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07-23-2007, 03:49 AM   #1
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EV comensation in M mode

Is there a way to set exposure compensation in manual mode (K100D)? I have a focusing screen, but I can't use it because pictures get underexposed 1-2 steps. In Av mode it wouldn't be a problem, but with M lenses in M mode I have to turn dial to compensate exposure. It's imposible to remember about turning every time after pushing AE-L button and it makes shooting much slower. I could use a bracketing, but thus I lose continuous and other shooting modes.
I looked in k100d's debug mode, bet even there I could not find how to calibrate EV. What would You suggest? I've read that many pentaxians use focussing screens without any problems.


Last edited by skaktuss; 07-23-2007 at 04:09 AM.
07-23-2007, 05:00 AM   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Is there a way to set exposure compensation in manual mode (K100D)?
Simple answer: no.

What screen do you have?
Normally the older the darker.
I use an MZ-M screen which needs an EV comp. of about -0.5.
07-23-2007, 06:21 AM   #3
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In M mode you're the one who's deciding for the exposure. So asking for the camera to do the EV compensation for you is a bit "stupid" .

If your photos are underexposed by 0.5 stops then: either decrease the aperture by 0.5 stops or increase the shutter speed by 0.5 stop.

aperture full stops are: 1.4 - 2 - 2.8- 4 - 5.6 - 8 - 11 - 16 - 22 - 32 ect. Finding the half stop difference is a bit difficult, but most old lenses will have their aperture ring in half stop settings.

Shutter - a full stop over exposure or under exposure is halving or doubling the shutter speed. I.e. if you're shooting at 1/100s at f/5.6, if you need to overexpose by 1 stop then you need to soot at 1/50s at f/5.6. If you want to underexpose by 1 stop then you need to shoot at 1/200s at f/5.6/. If you want to shoot at +0.5 stop then 1/75s at f/5.6.

Hope you'll understand. It's the same as saying why my manual gear shift won't automatically up shift or down shift. It can't .
07-23-2007, 06:27 AM   #4
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Aperture in half stops increments would be: f/1.4 - 1.7 - 2 - 2.4 - 2.8 - 3.4 - 4 - 4.8 - 5.6 - 6.8 - 8 - 9.5 - 11 - 13.5 - 16 - 19 - 22 ect

07-23-2007, 06:31 AM   #5
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To be fair to the original poster, he is only requesting a "compensation" because he gets consistently under-exposed images with manual lenses.

What you say makes perfect sense of course....manual exposure is manual exposure... no need for a "compensation". This I agree with. But the OP is using the IF button to get the camera to assign a metered shutter speed, and he wants to be able to "compensate" that assigned speed, rather than adjust it each time after he has pressed the IF button.

So while what you write is correct, what he is asking for is also very reasonable although not possible.
07-23-2007, 09:03 AM   #6
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skaktuss, I'm just guessing that your shooting with this lens in M because there isn't an A setting on it and your camera won't work in any other mode with it on.

If I'm guessing right there is a setting on the camera you can do which will allow you to use this same lens in any mode.

press Menu
move over to C
Then down to Use Aperture ring.
You want this setting to be on #2

It won't effect the camera in any other way, but you'll be able to use fully manual lenses on any camera mode
07-23-2007, 09:11 AM   #7
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He most definetly set the "Use Aperture Ring" on his camera. The problem is that the stopdown metering in M-mode tends to be off. Also, you can't "use this same lens in any mode", even with setting this custom setting. In Av mode, the camera will meter AND shoot with the lens WIDE open, regardless of the f-stop set on the lens. You HAVE to use M-mode to meter and shoot at any aperture.

QuoteOriginally posted by little laker Quote
skaktuss, I'm just guessing that your shooting with this lens in M because there isn't an A setting on it and your camera won't work in any other mode with it on.

If I'm guessing right there is a setting on the camera you can do which will allow you to use this same lens in any mode.

press Menu
move over to C
Then down to Use Aperture ring.
You want this setting to be on #2

It won't effect the camera in any other way, but you'll be able to use fully manual lenses on any camera mode
07-23-2007, 02:02 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
To be fair to the original poster, he is only requesting a "compensation" because he gets consistently under-exposed images with manual lenses.

What you say makes perfect sense of course....manual exposure is manual exposure... no need for a "compensation". This I agree with. But the OP is using the IF button to get the camera to assign a metered shutter speed, and he wants to be able to "compensate" that assigned speed, rather than adjust it each time after he has pressed the IF button.

So while what you write is correct, what he is asking for is also very reasonable although not possible.
Yup. It's just bad wording. He's talking about exposure compensation in what Pentax calls in the documentation "hypermanual" mode - Dial is set to M but press a button to take a meter reading and set the shutter for a given aperture.

Sadly there is no way to set exposure compensation for "hypermanual" metering. It's annoying as heck to always have to dial in the correction every time you hit the green button (AE-L on K100D? I have a K10D, which uses the green button), as opposed to dialing in some EC in advance and having that number taken into account when the green button is pressed.

07-23-2007, 05:33 PM   #9
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It would have been a great help if when you pushed the green button it turned on the meter in the viewfinder, then you could see how much over or under you dial in for that exposure. I can't understand why they didn't do this.

