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03-26-2010, 03:13 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Urkeldaedalus Quote
So I think your old girl has some life in her as long as the shutter still works
Thats it!!!!
..., thats what I feel...

03-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #17
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When I used the term obsolete, I didn't mean planned obsolescence as inflicted upon the world by General Motors, but rather electronic obsolescence and evolution inherent in Moore's Law. By the time any digital electronic device is designed, produced, and sold, newer designs will blow away its features, eat its shorts. But it will still work.

I have experienced / suffered digital obsolescence up close and personal. I built my first microcomputer in 1980, a HeathKit H8 that I soldered together from discrete components, chips, sockets, etc. The third-party memory board [D&G 64kb RAM, US$800] was immediately obsoleted [128kb RAM, US$600] just one month later. Ouch.

A digital camera, especially a simple point-and-shoot, is essentially a dedicated microcomputer with a lens, and thus directly a victim of Moore's Law. Our dSLRs are more complex, the design-obsolescence cycle is longer -- but forthcoming EVIL cams, on mechanically simpler platforms, will again be subject to fast design cycles. Once the first hit the market, expect them to evolve very quickly. THIS IS MY PROPHESY!

Let us hold and cherish our film and digital SLRs, these great lumbering beasts that are destined to be surpassed by lean, mean, EVIL machines. Selah!
03-26-2010, 04:03 PM   #18
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I also have a K10D, and sure, we've had our quarrels but I always keep coming back to her. I keep finding out new stuff about her and she completes my needs and I hopefully complete hers. The best parts come with age. The only way I would leave her would be to graciously hand her over to my human female companion which I have recently become engaged with and she would gladly have her own DSLR.
But seriously, the K10D still astounds me, and as mentioned, ISO 800 is not that bad on it if you know how to handle a bit of noise in dark areas. The build quality is fantastic compared to the market back then and is still very impressive, I mean how many people with other brands own weather sealed cameras even now? The handling is great, it's easy to use although a bit noisy but who cares apart from in church which I've heard that many people at least in the US are not even allowed to takes photos in.
My two ören.

Oh yeah, and about EVIL, why is it called that apart from that perhaps they are evil and taking over?
The only way I would own one would be if they had a bit bigger sensors, there is like no DOF on those or actually it is almost inf.

I'm done now.
03-26-2010, 04:26 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by StarDust Quote
Oh yeah, and about EVIL, why is it called that apart from that perhaps they are evil and taking over?
The only way I would own one would be if they had a bit bigger sensors, there is like no DOF on those or actually it is almost inf.
EVIL stands for Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens. Rather than all the optics and mechanics a SLR uses to get a through-the-lens view to your eye (mirror, pentaprism, etc) it's more like a rangefinder with a liveview viewfinder aka EVF. So it's lighter and thinner, and the only moving parts are controls and (in the Pentax universe) the SR sensor and AF drive motor. Why EVILs haven't hit the market yet, I don't know -- they're announced but not produced. Is a mystery...

QuoteQuote:
I'm done now.
Obsolete but still functional, eh?

03-26-2010, 08:08 PM   #20
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Ansel Adams lugged his view camera around. I think he only had one more plate left, and had to make some fast mental calculations for this famous shot, based on his experience of the exposure value of the moon. This shot is iconic and still evokes awe and respect. So, consider, a box made of wood and metal with some bellows and everything about it was manual. We now have far more advanced tools, with almost instant recourse to the image.

Go out and shoot, get lost in some urban or natural landscape, think about the story you want to tell and surprise us and yourself!
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03-26-2010, 09:12 PM   #21
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I, too, am a K10d user, and recently another site member contacted me about some recent images so he could have a detailed look. I sent him a PEF from the series, and he was quite impressed with the exposure (Pentax multi zone pattern metering, no compensation) and the detail (ISO 100 on a K10D). Last year, I sent two images to MPix for printing. They rated the quality high enough for 24" x 36" prints. I had two gallery wraps done 16" x 24" (print size including the wrap, 19" x 27") and am still astounded at how good they look from inches away.

As I enjoy taking pictures of birds and other wildlife, I waited for the 10 Mp camera from Pentax. I know that 6 Mp is enough for a magazine cover from an editorial by a respected professional photographer (no - not Pentax) so I figured that 10 Mp would be the right amount to allow me some cropping room.

I'm with the OP - I love my k10d.
08-17-2010, 12:19 PM   #22
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One person's outdated and obsolete camera can be another person's idea of perfect, IMHO. I want a K-x or a K-7 pretty madly, but you know if an *ist should just fall into my lap I'm not about to scorn it just because it's older. I'd be happy just to finally have a DSLR.

FYI, my Fuji point and shoot is something like 8 years old and while it still functions it's giving me some problems now in terms of the LCD buttons not responding. I'm actually pretty amazed that it's lasted this long.

Pentax DSLR? I'm thinking that camera of yours likely has plenty of usage left in it barring you drop it in the bathtub or something like. If my little Fuji can last this long, just imagine what a Pentax can last through comparatively speaking.

More mega-pixels isn't everything. If it's not broke, and it still does everything you need it to? Then why bother to upgrade?I can see upgrading for tech reasons. If one camera does something more than you need, but upgrading just to upgrade?

