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04-21-2010, 09:59 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
We humans are amazing thing.
As Marc says, a camera easily outperforms the human eye.

E.g., look at my photo showing reflected light on the ocean illuminated by Jupiter, shot with a K-x -> https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/1008233-post94.html

This was completely invisible to the naked eye!


If the eye is forbidden to change aperture or adapt ISO (via a chemical adaptation), then its dynamic range is less than in a single photo.

Also, in pure starlight, you may still see something, but this something is so little that its SNR has fallen below 1 meaning DxO wouldn't count it anymore In pure starlight, vision is so restricted that most people would not find their step except on a flat street.

04-22-2010, 04:09 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
While this is true, it's also not really relevant to the discussion - there are few scenes that encompass this whole range *at once*. Our eyes handle this range essentially the same way our cameras do - by opening up the aperture (pupil) to let more light in when dealing with lower light levels, and also by doing the equivalent of raising the ISO (both in which receptors get used, and also in our processing of the signal).

I agree that the emphasis on DR is overstated. I'm not saying it has *no* relevance, just that it isn't that important that often. Sure, manufacturers strive to get this as high as they reasonably can, to handle the situations where it *does* matter. In a sense, it's much like the megapixel race.

well that was just a trivia and not meant to be part of argument. Human eye can not see all this in just one fix so kinda not what we are discussing.

Anyway DR i think (subjective) is much more important aspect than MP.

While for some 7 stops DR is good enough, i would like my camera to pull out details from shadow areas when i wish.

Those who are using kx are specially happy with this aspect and i do remember reading complains about k7 for limited DR.

For me '7 stops is all that is needed' statement falls in same category as:

- 6 mp is all that is needed. (canon etc)
- 12 mp is all that is needed (nikon).
- liveview is for point and shoot shooters.
- real pro do not use auto focus etc.

All the time there is someone telling others what is good enough for everyone. Which is irritating.

PS: Some company did research about mobile phones and concluded people do not want one even if given free. (this is trivia).
04-22-2010, 01:30 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
While for some 7 stops DR is good enough, i would like my camera to pull out details from shadow areas when i wish.
I agree it's great for a camera to capture more than the eye can see so you have flexibility in terms of being able to bring out details in shadows and so forth without resorting to multi-shot composites (HDR, etc). The question is, how *much* more DR does a camera really need to be able to record? So far, I've yet to see a DSLR that doesn't record more than is normally needed even when artificially bringing out shadow detail. Of course, *noise levels* in those darkest stops are an issue.

Anyhow, not to say that there arne't certain rare people who have certain rare needs that one given camera might not meet but another might. Sure, that can happen. I'm not saying DR is overemphasized *for those people, in those situations*. I'm saying that as a general metric for the typical person, it just doesn't really come into play, since all DSLR's cameras already will meet their needs. For the rare few who totally understand why they might be in the unusual position of needing more DR than a given camera, I'm glad that camera makers do push this, and stats exist to measure it. But most people can safely ignore that when looking at a spec sheet.
04-22-2010, 03:51 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Anyhow, not to say that there arne't certain rare people who have certain rare needs that one given camera might not meet but another might. Sure, that can happen. I'm not saying DR is overemphasized *for those people, in those situations*. I'm saying that as a general metric for the typical person, it just doesn't really come into play, since all DSLR's cameras already will meet their needs. For the rare few who totally understand why they might be in the unusual position of needing more DR than a given camera, I'm glad that camera makers do push this, and stats exist to measure it. But most people can safely ignore that when looking at a spec sheet.
And the vast majority of today's DSLR owners would likely produce much the same output with a capable P&S.

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