Do you really think that HOYA will carry TWO mirrorless system?

Mistral75 · 06-25-2011, 03:02 PM

See attachment: a larger sensor would fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera.

So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though).

Attached Images

Last edited by Mistral75; 06-25-2011 at 04:02 PM.

RonHendriks1966 · 06-25-2011, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

See attachement: a larger sensor woult fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera.

So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though).

I do see this as a possibility. Coult it be that this second mirrorless system would be joining another system? Joining m43 or even Samsung's NX with new body and limited new lenses but using allready excisting lenses from other partners in the system.

UdonUdon · 06-25-2011, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

See attachement: a larger sensor woult fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera.

So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though).

Is that a finger-print on the sensor?!

**Aristophanes** · 06-25-2011, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Pentax should present something right now or train will be gone...Forever.

You don't know squat about markets.

The clock for Pentax and an APS-C mirrorless is not really about Pentax.

It's about Canon and Nikon.

Think about it. They dominate. They have not yet sen a pervasive argument to cannibalize existing DSLR sales chasing a small form factor. The history of shrinking form factors for cameras gets to a point of diminishing returns. not everyone wants a teeny little camera. They want a grip and some heft in the lens, and they are willing to pay big$$$ for that. The most money BY FAR in this industry is made on the higher-end, larger cameras and lenses. Even the uber-flaky Leica is apparently (finally) turning a profit after 40 years, in part because they sell the M9 brick and the S2 line.

What Canikon do is critical because they swing the market for the higher-end bodies and glass. The Pentax market is forged from legacy purchasers who look for value in mid to higher-end gear, especially glass. Higher-end purchasers where the big money is are generally conservative buyers, not known for trending.

The amount of "it's all or nothing" in this forum regarding sales is bizarre. The market for cameras has NEVR been like what you describe. Never. Even when SLR began to dominate in the 1970's, rangefinders AND viewfinders road the coattails to even higher sales with some of the best RF's ever made coming out in that time period.

juu · 06-26-2011, 12:27 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Aristophanes

It's about Canon and Nikon.

Think about it. They dominate. They have not yet sen a pervasive argument to cannibalize existing DSLR sales chasing a small form factor.

History is full of companies failing to get on the next big thing to avoid cannibalizing their existing cash cows.

Instead of necessarily prescribing clairvoyance to Canikon one might as well assume it is corporate hubris, inertia and myopia.

ogl · 06-26-2011, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though).

Maybe, but it will be in another body. Bigger. Don't forget about SR.

RonHendriks1966 · 06-26-2011, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Maybe, but it will be in another body. Bigger. Don't forget about SR.

Well the body should be different to sell it to a different usergroup.

Could this be with a sensor like the talk is about Nikon and making it a snappy fast camera with hi framerate and fast internal handling of data.

A kind of a bitchy Queen!

adr1an · 06-26-2011, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by pxpaulx

Just for your own reference as well OGL, on 4/26/11 at 2:31AM CST you posted the following, in reference to a Pentax Rep stating there would be not one, but two mirrorless Pentax systems released this year:

The words from offical Pentax. Not rumors.

Care to elaborate on how you've changed your mind since then? If you know something we don't, care to share it? (I mean, beyond rampant speculation...)

The silence is deafening isn't it pxpaulx ?

But - gotta give credit where credits due - His trying to keep a lot of plates spinning at the moment, what with all the "Q-angst" across so many threads....

I'm sure he'll be in here soon to set us all straight... 23 times...

Brangdon · 06-26-2011, 06:38 AM

Originally posted by Adam

What's almost certain is that they won't be releasing a k-mount mirrorless camera because it wouldn't end up being much smaller than an SLR (because of the sensor separation requirement), but as far as a third system goes, it's unlikely but possible.

For small physical size there's Q. There are benefits to mirrorless besides size. It should be easier to make, with few moving parts. You can augment an electronic display with information in ways that you can't with an optical viewfinder. And it can be made a bit smaller and lighter: not as small and light as a Q, but an improvement over a K-r, and worth having given that it still delivers a large, high IQ sensor and lets us use our existing high IQ lenses.

