Manual focus issue with K10D

**Tall Guy** · 04-19-2010, 06:55 AM

I have used my Super Tak 50 1.4mm with my K10 many times in the past, but I recently had to do a firmware BF adjustment (V 1.30). The BF issue was solved using my F and DA series lenses. But I finally had the chance to get out with my Taks to do some "manual" shooting. ( I use the PENTAX adapter).
The results were far from acceptable with many shots out of focus on the focal points (Looks like BF in manual focus mode??).
If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode.
If this post should be in another forum, please advise.

Thanks

Marc Sabatella · 04-19-2010, 08:22 AM

Due to the design of modern DSLR focus screens, the viewfinder shows you too deep a DOF at f/1.4 - that is, there are things that are in focus in the viewfinder that won't be in the picture. So until you learn to recognize which part of the apparently-in-focus zone in the viewfinder will actually be in focus in the shot, focusing large apertures with the stock focus screen can be very tricky. I recommend practice using text on an angle, paying attention to which lines appear in focus in the viewfinder versus which turn out to actually be in focus. With practic, you can learn to anticipate the shift.

Many, however, simply replace the stock screen with a third party split prism screen.

Tuner571 · 04-19-2010, 09:29 AM

Yea, as Mark said I would look into investing some money into a split prism screen for your camera. One that is mentioned here alot is the Katseye focusing screen. It is set up just like the focusing screen in an older SLR so that your manual focus shots are in good focus.

**Lowell Goudge** · 04-19-2010, 09:31 AM

I have no issue at all with focus of my fast lenses on the K10D. I use regularly 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 lenses as well as a 135 F2.5. BUT I have installed a jinfinance diagonal split image vocusing screen. As marc says the DOF of fast lenses is so shallow, and the apparent DOF of the optical viewscreen so misleading, it is tough without the split image to get accurate focus.

I also find this to be true with fast Wide angle lenses because the DOF of the lens is so high, accurate focus is tough. Again the split image is a big help.

**Tall Guy** · 04-19-2010, 07:18 PM

Thank you for all 3 replys, the information is appreciated and I will definately look intio the focusing screen issue.
I am still cannot figure why I was not having these focusing issues before using the same equipment.
I did some shooting today using some of my DA lens, in full manual mode, and everything was fine. So ??

Thanks

Marc Sabatella · 04-20-2010, 12:52 PM

As I said, since the viewfinder shows more in focus than actully is, it's kind of luck of the draw whether the thing you care about will happen to be in the part that is in focus for real or the part that isn't. That is, sometimes you'll happen to get your subject in focus for real, sometimes you won't. That's normal until you learn to recognize and anticipate which parts of the apparently-in-focus zone are *really* in focus (for me on my camera, it's the frontmost portion of that zone).

**Tall Guy** · 04-21-2010, 03:26 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

As I said, since the viewfinder shows more in focus than actully is, it's kind of luck of the draw whether the thing you care about will happen to be in the part that is in focus for real or the part that isn't. That is, sometimes you'll happen to get your subject in focus for real, sometimes you won't. That's normal until you learn to recognize and anticipate which parts of the apparently-in-focus zone are *really* in focus (for me on my camera, it's the frontmost portion of that zone).

Marc

I will definately "focus" in on your recommendations. So I can assume that you figure that this is everything to do with the screen, and not anything to do with adjusting the auto focus in the fimware (V 1.30)?

Thanks again.

wildlifephotog · 04-21-2010, 04:16 AM

Adjusting the AF has no effect on manual focus. Manual is totally dependent on your eye, nothing else. A good split screen would make it easier.

Marc Sabatella · 04-21-2010, 09:28 AM

Correct. The only thing that *could* be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned. To see if this is true, you'd have to do the sort of tests I described. It's *normal* that the viewfinder would show more in focus thn the picture - but everything in focus in the picture should be in focus in the viewfinder. If you find things are in focus in the picture that were *not* in focus in the viewfinder, that would mean the focus screen is not positioned properly. You could try removing it and reseating it, maybe adding shims if necessary. But there' very very very little chance this is the case, so don't even think about messing with until you've actually performed the test.

