[crossmr]

So I'm going to be buying a new camera in a couple days. I'm really torn between the w90 and the Lumix.

Image quality seems similar, but the w90 movie quality from some reviews seems like night and day.
i've been agonizing over the lenstip.com review
Underwater cameras test 2010 - Quality of pictures and movies on dry land - Lenstip.com

but I'm noticing a bit of an oddity. They said that their w90 didn't zoom during movies, yet other users here have reported that there w90 has no issues zooming while recording. So I'm wondering if there was something up with the unit they had to test. You can see near the bottom the onland video comparison between the Lumix. The difference is really striking.

http://www.lenstip.com/upload2/33583_panas1.jpg Lumix
vs
http://www.lenstip.com/upload2/33585_pentax1.jpg Pentax

Underwater it also seems pretty bad
http://www.lenstip.com/upload2/33067_panas_film3.jpg Lumix
vs
http://www.lenstip.com/upload2/33132_pentax_film1.jpg Pentax

So I'm wondering for those who have it, is the movie quality really this bad? Was it their test unit which didn't seem to be functioning properly? I'm hoping to replace my aging Aiptek 720p HD. Its just a handy little camera, that takes HD, not super quality and its comparable to the images from the Lumix, but the Pentax isn't even close which would mean I'd have to keep that one for doing reasonable videos.

[crossmr]

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3tEzKYdE3w[/YT]

So what I've been able to determine is that in indoor light or shade, the camera is not bad. It seems to washout though in direct sunlight. Something the Lumix doesn't seem to do as badly from the samples I saw. That's certainly less of an issue, but still an issue. Can anyone comment on this? Is there anyway to adjust some settings to fix the wash-out in the bright sun? White balance or something? This video here opens in the direct sun then cuts to the cab and in the shade. You can see a real difference in the quality in my opinion.

[uuderzo]

Hello Crossmr,

I can confirm that the video quality is on par with the video you posted. Consider that the front lens protection glass diffraction helps a lot in washing out images (but even the car glass in the video helps). If you keep the sun behind you you avoid the issue.

On low light there is a noticeable amount of noise (i usually fix it with a filter on my video editor, but the original may be really noisy). In good light conditions the quality is pretty nice (considering the lens) but due to the optical schema you can notice some "smearing" if you point the cam on very bright spots.

I was hesitant between W90 and Lumix (reviews show a better handling of high ISO on Lumix, forget getting something decent on W90 over 400 ISO), but I choosed Pentax due to higher waterproof specs, and better grip (Lumix is flat and slippy).

Last but not least... dont' know Lumix speed, but W90 is lightning fast on operation! Quite useful when you need to "catch the moment".

Hope this helps! Umberto

[crossmr]

Hello Crossmr,

I can confirm that the video quality is on par with the video you posted. Consider that the front lens protection glass diffraction helps a lot in washing out images (but even the car glass in the video helps). If you keep the sun behind you you avoid the issue.

On low light there is a noticeable amount of noise (i usually fix it with a filter on my video editor, but the original may be really noisy). In good light conditions the quality is pretty nice (considering the lens) but due to the optical schema you can notice some "smearing" if you point the cam on very bright spots.

I was hesitant between W90 and Lumix (reviews show a better handling of high ISO on Lumix, forget getting something decent on W90 over 400 ISO), but I choosed Pentax due to higher waterproof specs, and better grip (Lumix is flat and slippy).

Last but not least... dont' know Lumix speed, but W90 is lightning fast on operation! Quite useful when you need to "catch the moment".

Hope this helps! Umberto

Thanks I appreciate the reply. The video problem persists under water too it seems and there isn't much turning away from the sun you can do there.

The pentax only seems to beat the Lumix in one category that being the underwater picture quality and then by a single point.

The detail rendering seems to be really lacking on the Pentax as well compared to the Lumix. As much as I really want the Pentax it is getting hard to justify, especially if I want to replace my aiptek. I've been watching sample videos on and off all day and I think I have to eventually face facts here.

[uuderzo]

Crossmr,

You're right, Lumix has higher image and video quality, hands down.

The difference may be in what you want to do with the camera. I can operate all functions of the W90 with 2.5mm thick gloves without hassle. Some reviews (didn't tried personally) state that the Lumix is difficult to operate with gloves due to small controls.

Well, if I had to choose only for image quality, i'd choose Lumix. But, overall considering, choosed Pentax because is more usable in tough conditions.

Is up to you, obviously

Greetings! Umberto

[crossmr]

Crossmr,

You're right, Lumix has higher image and video quality, hands down.

The difference may be in what you want to do with the camera. I can operate all functions of the W90 with 2.5mm thick gloves without hassle. Some reviews (didn't tried personally) state that the Lumix is difficult to operate with gloves due to small controls.

Well, if I had to choose only for image quality, i'd choose Lumix. But, overall considering, choosed Pentax because is more usable in tough conditions.

