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04-26-2010, 04:13 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
What does a youtube movie proof??? Nothing!
I wonder if that test was done right.
How much is there to do right or wrong? Focus on a high-contrast target and push the button, like it says in the video description.

QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
You cannot see the focus target etc..
We can't see the focus target in your video either.

QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
My K-7 focuses a lot faster...
Again, as I mentioned, you will not see a significant difference in focus speed for light levels above EV6. Above EV6, most DSLR's from all brands are essentially equal in AF speed. Below that, SAFOX starts to really slow down. You don't list the EV level for your test. Do you know what it was? The other video clearly lists that, and shows the exposure settings to confirm it. I suspect your room was brighter, thus you are testing at a light level where you should see little difference.

QuoteOriginally posted by bymy141 Quote
I've just done my own small unscientific test.
That's the one thing you wrote I agree with.


Last edited by PentaxPoke; 04-26-2010 at 04:24 PM.
04-26-2010, 04:22 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote

So, because you owned a K7 before the 7D, I wanted to ask whether you did some wildlife shots and, if so, how much "better" is your keeper rate when comparing both brands?
Cheers.

JP
I must honestly say my keeper rate is considerably better with the 7D. I do some BIF, but more than that, I do a LOT of small scale unmanned aircraft pics during flight tests. It is very similar to doing BIF wildlife shots. For static shots, I really never complained about the k-7 keeper rate. The focus accuracy was fine, and in good light, the AF speed was acceptably fast.

My keeper rate with the k-7 though was better than my k20d so it is definitely was an improvement. Oddly enough, my worst keeper rate with the K-7 came when using the painfully slow DA* 50-135. Heck, that combination had trouble tracking my son during graduation walk. (Or maybe that was due not to speed as much as the beginnings of SDM failure that happened with all 3 of my DA* 50-135's ) My favorite combination was the k-7 with the Pentax 18-250. To me, that is where the k-7 shined; small and versatile.

Last edited by PentaxPoke; 04-26-2010 at 04:35 PM.
04-26-2010, 05:26 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
My favorite combination was the k-7 with the Pentax 18-250. To me, that is where the k-7 shined; small and versatile.
That is a very interesting comment ! Thank you for sharing it, PentaxPoke.

I come from a number of ultra-zooms (Olympus, Panasonic), and I moved straight to the K-7 + DA18-250mm.

The DA18-250mm is really a nice lens (not a prime definitely), and one of the best 18-200mm/18-250mm lenses that I tested before deciding for the Pentax combo. Since, I have been delighted to hear the positive experiences of a number of professionals with the DA18-250mm. A really great all-around lens.
04-26-2010, 05:36 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
"If I had to do it again, I would spend the extra dollars and purchase the 7D."

We can switch systems at any time, cant we? Get what makes you happiest and have no regrets.

Jason
Only if one has the means to do so. I don't.

04-26-2010, 05:39 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hey Elwood Quote
Hi everyone,
I have a quick question. I currently have a K20d with a da 50-135 lens. I've got a wedding to photograph in October and need to make a decision. I'm thinking about picking up a companion to my 50-135 lens for my k20 but I'm thinking I might want to start saving for a new camera as well. I'm thinking about picking up a k-7 but I'm hearing fantasitic things about the Canon 7d. I'm thinking it might be time to switch systems but I wanted to get everyone's thinking about k-7 before I make any decisions.
I feel that you need nobody's approval for your decision. If I were to shoot wedding and sticked with APS-C, the EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS & EF 70-200/4L IS alone would be good enough reason to go Canon. The DA* zooms supposed to be awesome alternatives, but you really have to decide whether SDM would ever be as fast as ring USM, and your confidence on SDM relability. Not to mention the 7D would just beat Pentax on low EV and AF tracking which you might use a lot for wedding, depends on your shooting style. However, E-TTL flash while better than P-TTL, is still behind Nikon. If you don't need HSS & remote flash, plain A flash would be a more consistant and better alternative. Sadly the Nikon 17-55/2.8 is not VR. There is no perfect system, and you don't switch just because of a single camera. Good luck.
04-26-2010, 07:23 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by wlachan Quote
There is no perfect system, and you don't switch just because of a single camera. Good luck.
Totally agreed. I've tried looking at other systems and I think that you have to consider the pros and cons and each... and usually if one has more pros than another, it's usually at a cost of something. Usually money.
04-26-2010, 07:26 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hey Elwood Quote
I have a da* 50-135 2.8 lens I'm thinking about purchasing a Tamaron 17-55 2.8 lens as a companion but I don't want to invest the money if it's a better idea to start moving toward Canon. I'm trying to figure out what will work best for the future. I also have to do a wedding in October so I want to make sure I have the gear that will help me do the best job I can. Since I'm doing a wedding I need things like speed. I know that Pentax is slow as shown in this video.
Canon has a fast AF system, yes. Although I wouldn't put a whole lot of credence in that video. I haven't shot the K-7 with a 50-135 (yet)....but..as an ex-Canonite...I can say those two lenses are quite possibly Canon's fastest focusing lenses. The 70-200 f/4 L and the 17-55 f/2.8 EF-S both have lighting fast USM motors.