Hamster · 06-26-2011, 08:30 AM

Think of this at a cheap stab at the crowd that post facebook photos and youtube videos.

Hoya already had everything in place to make CCTV lens for security system, most of these lens have f-stop brighter than 1.4. I think most of the lens will come in focal lens that are common in CCTV.

This is a project that is probably very fast to bring to market and appeals to a social need rather than photographic quality.

macTak · 06-26-2011, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by Mistral75

second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though).

That might explain the relative bulk and somewhat weak specs of the current lenses-they can cover a larger image circle. I know pentax said they were designed for this camera, but that can be marketing speak. When someone actually gets the lenses, we shall see what their image circle is really like. If there is not any more coverage, then we won't see a larger sensor Q, if there is, then the possibility remains open in Pentax's mind.

Also, as I said on another thread, note imaging-resource's speculation that the "Q" of the Q-mount stands for "Queen", akin to how the K of the K-mount stood for "King". If this is indeed so, then it suggests to me that the other rumored mirror-less from Pentax will not have another completely new mount. After all, the other mirror-less is rumored to be APS-C, and hence have a larger size, so that would have made much more sense as the "Queen" than the tiny size of the just-announced system. So perhaps then the other mirror-less will have the K-mount, or at least some redesigned version of the K-mount such that they feel they can still refer to it under the banner of the K-mount. Some could take this to suggest no other Pentax mirrorless is forthcoming; I still trust in the word that we'd see two mirrorless cameras this year. But now I don't expect as much to see another totally new mount.

Of course, Q could stand for something entirely different (Quirky etc)....

zelovoc · 06-26-2011, 09:31 AM

i think there will be another Q mount camera with bigger senzor later this year, or in the end of year.

ogl · 06-26-2011, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by zelovoc

i think there will be another Q mount camera with bigger senzor later this year, or in the end of year.

Said at video presentation that lenses are optimized for 1/2.3" sensor.

pxpaulx · 06-26-2011, 09:53 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Said at video presentation that lenses are optimized for 1/2.3" sensor.

Oh, I see what you did there

ihasa · 06-26-2011, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by MMVIII

Well you definitely do... I have heard you.

But: I say Pentax-Q is Hoya's view of a compact mirrorless system.
Which leads to: K-mirrorless has not to pursue miniaturisation,
which opens the option of a small mirrorless with standard K-mount (or a shorter KS with a detachable adaptor, allowing the use of other mounts).
Having a thin camera like a NEX etc. becomes (almost) of no value as soon as you attach regular size lenses.

Totally agree! Some sort of k.mount SLT camera seems more likely now, rather than another NEX type. I'm sure Pentax could come out with a new lens system quite easily, but I don't think it would make sense from a marketing pov.

06-26-2011, 01:17 AM	#21
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	Originally posted by Mistral75 So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though). Maybe, but it will be in another body. Bigger. Don't forget about SR. Last edited by ogl; 06-26-2011 at 09:17 AM.

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06-25-2011, 03:02 PM	#16
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	See attachment: a larger sensor would fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera. So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though). Attached Images Last edited by Mistral75; 06-25-2011 at 04:02 PM.

06-25-2011, 03:28 PM	#17
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by Mistral75 See attachement: a larger sensor woult fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera. So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though). I do see this as a possibility. Coult it be that this second mirrorless system would be joining another system? Joining m43 or even Samsung's NX with new body and limited new lenses but using allready excisting lenses from other partners in the system.

06-25-2011, 03:40 PM	#18
UdonUdon Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Texas Photos: Albums Posts: 90	Originally posted by Mistral75 See attachement: a larger sensor woult fit in Q mount. May be as large as the 2.6 crop factor sensor to be used in the rumoured Nikon mirrorless camera. So the second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though). Is that a finger-print on the sensor?!

