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04-12-2010, 07:56 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I think, possibly this is because pentax foolishly assumed that 'FF' was not going to be something too important once they saw how quickly APS-C took over the market. I think they didnt look far enough into the future and are now suffering due to their over-investment in the format. I think that pentax wants to put out a FF body, but realizes that they arent in a position to do so. they know that FF could make them profits and bring in more revenue through an expanded customer base, they just realize that they have gotten themselves deep into aps-c (in a way the others didnt) and so they must continue to push the format. of course, one could argue that investing in FF could have killed pentax the way it killed contax, they knew this and thus invested in the smaller format knowing exactly what they were doing.
You are correct in your conclusion: one could argue that investing in FF could have killed pentax the way it killed contax, they knew this and thus invested in the smaller format knowing exactly what they were doing.

This is the exact reason, I think, why Pentax refrained from FF cameras. Yes, they lost a couple of buyers. But they concentrated on getting much more buyers for the much more affordable APS-C system. Following the disasters of the MZ-D and the very poor market performance of their several generations of AF cameras, they had erodet their customer base way too much, to concentrate on a few high-end customers. If I rememeber rightly, the market share of FF cameras from all manufacturers summed up is smaller than the Pentax market share alone in the APS-C field.

We had lots of discussions about that, so I stop here. Yes, I would like to have a FF Pentax, but I can understand why they didn't make one and the image quality of the current line of Pentax cameras is fine for me.

Ben

04-12-2010, 08:01 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I think this thread is filled with people trying to win a new camera LOL!

Seriously, Pentax and others should consider creating an SDK ( Software Development Kit) and foster the creation of third-party programs/updates to both current and older cameras.

Want an intervalometer that will take 10,000 photos?
There's an app for that.

Want full manual control of video?
There's an app for that.

etc. etc...

Worked pretty well for the iPhone.

The iPhone is an electronics gadget, the Pentaxes are… cameras. If Pentax released an SDK, they would have to take responsibility for that. The necessary support would kill the company. They would be flooded by support requests and the repair centers would be flooded with dead cameras.

In the past (film days) a Olympus engineer complained to me, that 80% of repairs where completely unnecessary, as just the batteries were dead and needed replacement. People somehow tend to think, technical gadgets just miracleously work. Then they would start installing apps or perceived "functionality upgrades" from the web and finally will wonder, why the camera does not work at all or produces rubbish results. I can very much understand, why no camera manufacturer would take that risk.

Ben
04-12-2010, 08:45 AM   #33
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Digital technology is changing pretty quickly. The K200D lasted about as long as other camera's in the same class. The fact that you can't find one is a good thing for Pentax as they have all been sold. I see Nikon D40's everywhere on store shelves, even though it went out of production a good while ago. Imagine a new owners feeling to get home with that DSLR they saved up for, only to discover it is outdated and discontinued.
04-12-2010, 08:49 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by yeatzee Quote
The feelings are not mutual on my end..... Personally the only thing im upset about is no K200d replacement. The Kx would have been at home in the K200d's body, and they would have sold many more IMO than they are now.
This. I see them over it with K7, and under it with KX. No plans to replace my K200, but someday I might want to.

04-12-2010, 10:17 AM   #35
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Personally, I like the fact that the short run of the K200d makes it a more exclusive item in the broader world of cameras. Being smaller in size but still weather resistant, this is a terrific body. Slap a WR 18-55 lens on it (which I've done), and you've got a unique and super comfortable combo. The OP has completely missed the boat on this one, imho.
04-12-2010, 12:01 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ben_Edict Quote
The iPhone is an electronics gadget, the Pentaxes are… cameras. If Pentax released an SDK, they would have to take responsibility for that. The necessary support would kill the company. They would be flooded by support requests and the repair centers would be flooded with dead cameras.

In the past (film days) a Olympus engineer complained to me, that 80% of repairs where completely unnecessary, as just the batteries were dead and needed replacement. People somehow tend to think, technical gadgets just miracleously work. Then they would start installing apps or perceived "functionality upgrades" from the web and finally will wonder, why the camera does not work at all or produces rubbish results. I can very much understand, why no camera manufacturer would take that risk.

Ben
As someone who has been in IT for more than 30 years, I listen to this argument about "open source firmware" or a "software developer kit" and comparisons to the iPhone with a bit of amusement. I must confess that I don't own an iPhone, but as far as I know, the apps that are available for the iPhone don't fundamentally alter the way the telephone or builtin camera work. The apps may USE the telephone or camera, and may enable you to do some really cool stuff, but the basic telephone and camera functions are unchanged.

That is because the iPhone is more of a general-purpose computer than a camera is. Apple built it with enough processing power (cpu and memory) to handle all the telephone functions, AND let developers create new apps.

What people seem to be asking of Pentax is to be able to rewrite the fundamental operating system of the camera and add/subtract/modify existing features that, in the opinion of some, don't measure up. The apps in an iPhone are segregated from the Apple firmware. As such, it is not possible (or at least extremely unlikely) that a third-party app could cause the telephone or camera to fail. I'm quite sure that Apple went to great lengths to insure this. Otherwise, they would be swamped with warranty claims.

