A Pentaxian experience at a "Birds of prey" observatory.

kacansas03 · 06-24-2010, 02:32 PM

I can agree with most all the views listed here. But there is another option. Save up your dollars and buy that seemingly clumsy huge long lens. Then buy what it takes to support it. Then find a spot that overlooks where everyone else is gathered. Set it up there and with the longer focal length you still get the photograph as Your photo not theirs.
I ran into this same problem trying to photograph eagles around Lake Pepin in southern MN. The above was my solution but another part of it was a strong monopod with tilt head that can support my 300 or 400 and then a TC between 1.4 and 1.7 behind the lens if it is a bright day. I also go when others don't have the time such as weekdays. All of it has helped me avoid the crowds which gets eagles closer to the lone human. I think that there are always ways to get around the crush of people problem, arrive early(big one), pick a similar spot that most will not find, go a different time or day and probably many more. One just has to wish to try to work the problem.

**jpzk** · 06-30-2010, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by iFoto

you should go there on a rainy day and you are gone have the whole spot for yourself
most canikons do not like rain at all - i found out

or get a pentax 600 - it makes all other 600 looking like a still-growing-version

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/86756-real-size-f*-600mm-4-a.html

600mm too .. too much $$$ for me! ... and it's bigger than me!
Yeas, rainy days can really be great days; birds do feed regardless.
JP

**jpzk** · 06-30-2010, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by mysticcowboy

I understand your frustration and I've been on the other side of the equation, too. I'm not a hardcore nature photographer but have friends who are and have listened to them often enough to understand their point of view. And I've been taken advantage of when moving out of my carefully chosen spot. Look at it like this: If I stand in line for concert tickets, I'm not going to take less desirable seats because someone else came late and feels left out.

You make the effort to get to someplace early. You carefully choose your spot. Then people casually show up later and want to move you. I've said yes often enough to realize that as often as not, they will actually set up in front and ruin your field of view. Now that's really annoying, doing someone a favor just to have them ruin your shots.

Serious nature photographers get out into the field early, often before dawn. If it's a public viewing area that means waiting at the gate for it to open. It's not a matter of big lenses or big name cameras. It's respecting those who are just as serious. They consider those who arrive late and come and go as annoyances, which they are.

Therefore, as Plato pointed out, thou shall arise afore the end of the sunrise.
JP

Transit · 06-30-2010, 08:20 PM

Originally posted by jpzk

no chance: nobody moves even half an inch.

JP

one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away'
Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ?
An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library

Pete

pentaxmz · 07-02-2010, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

One morning this week: perfect weather for a planned outing to the National Park about one hour away from my place.
The plan: get to the park observatory where one can admire/photograph the several species of birds of prey coming in the St Lawrence River valley during Spring migration. (eagles, hawks, etc...)

After a short drive off the main highway, you get to the parking area: full! Nowhere to park the car! Gotta back up and find a spot. Gotta walk up to the observatory now.
I take by beloved Pentax gear out: tripod, K7, K20D, and of course my DA*300/4 with a 1.7X Pentax adapter ... that should be enough to get me some half decent shots of the flying birds.
Gotta find a spot to install my stuff now ... of course, there are at least 12 to 15 photographers and a bunch more of people with fancy ornithology "surveillance equipment" already in place, at the best spots. No way to get close to the edge of the cliff (which is fenced for security reasons) because of that.
I set up my gear ... behind everyone, try to get a little closer so at least I can see some of the scenery ... no chance: nobody moves even half an inch.
Among monster-size white Canon and Nikon lenses, gimball heads and huge Swarovski "digiscopes", my attempts to get closer are futile.
One very "nice" lady asked me what sort/brand of camera I had; she had this puzzled look on her face as if my photo gear was some sort of "whatever".
"Pentax" I said.
"Oh!" she said, and turned back to her observing business.
I even gently asked if I could "squeeze in" ... no dice! Would you believe that? "We are already quite squeezed" someone tells me.
"I'll wait until someone leaves, that's OK", I said.
"You might have to wait all day", another fellow answers.

OK, ... I'm going back home. This is it! No more of this!

Drove back home; one hour drive again and pissed off.
No pictures either.

I feel good now that I have vented my frustration.

JP

I am assuming that it is a public observatory, built with public dollars, therefore you are entitled to access just as much as any other citizen.

I think the problem is that everyone should be alloted a reasonable time limit and others should respect this. I would contact the parks board about this (or join the board). Just because someone has 'superior equipment' it doesn't mean they are automatically entitled to their spot for the entire day.

What they did was clearly rude!