I'm not really all that big on it. To me, that's a waste of money, but then again I guess it's a good thing for some of us because likely I'll be getting my first DSLR down the road from someone who just "had" to have something better. If people didn't want to upgrade sometimes then there wouldn't be good used cameras out there...

Last edited by magkelly; 08-18-2010 at 10:34 AM.
08-17-2010, 12:45 PM   #23
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I love my K10D and until Pentax comes up with something drastically better (or FF) I see no reason or benefit to upgrade to a newer model.

08-17-2010, 01:18 PM   #24
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There are generally improvements in technology over time -- more so in the digital world than in other arenas (say, toilet paper), but the fact that there are "better" cameras out there doesn't mean that you have to get one. That said, if you are a professional photographer and feel like you aren't able to get photos that your competitors are getting because your equipment isn't adequate, then you need to think about an upgrade.

That is not the reason that most people upgrade, but rationalization is all about turning a want into a need.
08-17-2010, 04:53 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
EVIL stands for Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens. Rather than all the optics and mechanics a SLR uses to get a through-the-lens view to your eye (mirror, pentaprism, etc) it's more like a rangefinder with a liveview viewfinder aka EVF. So it's lighter and thinner, and the only moving parts are controls and (in the Pentax universe) the SR sensor and AF drive motor. Why EVILs haven't hit the market yet, I don't know -- they're announced but not produced. Is a mystery..
So would an EVIL have a traditional viewfinder, or just the electronic? Many times I will use the screen on the back of my P&S, it never does feel quite natural holding the camera out in front.

By the way, I still occasionally use a '59 vintage Bell & Howell 16mm movie cam....
08-17-2010, 04:54 PM   #26
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I've been shooting for many many years (but never Pentax), gave up film around 1990, went digital in 2002, got my first dSLR a couple years ago. I did a LOT of research before lenses pointed me towards Pentax. That research included reading tech reports, and user reviews, and paying close attention to griping-bitching-moaning-groaning-whining etc. Many Canikoners expressed great interest in / anxiety over 'upgrading' their cams as soon as possible. Ugh.

I bought a K20D precisely because I *didn't* want to feel that I'd have to upgrade within a few years. Good feature set, rugged build, lotsa megapickles, etc. I've been only slightly tempted by Kx and K7 -- I don't need the video, the JPEG tricks, the smaller size -- and I *do* need the tethering. And since I'm no longer employed or employable, I can't really afford an upgrade. I need another inheritance. I need some relative to die. No volunteers yet.

Apparently many other owners of pre-K7 cams likewise feel no need of an upgrade. Others are attracted by the newer feature sets and body size, and that's great. Yes, definitely buy new K7s and K5s and K9s, Kx's and Ky's and Kz's -- keep Pentax profitable, keep the Hoya managers and stockholders happy. Purchase only new PenHoya products, and the world will be a better place. Help support global financial recovery. It is your duty.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bob photo 4 life Quote
So would an EVIL have a traditional viewfinder, or just the electronic?
EV stands for ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDER and that's what you'd get, like the little video peep-screens on analog camcorders. Many feel that EV's aren't yet evolved enough for the big time, that they just don't render detailed imagery well enough for critical shooting.

QuoteQuote:
By the way, I still occasionally use a '59 vintage Bell & Howell 16mm movie cam....
You are among the blessed...

Last edited by RioRico; 08-17-2010 at 05:02 PM.
08-17-2010, 04:57 PM   #27
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Let's put it this way, one shouldn't look at camera obsolescence based on how long the camera can last but on the volume of images taken with it. That old 35mm film camera will last because let's be honest, how many people have put in 10,000- 20,000 shots through their film cameras? Contrast that with a digital camera and you'll find that people are on the whole shooting a lot more. So I see no issue with modern cameras being superceded by another model because technology doesn't stand still. Live with it.
08-17-2010, 05:39 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote

EV stands for ELECTRONIC VIEWFINDER and that's what you'd get, like the little video peep-screens on analog camcorders. Many feel that EV's aren't yet evolved enough for the big time, that they just don't render detailed imagery well enough for critical shooting.
Oh, I get it now, sometimes I need to be hit with it a few times to understand.....
08-17-2010, 06:18 PM   #29
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I've been taking about 4000 photos per year on my K10d (just rolled over 10k in 2.5 years). That's actually around what I was shooting during my most prolific years with my K1000 and film.

At this rate if my K10d body lasts to half of its rated shutter life (~50k actuations) I should be good for another 10 years or so. I'll probably move to a new primary body before that, but it will take either the failure of my current body or a vastly superior new Pentax body for that to happen, as I'm still not using my K10d at anywhere close to its full capability.
08-18-2010, 02:26 AM   #30
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Obsolete?
I read an article this past weekend about how the new mobile phones are going to make the following things obsolete over night; in-car GPSs, P&S cameras, Kindle type readers, I-pads, netbooks, and some "low end" DSLRs. I guess there will be a lot of these items going cheap in the near future. As others have pointed out, most things are considered obsolete as soon as you buy them.
I still have the same 35mm that I bought 25 years ago. It still works and the pictures it takes are still perfectly usable. Is it obsolete, yes. Film and getting it processed are a pain. Will I get rid of it, hell no...:-)
I love the idea that I'm using most of the same lenses for my Program Plus that I am for my DL, K-10, and K-20.
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