Kenn100D · 04-21-2010, 03:37 PM

You might want to try Katzeye focusing screen. Very good focusing screen using manual lenses.

MSM · 04-21-2010, 03:51 PM

Originally posted by Tall Guy

I have used my Super Tak 50 1.4mm with my K10 many times in the past, but I recently had to do a firmware BF adjustment (V 1.30). The BF issue was solved using my F and DA series lenses. But I finally had the chance to get out with my Taks to do some "manual" shooting. ( I use the PENTAX adapter).
The results were far from acceptable with many shots out of focus on the focal points (Looks like BF in manual focus mode??).
If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode.
If this post should be in another forum, please advise.

Thanks

Originally posted by wildlifephotog

Adjusting the AF has no effect on manual focus. Manual is totally dependent on your eye, nothing else. A good split screen would make it easier.

Tall guy: I may have misunderstood your post. If you adjusted your K10D for the benefit of the AF lenses you listed then you very well affected the focus of the Tak as well.

Although wildlifephotographer is right that AF doesn't come into play and that you have to use your eyes, it does make a difference with when you see the green hexagon and even when the red center indicator lights up. If you rely on those or the focus trap method, you will get blurred shots.

I have a k10d with a katz eye prism and the lenses listed below. I went thru each and made an adjustment so that the focus indicator lights when the prism is perfectly aligned. I then made a list on paper and placed in in the side hatch where you connect the computer cable, etc. I keep my camera in the debug mode to quickly adjust the focus for each lens, including the manual focus lenses. Trust me it does make a difference. When you use a split prism, it is easy to see when the focus indicator is off. Ignoring the prism, the image looks fairly sharp due to the DOF issues Marc outlined.

Hope this helps,

Mark

**Tall Guy** · 04-21-2010, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

Correct. The only thing that *could* be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned. To see if this is true, you'd have to do the sort of tests I described. It's *normal* that the viewfinder would show more in focus thn the picture - but everything in focus in the picture should be in focus in the viewfinder. If you find things are in focus in the picture that were *not* in focus in the viewfinder, that would mean the focus screen is not positioned properly. You could try removing it and reseating it, maybe adding shims if necessary. But there' very very very little chance this is the case, so don't even think about messing with until you've actually performed the test.

Marc
Sorry for not reponding sooner, and thanks for your valued input. I will perform the tests you recommended and I will be definately be looking into purcahsing a split screen. I did check the focus screen that is currently "on board" and it seems to be seated fine.
There have been a couple of responses since, one with a different view, but first things first.

Thanks again.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 04-21-2010, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

The only thing that *could* be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned.

Or the mirror.

Originally posted by Tall Guy

If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode.

It's strange that you could focus before, but not now. Other than a focusing screen, you might also want to try the Pentax O-ME53 magnifier loupe. It's what I use for manual focusing and I find it very helpful.

**Tall Guy** · 04-22-2010, 03:43 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Or the mirror.

It's strange that you could focus before, but not now. Other than a focusing screen, you might also want to try the Pentax O-ME53 magnifier loupe. It's what I use for manual focusing and I find it very helpful.

Laurentiu

I have tested both manual and auoto focus with my DA lens and there is no "visual" difference through the viewfinder, and I have always used theO-ME53 magnifier.

Thanks for your input.

Marc Sabatella · 04-22-2010, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

It's strange that you could focus before, but not now.

Such is the nature of random chance. It's like tossing coin and hoping for heads. Some people might get lucky and see it come up heads the first few times they toss the coin, but inevitably, they'll start seeing tails too. Same here. It's *always* - repeat *always* - a crap shoot due to the design of the focus screen as I explained. But sometimes you do get lucky enough for a while that you don't notice there is an issue. Took me a couple of years myself. Not that I had perfect success those first two years, but I blamed myself for any failures, and didn't start becoming aware that the camera was actually fighting me until much later.