**jpzk** · 07-08-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by Transit

one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away'
Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ?
An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library

Pete

I have an idea: get a large bean meal with beer the night before!

JP

Mr Hyde · 07-08-2010, 09:30 PM

I totally feel for you (and everyone else) when it comes to dealing with rude people. I tend to cut non photographers a little more slack since they probably just dont understand or may not notice. But when a photographer is rude to another photographer it really burns my butt.

I was attending a reinactment of the battle of Monmouth in NJ. A rank of soldiers were getting to fire a volley. I had taken care to position myself behind all the people who were there before me. Most were not taking photos but were just sitting on the ground and on lawn chairs watching. I was standing behind them with my camera and attached Bigma on a monopod. I saw the officer just about to give the order to fire. I focused and just as I was taking the shot, Mr Canon White lens jumped in front of me so I got a nice shot of his back.

I probably should have let it go but I didnt. He moved to another spot and sat down in front of some family who was there before him. I walked over and stuck my monopod right in front of his lens. we had a few words... then he moved on.

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siva.ss.kumar · 07-08-2010, 11:25 PM

Originally posted by Mr Hyde

I totally feel for you (and everyone else) when it comes to dealing with rude people. I tend to cut non photographers a little more slack since they probably just dont understand or may not notice. But when a photographer is rude to another photographer it really burns my butt.

I was attending a reinactment of the battle of Monmouth in NJ. A rank of soldiers were getting to fire a volley. I had taken care to position myself behind all the people who were there before me. Most were not taking photos but were just sitting on the ground and on lawn chairs watching. I was standing behind them with my camera and attached Bigma on a monopod. I saw the officer just about to give the order to fire. I focused and just as I was taking the shot, Mr Canon White lens jumped in front of me so I got a nice shot of his back.

I probably should have let it go but I didnt. He moved to another spot and sat down in front of some family who was there before him. I walked over and stuck my monopod right in front of his lens. we had a few words... then he moved on.

Yeah. Now this is called the 'Camera Wars'

The following happened to me. Some of us were photographing birds (monthly affair) and one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear

Of course, I didn't even what he was saying and kept shooting

simico · 07-09-2010, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by siva.ss.kumar

one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear

hilarious

siva.ss.kumar · 07-09-2010, 03:52 AM

Originally posted by simico

hilarious

Oh. I should have added that the Canon guy was even more embarrassed at this

And that this was before I had my 'Bigma'. Now, I get more respect

ivoire · 07-09-2010, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by jpzk

I have an idea: get a large bean meal with beer the night before!

JP

Or just take a sack o' rats with you next time...... and for maximum effect, add a bag 'o cats!

**jpzk** · 07-09-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Mr Hyde

I totally feel for you (and everyone else) when it comes to dealing with rude people. I tend to cut non photographers a little more slack since they probably just dont understand or may not notice. But when a photographer is rude to another photographer it really burns my butt.

I was attending a reinactment of the battle of Monmouth in NJ. A rank of soldiers were getting to fire a volley. I had taken care to position myself behind all the people who were there before me. Most were not taking photos but were just sitting on the ground and on lawn chairs watching. I was standing behind them with my camera and attached Bigma on a monopod. I saw the officer just about to give the order to fire. I focused and just as I was taking the shot, Mr Canon White lens jumped in front of me so I got a nice shot of his back.

I probably should have let it go but I didnt. He moved to another spot and sat down in front of some family who was there before him. I walked over and stuck my monopod right in front of his lens. we had a few words... then he moved on.

Now, that was rude!
Looks like Mr Big White was taking all the space for himself too!
I agree with your response and I would have done the same thing ... if the guy had been a tad smaller !

... with my short stature, I wouldn't even dare doing it for fear of facing an ogre of some sort.
Nevertheless, congrats on your timely response to this man's arrogance.
Cheers!

JP

**jpzk** · 07-09-2010, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by siva.ss.kumar

Yeah. Now this is called the 'Camera Wars'

The following happened to me. Some of us were photographing birds (monthly affair) and one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear

Of course, I didn't even what he was saying and kept shooting

Would be interesting to see what kind of better pictures this fellow ended up with with his supposedly better gear!

JP

**jpzk** · 07-09-2010, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by ivoire

Or just take a sack o' rats with you next time...... and for maximum effect, add a bag 'o cats!

I suppose this could be arranged!

JP

k54 · 07-11-2010, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Transit

one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away'
Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ?
An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library

Pete

There is a small capsule called "stink bomb" that I buy at fun houses or fun stores.