I know it wouldn't work for the aperture but they could have connected it to the shutter.
07-23-2007, 07:19 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Entropy Quote
Yup. It's just bad wording. He's talking about exposure compensation in what Pentax calls in the documentation "hypermanual" mode - Dial is set to M but press a button to take a meter reading and set the shutter for a given aperture.

Sadly there is no way to set exposure compensation for "hypermanual" metering. It's annoying as heck to always have to dial in the correction every time you hit the green button (AE-L on K100D? I have a K10D, which uses the green button), as opposed to dialing in some EC in advance and having that number taken into account when the green button is pressed.
Yes, it is quite a bother to do that. But looking on the bright side, at least there's even an approximation given by the camera's meter and is off by only a few stops. As far as I know, only the Pentax gives that on both their amateur and pro DSLRs (yes, in my mind, the K10D warrants the pro tag). For Nikon, you'd have to go to the D200 and above for manual lens metering. The Canon has zero support for their FD mount (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

No, I'm not being an apologist for Pentax and being able to set a default compensation in the camera's metering is something I would like to have, but I'm also thankful that there's even support for old lenses and metering. That really saved me some cash from not having to buy new and expensive lenses.
07-23-2007, 10:15 PM   #11
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It's a complicated issue..

QuoteOriginally posted by skaktuss Quote
Is there a way to set exposure compensation in manual mode (K100D)? I have a focusing screen, but I can't use it because pictures get underexposed 1-2 steps. In Av mode it wouldn't be a problem, but with M lenses in M mode I have to turn dial to compensate exposure. It's imposible to remember about turning every time after pushing AE-L button and it makes shooting much slower. I could use a bracketing, but thus I lose continuous and other shooting modes.
I looked in k100d's debug mode, bet even there I could not find how to calibrate EV. What would You suggest? I've read that many pentaxians use focussing screens without any problems.
This is a complicated issue, and is mainly concerned with the hardware more than the software.

If metering in Av mode is okay, which means in MF mode, the metering will also be the same when it is *wide opened* (try that!). As you start to stop down and do stop down metering, more underexposure will result from what you describe.

It is a hardware issue of mis-match of the focusing screen and the calibration of the light meter has not been properly made for smaller aperture stopped down metering. See:-

RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: When the Focusing Screen Lies (for Focusing and Metering)

So, even if there is a function of EV compensation in M mode (there is none as in M mode the EV button has no function), you have to vary the amount of +/- EV compensation according to the f-number set. All in all, this is very impractical and in fact you don't know what is the correct amount to be entered, too.

And, as to your problem, there is actually no solution, unless you can find a matching focusing screen with your K100D. My experience is that the original one on K100D is the most accurate combo amongst all Pentax DSLRs I have used for stopped down metering - D and DS always underexposed more when stopped down and the K10D usually overexposes when stopped down.
07-23-2007, 10:27 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Entropy Quote
Yup. It's just bad wording. He's talking about exposure compensation in what Pentax calls in the documentation "hypermanual" mode - Dial is set to M but press a button to take a meter reading and set the shutter for a given aperture.

Sadly there is no way to set exposure compensation for "hypermanual" metering. It's annoying as heck to always have to dial in the correction every time you hit the green button (AE-L on K100D? I have a K10D, which uses the green button), as opposed to dialing in some EC in advance and having that number taken into account when the green button is pressed.
exactly, thats what I'm talking about. Deni and Little Laker, I know everything about using manual (without A) lenses, coz I use them 99% of the time.
I guess the only way to compensate exposure is bracketing. I set sequence + 0 - with step 1EV, so when I push and quickly release shutter button, I get one normal picture with +1 EV. But as I mentioned, that way I lose other shooting modes and have to set to bracketing every time after turning camera on.
07-23-2007, 10:36 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
If metering in Av mode is okay, which means in MF mode, the metering will also be the same when it is *wide opened* (try that!). As you start to stop down and do stop down metering, more underexposure will result from what you describe.
no, no. I meant that in Av mode it's ok only because I can set EV compensation that stays all the time, even after turning camera off. But without +1EV it's underexposed just like in M mode. So it's not a hardware problem, but EV calibrating problem. I was hoping that I could calibrate it in debug mode, like I did with my front focus problem, but there is no such a possibility.
07-24-2007, 01:38 AM   #14
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I was able to solve this very problem with my K10D by swapping the focus screen for a DS one. I dont know if experimenting with a different focus screen might help you with the K100D.

As an alternative try this: Can you turn the meter on in manual mode by using the DOF preview ? If so you could set exposure by turning DOF switch to turn the meter on, and then turn the aperture or shutter speed until you see the meter read -2ev (or whatever compensation you need). This way you are going straight to correct (?) exposure without using the green (or IF) button.

This method will really be only useful if you get consistent over or under exposure.
07-24-2007, 02:13 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
As an alternative try this: Can you turn the meter on in manual mode by using the DOF preview ? If so you could set exposure by turning DOF switch to turn the meter on, and then turn the aperture or shutter speed until you see the meter read -2ev (or whatever compensation you need). This way you are going straight to correct (?) exposure without using the green (or IF) button.

This method will really be only useful if you get consistent over or under exposure.

As far as I understand skaktuss wants the camera to do this automatically. I.e. if the camera meters the scene at 1/100s f/5.6 and he had set for +1 ev then the camera would automatically select 1/50s f/5.6 thus overexposing by +1 stop.
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