04-19-2010, 06:55 AM	#1
Tall Guy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manilla, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 96	Manual focus issue with K10D I have used my Super Tak 50 1.4mm with my K10 many times in the past, but I recently had to do a firmware BF adjustment (V 1.30). The BF issue was solved using my F and DA series lenses. But I finally had the chance to get out with my Taks to do some "manual" shooting. ( I use the PENTAX adapter). The results were far from acceptable with many shots out of focus on the focal points (Looks like BF in manual focus mode??). If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode. If this post should be in another forum, please advise. Thanks

04-19-2010, 07:18 PM	#5
Tall Guy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manilla, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 96 Original Poster	Thanks Thank you for all 3 replys, the information is appreciated and I will definately look intio the focusing screen issue. I am still cannot figure why I was not having these focusing issues before using the same equipment. I did some shooting today using some of my DA lens, in full manual mode, and everything was fine. So ?? Thanks

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04-19-2010, 08:22 AM	#2
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Due to the design of modern DSLR focus screens, the viewfinder shows you too deep a DOF at f/1.4 - that is, there are things that are in focus in the viewfinder that won't be in the picture. So until you learn to recognize which part of the apparently-in-focus zone in the viewfinder will actually be in focus in the shot, focusing large apertures with the stock focus screen can be very tricky. I recommend practice using text on an angle, paying attention to which lines appear in focus in the viewfinder versus which turn out to actually be in focus. With practic, you can learn to anticipate the shift. Many, however, simply replace the stock screen with a third party split prism screen.

04-19-2010, 09:29 AM	#3
Tuner571 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Ohio Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,549	Yea, as Mark said I would look into investing some money into a split prism screen for your camera. One that is mentioned here alot is the Katseye focusing screen. It is set up just like the focusing screen in an older SLR so that your manual focus shots are in good focus.

04-19-2010, 09:31 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,891	I have no issue at all with focus of my fast lenses on the K10D. I use regularly 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 lenses as well as a 135 F2.5. BUT I have installed a jinfinance diagonal split image vocusing screen. As marc says the DOF of fast lenses is so shallow, and the apparent DOF of the optical viewscreen so misleading, it is tough without the split image to get accurate focus. I also find this to be true with fast Wide angle lenses because the DOF of the lens is so high, accurate focus is tough. Again the split image is a big help.

04-20-2010, 12:52 PM	#6
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	As I said, since the viewfinder shows more in focus than actully is, it's kind of luck of the draw whether the thing you care about will happen to be in the part that is in focus for real or the part that isn't. That is, sometimes you'll happen to get your subject in focus for real, sometimes you won't. That's normal until you learn to recognize and anticipate which parts of the apparently-in-focus zone are really in focus (for me on my camera, it's the frontmost portion of that zone).

04-21-2010, 03:26 AM	#7
Tall Guy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manilla, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 96 Original Poster	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella As I said, since the viewfinder shows more in focus than actully is, it's kind of luck of the draw whether the thing you care about will happen to be in the part that is in focus for real or the part that isn't. That is, sometimes you'll happen to get your subject in focus for real, sometimes you won't. That's normal until you learn to recognize and anticipate which parts of the apparently-in-focus zone are really in focus (for me on my camera, it's the frontmost portion of that zone). Marc I will definately "focus" in on your recommendations. So I can assume that you figure that this is everything to do with the screen, and not anything to do with adjusting the auto focus in the fimware (V 1.30)? Thanks again.

04-21-2010, 04:16 AM	#8
wildlifephotog Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: USA Posts: 924	Adjusting the AF has no effect on manual focus. Manual is totally dependent on your eye, nothing else. A good split screen would make it easier.

04-21-2010, 09:28 AM	#9
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Correct. The only thing that could be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned. To see if this is true, you'd have to do the sort of tests I described. It's normal that the viewfinder would show more in focus thn the picture - but everything in focus in the picture should be in focus in the viewfinder. If you find things are in focus in the picture that were not in focus in the viewfinder, that would mean the focus screen is not positioned properly. You could try removing it and reseating it, maybe adding shims if necessary. But there' very very very little chance this is the case, so don't even think about messing with until you've actually performed the test.

04-21-2010, 03:37 PM	#10
Kenn100D Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Paranaque City, Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 697	You might want to try Katzeye focusing screen. Very good focusing screen using manual lenses.