I use it and throw on the floor to disperse unwanted, unruly, or uncooperative crowd.

I also bring Chinese firecrackers that I just throw on the floor in case the stink bomb is not enough he he he....

06-24-2010, 02:32 PM	#46
kacansas03 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Photos: Albums Posts: 650	But I can agree with most all the views listed here. But there is another option. Save up your dollars and buy that seemingly clumsy huge long lens. Then buy what it takes to support it. Then find a spot that overlooks where everyone else is gathered. Set it up there and with the longer focal length you still get the photograph as Your photo not theirs. I ran into this same problem trying to photograph eagles around Lake Pepin in southern MN. The above was my solution but another part of it was a strong monopod with tilt head that can support my 300 or 400 and then a TC between 1.4 and 1.7 behind the lens if it is a bright day. I also go when others don't have the time such as weekdays. All of it has helped me avoid the crowds which gets eagles closer to the lone human. I think that there are always ways to get around the crush of people problem, arrive early(big one), pick a similar spot that most will not find, go a different time or day and probably many more. One just has to wish to try to work the problem.

07-09-2010, 06:13 AM	#56
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Originally posted by jpzk I have an idea: get a large bean meal with beer the night before! JP Or just take a sack o' rats with you next time...... and for maximum effect, add a bag 'o cats! Last edited by ivoire; 07-09-2010 at 07:26 AM.

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06-30-2010, 07:37 PM	#47
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by iFoto you should go there on a rainy day and you are gone have the whole spot for yourself most canikons do not like rain at all - i found out or get a pentax 600 - it makes all other 600 looking like a still-growing-version https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/86756-real-size-f*-600mm-4-a.html 600mm too .. too much $$$ for me! ... and it's bigger than me! Yeas, rainy days can really be great days; birds do feed regardless. JP

06-30-2010, 07:38 PM	#48
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by mysticcowboy I understand your frustration and I've been on the other side of the equation, too. I'm not a hardcore nature photographer but have friends who are and have listened to them often enough to understand their point of view. And I've been taken advantage of when moving out of my carefully chosen spot. Look at it like this: If I stand in line for concert tickets, I'm not going to take less desirable seats because someone else came late and feels left out. You make the effort to get to someplace early. You carefully choose your spot. Then people casually show up later and want to move you. I've said yes often enough to realize that as often as not, they will actually set up in front and ruin your field of view. Now that's really annoying, doing someone a favor just to have them ruin your shots. Serious nature photographers get out into the field early, often before dawn. If it's a public viewing area that means waiting at the gate for it to open. It's not a matter of big lenses or big name cameras. It's respecting those who are just as serious. They consider those who arrive late and come and go as annoyances, which they are. Therefore, as Plato pointed out, thou shall arise afore the end of the sunrise. JP

06-30-2010, 08:20 PM	#49
Transit Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Whanganui NZ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,624	Originally posted by jpzk no chance: nobody moves even half an inch. JP one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away' Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ? An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library Pete

07-02-2010, 05:39 AM	#50
pentaxmz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Seattle Posts: 659	Originally posted by jpzk One morning this week: perfect weather for a planned outing to the National Park about one hour away from my place. The plan: get to the park observatory where one can admire/photograph the several species of birds of prey coming in the St Lawrence River valley during Spring migration. (eagles, hawks, etc...) After a short drive off the main highway, you get to the parking area: full! Nowhere to park the car! Gotta back up and find a spot. Gotta walk up to the observatory now. I take by beloved Pentax gear out: tripod, K7, K20D, and of course my DA*300/4 with a 1.7X Pentax adapter ... that should be enough to get me some half decent shots of the flying birds. Gotta find a spot to install my stuff now ... of course, there are at least 12 to 15 photographers and a bunch more of people with fancy ornithology "surveillance equipment" already in place, at the best spots. No way to get close to the edge of the cliff (which is fenced for security reasons) because of that. I set up my gear ... behind everyone, try to get a little closer so at least I can see some of the scenery ... no chance: nobody moves even half an inch. Among monster-size white Canon and Nikon lenses, gimball heads and huge Swarovski "digiscopes", my attempts to get closer are futile. One very "nice" lady asked me what sort/brand of camera I had; she had this puzzled look on her face as if my photo gear was some sort of "whatever". "Pentax" I said. "Oh!" she said, and turned back to her observing business. I even gently asked if I could "squeeze in" ... no dice! Would you believe that? "We are already quite squeezed" someone tells me. "I'll wait until someone leaves, that's OK", I said. "You might have to wait all day", another fellow answers. OK, ... I'm going back home. This is it! No more of this! Drove back home; one hour drive again and pissed off. No pictures either. I feel good now that I have vented my frustration. JP I am assuming that it is a public observatory, built with public dollars, therefore you are entitled to access just as much as any other citizen. I think the problem is that everyone should be alloted a reasonable time limit and others should respect this. I would contact the parks board about this (or join the board). Just because someone has 'superior equipment' it doesn't mean they are automatically entitled to their spot for the entire day. What they did was clearly rude!

