photo in the way us adults are imo. My original idea was based on the wonderful metz that I use in onboard auto, lovely colours and exposure, with a manually set k10d. anyhow, give him the camera in auto everything mode? Edit: Thumbs up for your mother

03-25-2010, 11:53 PM	#11
sebberry Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Frozen white North Photos: Albums Posts: 1,135	I have had my K10D for a couple of years now and I am still trying to figure out how to use it. I wish your friend luck

03-26-2010, 07:40 AM	#12
epqwerty Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Ontario Posts: 550	Umm. Why wouldn't you just put the camera in full auto mode. Instead of Av mode. If he doesn't know how to use a SLR why make it complicated for him. Also the preset are good. The problem I think with av mode is that since he doesn't know much about DOF he will likely forget what corresponds to what and just shoot with what it is at and might miss something important. These moments are once in a lifetime. Nothing like having a blurry background when you really wanted the opposite.

03-27-2010, 03:36 AM	#13
Noisychip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282 Original Poster	Thanks to all for your replies, they are most appreciated How about AF with auto point selection? Does this make more sense than center point? Originally posted by aerodave I'm irritated by overzealous grammar Nazis as much as the next guy...but I just can't let this one slide (and therefore I don't think i'm being overzealous, just with a normal kind of zeal): You borrow something from another person You loan something to another person (or you may lend it) Thanks for clarifying that. Once again I tried to apply the grammatic structures of my language to yours ... The stupid thing is, I seem to make most of the mistakes in thread titles, where they can't be fixed Sorry for the confusion!

03-27-2010, 06:28 AM	#14
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,554	I would say green mode also. When I first bought my K10D, I used green mode the very first time out. It was a combination of indoor and outdoor shooting at night at our Village Christmas celebration, including fireworks. All the pictures came out fairly well. Slightly underexposed but nothing I couldn't fix in Picasa. I used the pop up flash.

03-28-2010, 07:21 AM	#15
Noisychip Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 282 Original Poster	Originally posted by cps_goodbuy EDIT: just realised you mentioned outdoors...darn (...) Flash: Flash in its own Auto mode -does it have an onboard sensor? Yes, the Metz 58-1 does have an Auto mode. But I was wondering if it will provide High Speed Sync in A Mode. Does anybody know?