K20D memory card problem

bodhi08 · 04-09-2010, 03:03 PM

I've just bought a second hand K20D and I have this problem with the camera.
I have two 4GB memory cards and somehow the camera only register 166/167 images for each using RAW DNG (no JPEG). I tried changing to RAW PEF but it is the same 167 images.

I've put the card in the *IST DS and the DS tells me that I can take 322 images for each card using the RAW PEF.

Am I missing something here?
It seems that the K20D only register 2GB of the 4GB memory cards.
Is this a firmware problem?

PS: before anyone comment on the difference of megapixels of the two cameras, I checked the images from both cameras and they are around 10MP each. Yes, it is true that my *ist DS recorded 10MP (file size) images.

cheers

Oggy · 04-09-2010, 04:15 PM

Hi Bodhi08.

If I set my K20 with a 4Gb card up as you mention I get 166 pictures available, but if I take a picture it comes out as 23Mb rather than 10. This adds up about right.

SpecialK · 04-09-2010, 06:24 PM

I have a 16 GB card that registers about 660 shots - the same number per GB as you.

You do not have camera problem. The problem is your understanding about MPs and actual files size...

MP is NOT a file size.

bodhi08 · 04-09-2010, 06:30 PM

Oggy:
That's odd.

I was taking photos using K20D and FA* 85mm. All I get is 14MB images at most.
(I have not taken that many photos, maybe about 20-30).
I'll take more pics later

Is this normal?

SpecialK:
As Oggy mentioned, he can get 23MB pics using K20D. I am not sure why I only getting 14MB images...

**Ash** · 04-09-2010, 07:41 PM

Yes, it's still normal as the camera can only estimate how many remaining images will fit on your card, and generally overestimates image size to calculate this figure.
Shoot to fill the card yourself and you'll find you could, depending on what you shoot, fit more than 167 on your card.
Not all RAW images are 23Mb - remember that PEFs are compressed RAW files, and as such ranges from about 10-20Mb in size.

sterretje · 04-09-2010, 10:23 PM

As Ash states, the PEFs on a K20D are compressed (in a lossless way). Therefore it depends on the content of the image how big the final size (in MB) is.

Oggy · 04-10-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Oggy:
That's odd.

I was taking photos using K20D and FA* 85mm. All I get is 14MB images at most.
(I have not taken that many photos, maybe about 20-30).
I'll take more pics later

Is this normal?

SpecialK:
As Oggy mentioned, he can get 23MB pics using K20D. I am not sure why I only getting 14MB images...

It gets odder. I have to say I do not use .DNG so I do not know a lot about them, but I have just tried a few experiments. All done with a 4Gb card -

If I select DNG, I get a file size of about 23Mb and 166 pictures available, total about 4Gb.

If I select PEF, I get a file size of 13Mb, but still 166 pictutes, just over 2Gb.

If I select RAW+ and the highest quality Jpeg, for each picture I get two files total 23Mb and 104 pictures available, about 2.5Gb.

Now I am confused. Either file sizes are being reported wrong or one file(Jpeg) can form part of another.

**Ash** · 04-10-2010, 02:56 PM

Again, the camera can only guess how many photos it can fit onto your SD card.
It will estimate PEFs and DNGs similarly despite their obvious file size differences.
Forget the maths, just go ahead and shoot and you'll see the total number of images that your card will take differ accordingly.

creampuff · 04-10-2010, 05:22 PM

OP, the *ist DS records a RAW file at 3008 x 2008 pixels from its 6.1 megapixel sensor.
Shooting RAW, a 1 GB SD card will yield 90 images on the *ist DS.

Whereas the K20D records a RAW file that is 4672 x 3104 pixels from its 14.6 megapixel sensor. Shooting RAW, a 1GB SD card will only yield 40 images.

Basically the file sizes of the RAW files are different because of the increase in the number of recorded pixels from the higher megapixel sensor.
Nothing wrong with your memory card. Refer to the specs below.

http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/slr/ist-ds/spec.html
http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/slr/k20d/spec.html

bodhi08 · 04-10-2010, 07:15 PM

Thanks everyone for replying.

I tossed the maths out the window like Ash suggested and took some pics. It was fun...great fun.

I ended up with image files around 24.4 MB. I was like...WOW...

This one of the images:

**Ash** · 04-10-2010, 10:07 PM

I take it you shot in DNG - there'd be more consistency in file size in that format.
But glad you enjoyed just shooting.

Now get yourself some lighting to boost the exposure of your subjects.

sterretje · 04-10-2010, 11:41 PM

I like the photo and would not add additional light in this case. It just gives something mysterious.

I think it can be a bit sharper; looks like there is a slight blur in it.

bodhi08 · 04-11-2010, 05:24 AM

Ash:

I am thinking of the same thing. Any suggestion whether I should get Metz 58 or Pentax 540 or Sigma 530 DG Super?

I was using the slow sync flash and I love it. It's a bit tricky to use at first because there are limitations and rules to follow and these are not written in the manual

sterretje:
Thanks for your kind comment.

Maybe it's because it was shot f/1.8 using the FA 50mm f/1.7. And part of it because of the very low quality jpeg (it's only about 190 kB in size).
I can sharpen it up a bit

Tuner571 · 04-11-2010, 06:06 AM

Glad to see that you worked out the problem. Since the files on the K20D are bigger it only makes sense that you would be able to fill it with less files then your *ist ds.

Oggy · 04-12-2010, 01:51 PM

Well - I've asked elsewhere and I've heard some real bull's wool but no-one really seems to know. I have not had a full card shoot since tha last airshow I went to last year, but I did some experiments copying files back onto the card and the fuller it gets, the more reasonable the number left gets.

Ho hum.