07-08-2010, 06:55 PM	#51
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by Transit one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away' Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ? An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library Pete I have an idea: get a large bean meal with beer the night before! JP

07-08-2010, 11:25 PM	#53
siva.ss.kumar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chennai, India Photos: Albums Posts: 534	Originally posted by Mr Hyde I totally feel for you (and everyone else) when it comes to dealing with rude people. I tend to cut non photographers a little more slack since they probably just dont understand or may not notice. But when a photographer is rude to another photographer it really burns my butt. I was attending a reinactment of the battle of Monmouth in NJ. A rank of soldiers were getting to fire a volley. I had taken care to position myself behind all the people who were there before me. Most were not taking photos but were just sitting on the ground and on lawn chairs watching. I was standing behind them with my camera and attached Bigma on a monopod. I saw the officer just about to give the order to fire. I focused and just as I was taking the shot, Mr Canon White lens jumped in front of me so I got a nice shot of his back. I probably should have let it go but I didnt. He moved to another spot and sat down in front of some family who was there before him. I walked over and stuck my monopod right in front of his lens. we had a few words... then he moved on. Yeah. Now this is called the 'Camera Wars' The following happened to me. Some of us were photographing birds (monthly affair) and one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear Of course, I didn't even what he was saying and kept shooting

07-09-2010, 01:43 AM	#54
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Originally posted by siva.ss.kumar one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear hilarious

07-09-2010, 03:52 AM	#55
siva.ss.kumar Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Chennai, India Photos: Albums Posts: 534	Originally posted by simico hilarious Oh. I should have added that the Canon guy was even more embarrassed at this And that this was before I had my 'Bigma'. Now, I get more respect

07-09-2010, 12:34 PM	#57
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mr Hyde I totally feel for you (and everyone else) when it comes to dealing with rude people. I tend to cut non photographers a little more slack since they probably just dont understand or may not notice. But when a photographer is rude to another photographer it really burns my butt. I was attending a reinactment of the battle of Monmouth in NJ. A rank of soldiers were getting to fire a volley. I had taken care to position myself behind all the people who were there before me. Most were not taking photos but were just sitting on the ground and on lawn chairs watching. I was standing behind them with my camera and attached Bigma on a monopod. I saw the officer just about to give the order to fire. I focused and just as I was taking the shot, Mr Canon White lens jumped in front of me so I got a nice shot of his back. I probably should have let it go but I didnt. He moved to another spot and sat down in front of some family who was there before him. I walked over and stuck my monopod right in front of his lens. we had a few words... then he moved on. Now, that was rude! Looks like Mr Big White was taking all the space for himself too! I agree with your response and I would have done the same thing ... if the guy had been a tad smaller ! ... with my short stature, I wouldn't even dare doing it for fear of facing an ogre of some sort. Nevertheless, congrats on your timely response to this man's arrogance. Cheers! JP

07-09-2010, 12:35 PM	#58
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by siva.ss.kumar Yeah. Now this is called the 'Camera Wars' The following happened to me. Some of us were photographing birds (monthly affair) and one guy (he was not photographing) prompted me to give my place to a Canon user as he had better gear Of course, I didn't even what he was saying and kept shooting Would be interesting to see what kind of better pictures this fellow ended up with with his supposedly better gear! JP

07-09-2010, 12:36 PM	#59
jpzk Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Québec Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,251 Original Poster	Originally posted by ivoire Or just take a sack o' rats with you next time...... and for maximum effect, add a bag 'o cats! I suppose this could be arranged! JP

07-11-2010, 02:04 AM	#60
k54 Forum Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 77	Originally posted by Transit one of the famous Sitwells used to get a seat on the underground by announcing loudly they had syphilis and was 'eaten away' Maybe scratching vigorously or developing severe flatulence might move the Canikons aside ? An acquaintance of mine seldom bathes and always gets his own table at the library Pete There is a small capsule called "stink bomb" that I buy at fun houses or fun stores. I use it and throw on the floor to disperse unwanted, unruly, or uncooperative crowd. I also bring Chinese firecrackers that I just throw on the floor in case the stink bomb is not enough he he he....