Yes, I suppose a camera COULD be designed in a fashion, similar to the iPhone, that allowed third-party apps. Do you want to check your stock portfolio from your camera? Do you want to email a picture directly from your camera, via the builtin wifi adapter? You might be allowed to do that, but I don't think that Pentax, or any other manufacturer is EVER going to allow you to mess around with the autofocus or exposure algorithms. Or retrofit screw-drive AF for a failed SDM lens. Or increase the FPS. Or increase the flash synch speed (if that's even possible w/o a hardware mod).

The iPhone operating system is anything but open. It is no more open than Microsoft's Windows OS is. You can write apps to run under either OS, but very, very, very few people outside of MS ever get to see the actual source code for Windows itself.
04-12-2010, 12:39 PM   #37
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Wow talk about a thread high-jack!
04-12-2010, 01:30 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I think this thread is filled with people trying to win a new camera LOL!
Personally I don't think an extra post now and then on top of my usual one or two is going to make much difference to me winning .. daft idea anyway if you ask me, just filling up the forum with more carp than usual.

04-12-2010, 01:49 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
As someone who has been in IT for more than 30 years, I listen to this argument about "open source firmware" or a "software developer kit" and comparisons to the iPhone with a bit of amusement. I must confess that I don't own an iPhone, but as far as I know, the apps that are available for the iPhone don't fundamentally alter the way the telephone or builtin camera work. The apps may USE the telephone or camera, and may enable you to do some really cool stuff, but the basic telephone and camera functions are unchanged.

That is because the iPhone is more of a general-purpose computer than a camera is. Apple built it with enough processing power (cpu and memory) to handle all the telephone functions, AND let developers create new apps.

What people seem to be asking of Pentax is to be able to rewrite the fundamental operating system of the camera and add/subtract/modify existing features that, in the opinion of some, don't measure up. The apps in an iPhone are segregated from the Apple firmware. As such, it is not possible (or at least extremely unlikely) that a third-party app could cause the telephone or camera to fail. I'm quite sure that Apple went to great lengths to insure this. Otherwise, they would be swamped with warranty claims.

Yes, I suppose a camera COULD be designed in a fashion, similar to the iPhone, that allowed third-party apps. Do you want to check your stock portfolio from your camera? Do you want to email a picture directly from your camera, via the builtin wifi adapter? You might be allowed to do that, but I don't think that Pentax, or any other manufacturer is EVER going to allow you to mess around with the autofocus or exposure algorithms. Or retrofit screw-drive AF for a failed SDM lens. Or increase the FPS. Or increase the flash synch speed (if that's even possible w/o a hardware mod).

The iPhone operating system is anything but open. It is no more open than Microsoft's Windows OS is. You can write apps to run under either OS, but very, very, very few people outside of MS ever get to see the actual source code for Windows itself.
I agree that there's no way that Pentax or anyone else would open up the source code - there's probably plenty of intellectual property in there that they don't want disclosed. Thus the idea of a SDK and not an open source camera OS. There's no technical reason why a camera can't be built with a layer open to third party development, and Pentax can determine how close to the silicon they let developers get. Just look at the community that's developed around CHDK to see what's possible.

With customized control, weatherproof Pentaxes will find themselves in very interesting applications. The other thread about a Pentax in space is just the tip of the iceberg.

Like it or not, the camera crossed over to the dark side the day they replaced film with a sensor.

Sorry to the OP for this topic drifting off...
04-12-2010, 02:07 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike.P® Quote
Personally I don't think an extra post now and then on top of my usual one or two is going to make much difference to me winning .. daft idea anyway if you ask me, just filling up the forum with more carp than usual.
You mean like this?

04-12-2010, 02:21 PM   #41
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Do you mean like this? LOL
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04-12-2010, 03:22 PM   #42
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They haven't abandoned the K200D users - mine still works fine.

The only thing Pentax can be accused of is to not have provided any direct upgrade path - they don't make any new cameras that has all the features the K200D had.

The K-x lacks weather sealing and a grip connector which were both on the K200D and thus is partly a downgrade.

The K7 uses lithium-ion batteries instead of AA, which is different - I consider it a downgrade.
04-12-2010, 04:36 PM   #43
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and k-x lacks the top lcd too.
04-12-2010, 04:44 PM   #44
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It looks like Elvis has left the building on this one...
04-12-2010, 04:49 PM   #45
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Re: Pentax Abandoned K200D Users...

QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain:
They haven't abandoned the K200D users - mine still works fine.

The only thing Pentax can be accused of is to not have provided any direct upgrade path - they don't make any new cameras that has all the features the K200D had.

The K-x lacks weather sealing and a grip connector which were both on the K200D and thus is partly a downgrade.

The K7 uses lithium-ion batteries instead of AA, which is different - I consider it a downgrade.
I completely agree. One of thefew things I wish the K200D had and whatever incarnation replacement gets is the ability to shoot teathered to a computer. The k20d has this but I love the AA battery aspect of the K200D.
The next iteration will have to have a larger ISO range to shoot in low light. Movie mode like the K7 would just be an added bonus IMHO.
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