Is up to you, obviously

Greetings! Umberto

Thanks. Since I want to replace a camera, image quality is important. I hadn't heard anything on the controls though. I had read in the review above that they liked the Lumix underwater better because it was easier to select the underwater mode than the Pentax. Standard image wise, I'm okay either way, it is just the movie mode that is killing me. After like 20+ sample vids today, I think it is too much of a stumbling block. I'm going to try and handle them both and hopefully they got some demo units there..but.. ah well. Maybe the next Pentax will have better movies.

[crossmr]

ugh well here I am in Fukuoka with no waterproof camera. None of the reviews bothered to mentiont that you can't change the language on the Lumix DMC-TS2. If I buy it here, it seems like I'll be stuck with japanese menus. Not exactly something I'm keen on. The pentax can be changed easily. However a quick test of the demo units showed a big different in movie modes..
bah
so I'm stuck between english menus and lower quality movies and higher quality movies and a japanese language camera.

[crossmr]

after beating it back and forth (and the yodobashi being out of the orange one) I went to the biccamera this morning and picked up a W90. Hopefully it won't let me down.

[crossmr]

So far it is failing to wow me. Here is a couple vids I took today

You Tube

You Tube

optio w90 at the aquarium

You Tube

You Tube

aiptek go HD at the aquarium

the zoom not happening while video recording is really putting me off.
It is very back and forth with these two cameras
video quality
languages
now video features


The pentax really doesn't seem to be up to the Go. The Go isn't a super camera or anything..but still. Especially when looking at the originals.

The lack of optical zoom during recording is putting me off too.

I'm supposed to go back to Biccamera on Wednesday to pick up my international warranty card. I guess it's got that long to wow me. If not, I'll be trading it in and learning to live with the Japanese menus.

[uuderzo]

I'm sorry you don't like your purchase.

Anyway... isn't it possible to flash the Panasonic with an English firmware?

[crossmr]

I'm sorry you don't like your purchase.

Anyway... isn't it possible to flash the Panasonic with an English firmware?

I googled for 2 days and can't find any way to flash the firmware. THere is an update, but it seems to have a generic ft2 update language independent. I thought to flash it with TS2 but I'm not sure it would take it. I wasn't ready to jump on it before I could find out for sure.

In all my googling I found 1 post from someone who also bought it in japan a few weeks ago searching for a way to change it, but he never got any answer.

[crossmr]

Well I've opted to keep it. I've decided to just be less of a perfectionist and enjoy it. I took it out to the water park yesterday and it did okay. It did blow out on a couple of bright videos, but overall, I was satisfied.

You Tube

You Tube

This video was the worst offender, but you can see it doesn't look too bad when I bring it back down. I just have to avoid really pointing it at the sky.

and this was pre-epic sunburn..oh I'm hurting today

[uuderzo]

Crossmr,

I'm happy you choosed to keep the Pentax. Yes, if you point it on bright sources you get lot of "smearing", but i noticed this effect also on other models. Also my Panasonic Lumix LX3 has little smearing if you point it on bright lights, but it's less noticeable than Pentax.

Anyway, they're totally different machines (and LX3 is not waterproof)

Umberto.

[uuderzo]

Well... it happened that last week i grasped a FT2 unit and tested last weekend on a canyoning trip.

First of all, the movie noise reduction in low light of the FT2 (or the different optical schema, don't know) does wonders respect to W90. When W90 comes with extremely bluish noisy movie, the FT2 handles it more and more well (you notice some smearing but colors are ok and no background image noise). In sunny conditions image is great and the "high lights" smearing is extremly less visible than W90 (you see it when targeting but when movie record starts it likely disappears, even if i managed to get some artifatcs in difficult light conditions)

Too bad i took all movies in AVCHD lite format (bad camera configuration, would like to record everything with MJPeg that looked better to my eyes) but the battery never lasted (11 hrs canyon trip and battery was 2/3 charged, W90 battery is not so long lasting, now i think i purchased a useless backup battery).

FT2 has a long exposure option (you can choose between 15", 30", 60" and results are pretty good in night shots with tripod).

Anyway, FT2 looks less rugged than W90 (the body looks more prone to scratches) and the sealed door looks more prone to accidental opening due to the different lock mechanichs. W90 is slimmer and its operation is more comfortable than FT2.

W90 has a faster operating speed, interface and optical zoom (but cannot zoom nor auto focus during video recording and FT2 does). W90 has a bigger 16:9 screen and video playback looks better on it, but when you download to PC it's another story.

W90 has weak 3 led illuminator around the lens and FT2 has only one led that doesn't uniformly lights marco subjects... definitely can live without them.

FT2 square lens design makes difficult to clear the protecting glass from water drops, with W90 round shape you just need to submerge for a second the camera on water and then use it out of water with clean lenses.

Anyway, I decided to keep the FT2 even if it's a bit bigger (but not heavier)... i think that Pentax needs some more improvement on his waterproof model?

A W90 body/interface with a FT2 optics and movie quality would be the perfect rugged camera... too bat there is still no such model...

Please I don't want to create flames, just only wrote down my personal experience for you all to know.

Greetings! Umberto

[crossmr]

I'm quite annoyed that right after I got back the FT2 became available in Korea. I could have lived with Korean menus.. japanese weren't going to cut it though.