The comparison with the 18-250 with the zoom extended is a joke and shouldn't even be there. I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere close to the 17-55 ef-s or the 70-200 L. Apples to grapes, anyone?

We also don't know the parameters of the test...I mean, can you say for sure the Pentax and the Canon were focusing on the same target? The way the K-7 was focusing it seemed like it was pointed at a blank white wall, something didn't seem right the way it 'jumps'. Going by the video someone else posted in this thread kinda shows that there wasn't something quite right with the first video.

Canon's system may be fast....however I always struggled with keeper ratio...it misses a lot. At least when I had my K10D I knew when I had a lock there was was a pretty good bet that the shot was in focus.

Last edited by jgmankos; 04-26-2010 at 07:40 PM.
04-26-2010, 07:36 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I've used an *istD, K10, K20 and k7 as wedding cameras. Each camera suffered multiple AF failures at critical points. The AF wouldn't track the bridesmaids, wouldn't track the bride, missed focus during the hand off, etc.
Quite frankly, Pentax's AF is not to be trusted at weddings.
Now I'm sure that this will bring out the fanboys and multiple pictures posted of how their cameras work just fine, but you put a Pentax into a dim church and ask it to track a moving subject and you are asking for a fail.
I now use manual focus for weddings, and were I doing them as regularly now as I was 10 years ago I'd have a 135 format camera, not an APS-C format camera.
If you put a Canon in a dimly lit church...sure you'll get focus lock every time...but your keeper ratio will be much lower. I'd rather feel confident in the accuracy of the system and have it be a bit slower.

I agree about the manual focus...but it's hard with a crop sensor, especially if you're not shooting with fast primes.

04-26-2010, 09:36 PM   #54
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You seemed to have mirrored my findings with the canon 50d. The trade off is pentax doesn't always focus (as wheatfeild explains) in certain situations whereas canon always focuses. The difference in my findings were that in the situations where Pentax had trouble focusing and took longer the shots looked better than the canons. Focus discrepencies were apparent. In better light the canon was fine so its not lens focusing issues.
04-26-2010, 10:27 PM   #55
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QuoteQuote:
If you put a Canon in a dimly lit church...sure you'll get focus lock every time...but your keeper ratio will be much lower. I'd rather feel confident in the accuracy of the system and have it be a bit slower.
QuoteQuote:
Canon's system may be fast....however I always struggled with keeper ratio...it misses a lot. At least when I had my K10D I knew when I had a lock there was was a pretty good bet that the shot was in focus.
QuoteQuote:
The trade off is pentax doesn't always focus (as wheatfeild explains) in certain situations whereas canon always focuses. The difference in my findings were that in the situations where Pentax had trouble focusing and took longer the shots looked better than the canons. Focus discrepencies were apparent. In better light the canon was fine so its not lens focusing issues.
Huzzah! So I guess the grass isn't always greener on the other side! I've been looking for this kind of info as I've always been curious about the other camera manufacturers. Interesting how the methodology differs between the two.

I guess the super - pro bodies have way better AF overall... but of course, they cost tons of cash. That there seems to be the trade off: monetary cost.

I too found my Pentax K20D to have many keepers... but it's a bit slow getting it!
04-27-2010, 05:48 AM   #56
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What Canon gear did you own & use ?

What Canon gear did you own & use ?

I find my K20D refuses to lock focus compared to old 5D in dimly lit situations.

I find taking the shot is superior to pressing the Pentax shutter button and getting nothing.


QuoteOriginally posted by jgmankos Quote
Canon has a fast AF system, yes. Although I wouldn't put a whole lot of credence in that video. I haven't shot the K-7 with a 50-135 (yet)....but..as an ex-Canonite...I can say those two lenses are quite possibly Canon's fastest focusing lenses. The 70-200 f/4 L and the 17-55 f/2.8 EF-S both have lighting fast USM motors.

The comparison with the 18-250 with the zoom extended is a joke and shouldn't even be there. I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere close to the 17-55 ef-s or the 70-200 L. Apples to grapes, anyone?

We also don't know the parameters of the test...I mean, can you say for sure the Pentax and the Canon were focusing on the same target? The way the K-7 was focusing it seemed like it was pointed at a blank white wall, something didn't seem right the way it 'jumps'. Going by the video someone else posted in this thread kinda shows that there wasn't something quite right with the first video.