04-09-2010, 03:03 PM	#1
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180	K20D memory card problem I've just bought a second hand K20D and I have this problem with the camera. I have two 4GB memory cards and somehow the camera only register 166/167 images for each using RAW DNG (no JPEG). I tried changing to RAW PEF but it is the same 167 images. I've put the card in the IST DS and the DS tells me that I can take 322 images for each card using the RAW PEF. Am I missing something here? It seems that the K20D only register 2GB of the 4GB memory cards. Is this a firmware problem? PS: before anyone comment on the difference of megapixels of the two cameras, I checked the images from both cameras and they are around 10MP each. Yes, it is true that my ist DS recorded 10MP (file size) images. cheers

04-10-2010, 07:15 PM	#10
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Thanks Thanks everyone for replying. I tossed the maths out the window like Ash suggested and took some pics. It was fun...great fun. I ended up with image files around 24.4 MB. I was like...WOW... This one of the images: Attached Images

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04-09-2010, 04:15 PM	#2
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Hi Bodhi08. If I set my K20 with a 4Gb card up as you mention I get 166 pictures available, but if I take a picture it comes out as 23Mb rather than 10. This adds up about right.

04-09-2010, 06:24 PM	#3
SpecialK Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: So California Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,480	I have a 16 GB card that registers about 660 shots - the same number per GB as you. You do not have camera problem. The problem is your understanding about MPs and actual files size... MP is NOT a file size.

04-09-2010, 06:30 PM	#4
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Oggy: That's odd. I was taking photos using K20D and FA* 85mm. All I get is 14MB images at most. (I have not taken that many photos, maybe about 20-30). I'll take more pics later Is this normal? SpecialK: As Oggy mentioned, he can get 23MB pics using K20D. I am not sure why I only getting 14MB images...

04-09-2010, 07:41 PM	#5
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Yes, it's still normal as the camera can only estimate how many remaining images will fit on your card, and generally overestimates image size to calculate this figure. Shoot to fill the card yourself and you'll find you could, depending on what you shoot, fit more than 167 on your card. Not all RAW images are 23Mb - remember that PEFs are compressed RAW files, and as such ranges from about 10-20Mb in size.

04-09-2010, 10:23 PM	#6
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	As Ash states, the PEFs on a K20D are compressed (in a lossless way). Therefore it depends on the content of the image how big the final size (in MB) is.

04-10-2010, 02:14 PM	#7
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Originally posted by bodhi08 Oggy: That's odd. I was taking photos using K20D and FA* 85mm. All I get is 14MB images at most. (I have not taken that many photos, maybe about 20-30). I'll take more pics later Is this normal? SpecialK: As Oggy mentioned, he can get 23MB pics using K20D. I am not sure why I only getting 14MB images... It gets odder. I have to say I do not use .DNG so I do not know a lot about them, but I have just tried a few experiments. All done with a 4Gb card - If I select DNG, I get a file size of about 23Mb and 166 pictures available, total about 4Gb. If I select PEF, I get a file size of 13Mb, but still 166 pictutes, just over 2Gb. If I select RAW+ and the highest quality Jpeg, for each picture I get two files total 23Mb and 104 pictures available, about 2.5Gb. Now I am confused. Either file sizes are being reported wrong or one file(Jpeg) can form part of another.

04-10-2010, 02:56 PM	#8
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Again, the camera can only guess how many photos it can fit onto your SD card. It will estimate PEFs and DNGs similarly despite their obvious file size differences. Forget the maths, just go ahead and shoot and you'll see the total number of images that your card will take differ accordingly.

04-10-2010, 05:22 PM	#9
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	OP, the ist DS records a RAW file at 3008 x 2008 pixels from its 6.1 megapixel sensor. Shooting RAW, a 1 GB SD card will yield 90 images on the ist DS. Whereas the K20D records a RAW file that is 4672 x 3104 pixels from its 14.6 megapixel sensor. Shooting RAW, a 1GB SD card will only yield 40 images. Basically the file sizes of the RAW files are different because of the increase in the number of recorded pixels from the higher megapixel sensor. Nothing wrong with your memory card. Refer to the specs below. http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/slr/ist-ds/spec.html http://www.pentax.jp/english/imaging/digital/slr/k20d/spec.html

04-10-2010, 10:07 PM	#11
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	I take it you shot in DNG - there'd be more consistency in file size in that format. But glad you enjoyed just shooting. Now get yourself some lighting to boost the exposure of your subjects.

04-10-2010, 11:41 PM	#12
sterretje Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Roodepoort, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,561	I like the photo and would not add additional light in this case. It just gives something mysterious. I think it can be a bit sharper; looks like there is a slight blur in it.

04-11-2010, 05:24 AM	#13
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Ash: I am thinking of the same thing. Any suggestion whether I should get Metz 58 or Pentax 540 or Sigma 530 DG Super? I was using the slow sync flash and I love it. It's a bit tricky to use at first because there are limitations and rules to follow and these are not written in the manual sterretje: Thanks for your kind comment. Maybe it's because it was shot f/1.8 using the FA 50mm f/1.7. And part of it because of the very low quality jpeg (it's only about 190 kB in size). I can sharpen it up a bit

04-11-2010, 06:06 AM	#14
Tuner571 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,549	Glad to see that you worked out the problem. Since the files on the K20D are bigger it only makes sense that you would be able to fill it with less files then your *ist ds.

04-12-2010, 01:51 PM	#15
Oggy Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: West Sussex UK Posts: 235	Well - I've asked elsewhere and I've heard some real bull's wool but no-one really seems to know. I have not had a full card shoot since tha last airshow I went to last year, but I did some experiments copying files back onto the card and the fuller it gets, the more reasonable the number left gets. Ho hum.