04-21-2010, 03:51 PM	#11
MSM Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 994	Originally posted by Tall Guy I have used my Super Tak 50 1.4mm with my K10 many times in the past, but I recently had to do a firmware BF adjustment (V 1.30). The BF issue was solved using my F and DA series lenses. But I finally had the chance to get out with my Taks to do some "manual" shooting. ( I use the PENTAX adapter). The results were far from acceptable with many shots out of focus on the focal points (Looks like BF in manual focus mode??). If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode. If this post should be in another forum, please advise. Thanks Originally posted by wildlifephotog Adjusting the AF has no effect on manual focus. Manual is totally dependent on your eye, nothing else. A good split screen would make it easier. Tall guy: I may have misunderstood your post. If you adjusted your K10D for the benefit of the AF lenses you listed then you very well affected the focus of the Tak as well. Although wildlifephotographer is right that AF doesn't come into play and that you have to use your eyes, it does make a difference with when you see the green hexagon and even when the red center indicator lights up. If you rely on those or the focus trap method, you will get blurred shots. I have a k10d with a katz eye prism and the lenses listed below. I went thru each and made an adjustment so that the focus indicator lights when the prism is perfectly aligned. I then made a list on paper and placed in in the side hatch where you connect the computer cable, etc. I keep my camera in the debug mode to quickly adjust the focus for each lens, including the manual focus lenses. Trust me it does make a difference. When you use a split prism, it is easy to see when the focus indicator is off. Ignoring the prism, the image looks fairly sharp due to the DOF issues Marc outlined. Hope this helps, Mark

04-21-2010, 07:22 PM	#12
Tall Guy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manilla, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 96 Original Poster	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella Correct. The only thing that could be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned. To see if this is true, you'd have to do the sort of tests I described. It's normal that the viewfinder would show more in focus thn the picture - but everything in focus in the picture should be in focus in the viewfinder. If you find things are in focus in the picture that were not in focus in the viewfinder, that would mean the focus screen is not positioned properly. You could try removing it and reseating it, maybe adding shims if necessary. But there' very very very little chance this is the case, so don't even think about messing with until you've actually performed the test. Marc Sorry for not reponding sooner, and thanks for your valued input. I will perform the tests you recommended and I will be definately be looking into purcahsing a split screen. I did check the focus screen that is currently "on board" and it seems to be seated fine. There have been a couple of responses since, one with a different view, but first things first. Thanks again.

04-21-2010, 09:36 PM	#13
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella The only thing that could be off in the camera is the focus screen might be improperly positioned. Or the mirror. Originally posted by Tall Guy If any one can weigh in on this problem, I would really appreciate it. I am a little baffled as to why a focusing issue would arise when focusing manually, and in manual program mode. It's strange that you could focus before, but not now. Other than a focusing screen, you might also want to try the Pentax O-ME53 magnifier loupe. It's what I use for manual focusing and I find it very helpful.

04-22-2010, 03:43 AM	#14
Tall Guy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manilla, Ontario Photos: Gallery Posts: 96 Original Poster	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Or the mirror. It's strange that you could focus before, but not now. Other than a focusing screen, you might also want to try the Pentax O-ME53 magnifier loupe. It's what I use for manual focusing and I find it very helpful. Laurentiu I have tested both manual and auoto focus with my DA lens and there is no "visual" difference through the viewfinder, and I have always used theO-ME53 magnifier. Thanks for your input.

04-22-2010, 01:34 PM	#15
Marc Sabatella Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Denver, CO Photos: Gallery Posts: 10,685	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor It's strange that you could focus before, but not now. Such is the nature of random chance. It's like tossing coin and hoping for heads. Some people might get lucky and see it come up heads the first few times they toss the coin, but inevitably, they'll start seeing tails too. Same here. It's always - repeat always - a crap shoot due to the design of the focus screen as I explained. But sometimes you do get lucky enough for a while that you don't notice there is an issue. Took me a couple of years myself. Not that I had perfect success those first two years, but I blamed myself for any failures, and didn't start becoming aware that the camera was actually fighting me until much later.