Canon's system may be fast....however I always struggled with keeper ratio...it misses a lot. At least when I had my K10D I knew when I had a lock there was was a pretty good bet that the shot was in focus.
04-27-2010, 08:12 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgmankos Quote
Canon's system may be fast....however I always struggled with keeper ratio...it misses a lot. At least when I had my K10D I knew when I had a lock there was was a pretty good bet that the shot was in focus.
But is your "Canonite" experience based specifically on the 7D? I can't speak for older EOS, but the 7D is the most responsive and accurate camera with regards to AF I have ever used. The 7D's AF system is quite different from it's predecessors. It is even more advanced than the FF 5D MkII.

With regards to the urban myth that "Canon is fast but inaccurate, and Pentax is slow but accurate." I have not found that to be my experience when comparing my Pentax bodies to the 7D. I have also tested a T2i recently, and the new AF system is fast and accurate as well. It shares some of the core 7D AF characteristics, however it has a single Digic IV instead of the parallel processing of the dual Digic IV on the 7D. Apparently the dual processor is one of the things that makes AF tracking so good on the 7D. One entire processor is dedicated to AF functions.
04-27-2010, 08:14 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgmankos Quote
If you put a Canon in a dimly lit church...sure you'll get focus lock every time...but your keeper ratio will be much lower. I'd rather feel confident in the accuracy of the system and have it be a bit slower.
I can't speak to a church setting on this, but shooting side by side at a water polo event with a friend who uses a 7D, he was getting focus lock faster, and getting more in focus pictures than I was.

I suspect that getting focus lock will provide more in focus pictures than not getting focus lock, and getting focus lock faster will provide more keepers than getting it slower.
I respectfully disagree with your summation.
04-27-2010, 08:17 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
But is your "Canonite" experience based specifically on the 7D? I can't speak for older EOS, but the 7D is the most responsive and accurate camera with regards to AF I have ever used. The 7D's AF system is quite different from it's predecessors. It is even more advanced than the FF 5D MkII.

With regards to the urban myth that "Canon is fast but inaccurate, and Pentax is slow but accurate." I have not found that to be my experience when comparing my Pentax bodies to the 7D. I have also tested a T2i recently, and the new AF system is fast and accurate as well. It shares some of the core 7D AF characteristics, however it has a single Digic IV instead of the parallel processing of the dual Digic IV on the 7D. Apparently the dual processor is one of the things that makes AF tracking so good on the 7D. One entire processor is dedicated to AF functions.
+1, and the 7D AF is an area that Pentax could learn a few lessons from. The &D is using pretty new technology, Pentax SAFOX is merely a tweaked version of what was put into the ist film camera some 8 years ago.
04-27-2010, 08:23 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
I am a longtime Pentax enthusiast, but I must admit, the only advantages that the K-7 has over the 7D in my opinion, is size, weight, and cost. I owned a K-7 and I have a 7D now. The advantages of the 7D over the K-7 include:
Well...size, weight and cost are a given. I also find that I like Pentax's auto ISO, shake reduction, tighter weather sealing (the 7D is only partially sealed with some "enforced seams". It's not splash-proof.), quieter shutter, and SD cards a lot more desirable than the 7D's counterparts.

QuoteQuote:
1) Significantly faster AF in low light (Elwood's link above shows that pretty clearly, and it is my experience as well.) This is useful in many more applications than simply sports. You don't see the difference as much in bright light, but in dim light, the outdated SAFOX shows its limitations.
2) Significantly better tracking AF
3) Much better high-ISO noise control without loss of detail
4) Much faster FPS
5) Better control of exposure for video, and full HD.
6) Access to a much wider range of in-production lenses.
7) No SDM! All EOS cameras use lens motors, so there is no moving mechanical connection whatsoever between the lens and the camera. In all but the cheapest lenses, the EOS lens drive motors are true ring-type ultrasonic, and have been since 1987.
Amen. These are all true, sadly.

QuoteQuote:
8) Better flash exposure.
This one I cannot agree. My K-7's flash exposure is worlds better than the K10D's. In fact, it's scarily accurate. I'd say the 77 segment has put the K-7 in Nikon category in terms of flash exposure.

However, Canon's flashes do have faster cycle times and juicier batteries available than Pentax's.

QuoteQuote:
9) Ability to rent pretty much whatever you want from a variety of sources to try it out.
Amen. That's the single reason why Pentax is no longer my only system.

However, the size/weight of the 7D, although looks like only one disadvantage, will be the one fatal flaw of it: it's the same size as the 5Dmk2. Given that the bodies are only $1K apart, I don't see a lot of reason why anyone would choose the 7D instead of 5Dmk2 at all.

Last edited by wolfier; 04-27-2010 at 08:47 AM.
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