06-25-2011, 04:22 PM	#19
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by ogl Pentax should present something right now or train will be gone...Forever. You don't know squat about markets. The clock for Pentax and an APS-C mirrorless is not really about Pentax. It's about Canon and Nikon. Think about it. They dominate. They have not yet sen a pervasive argument to cannibalize existing DSLR sales chasing a small form factor. The history of shrinking form factors for cameras gets to a point of diminishing returns. not everyone wants a teeny little camera. They want a grip and some heft in the lens, and they are willing to pay big$$$ for that. The most money BY FAR in this industry is made on the higher-end, larger cameras and lenses. Even the uber-flaky Leica is apparently (finally) turning a profit after 40 years, in part because they sell the M9 brick and the S2 line. What Canikon do is critical because they swing the market for the higher-end bodies and glass. The Pentax market is forged from legacy purchasers who look for value in mid to higher-end gear, especially glass. Higher-end purchasers where the big money is are generally conservative buyers, not known for trending. The amount of "it's all or nothing" in this forum regarding sales is bizarre. The market for cameras has NEVR been like what you describe. Never. Even when SLR began to dominate in the 1970's, rangefinders AND viewfinders road the coattails to even higher sales with some of the best RF's ever made coming out in that time period.

06-26-2011, 12:27 AM - 1 Like	#20
juu Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 680	Originally posted by Aristophanes It's about Canon and Nikon. Think about it. They dominate. They have not yet sen a pervasive argument to cannibalize existing DSLR sales chasing a small form factor. History is full of companies failing to get on the next big thing to avoid cannibalizing their existing cash cows. Instead of necessarily prescribing clairvoyance to Canikon one might as well assume it is corporate hubris, inertia and myopia.

06-26-2011, 01:37 AM	#22
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by ogl Maybe, but it will be in another body. Bigger. Don't forget about SR. Well the body should be different to sell it to a different usergroup. Could this be with a sensor like the talk is about Nikon and making it a snappy fast camera with hi framerate and fast internal handling of data. A kind of a bitchy Queen!

06-26-2011, 01:43 AM	#23
adr1an Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Canberra Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 739	Originally posted by pxpaulx Just for your own reference as well OGL, on 4/26/11 at 2:31AM CST you posted the following, in reference to a Pentax Rep stating there would be not one, but two mirrorless Pentax systems released this year: The words from offical Pentax. Not rumors. Care to elaborate on how you've changed your mind since then? If you know something we don't, care to share it? (I mean, beyond rampant speculation...) The silence is deafening isn't it pxpaulx ? But - gotta give credit where credits due - His trying to keep a lot of plates spinning at the moment, what with all the "Q-angst" across so many threads.... I'm sure he'll be in here soon to set us all straight... 23 times...

06-26-2011, 06:38 AM	#24
Brangdon Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Nottingham Posts: 172	Originally posted by Adam What's almost certain is that they won't be releasing a k-mount mirrorless camera because it wouldn't end up being much smaller than an SLR (because of the sensor separation requirement), but as far as a third system goes, it's unlikely but possible. For small physical size there's Q. There are benefits to mirrorless besides size. It should be easier to make, with few moving parts. You can augment an electronic display with information in ways that you can't with an optical viewfinder. And it can be made a bit smaller and lighter: not as small and light as a Q, but an improvement over a K-r, and worth having given that it still delivers a large, high IQ sensor and lets us use our existing high IQ lenses.

06-26-2011, 08:30 AM	#25
Hamster Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 44	Think of this at a cheap stab at the crowd that post facebook photos and youtube videos. Hoya already had everything in place to make CCTV lens for security system, most of these lens have f-stop brighter than 1.4. I think most of the lens will come in focal lens that are common in CCTV. This is a project that is probably very fast to bring to market and appeals to a social need rather than photographic quality.

06-26-2011, 09:08 AM	#26
macTak Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 759	Originally posted by Mistral75 second mirrorless from Pentax could be with Q mount and a larger sensor (not as large as APS-C though). That might explain the relative bulk and somewhat weak specs of the current lenses-they can cover a larger image circle. I know pentax said they were designed for this camera, but that can be marketing speak. When someone actually gets the lenses, we shall see what their image circle is really like. If there is not any more coverage, then we won't see a larger sensor Q, if there is, then the possibility remains open in Pentax's mind. Also, as I said on another thread, note imaging-resource's speculation that the "Q" of the Q-mount stands for "Queen", akin to how the K of the K-mount stood for "King". If this is indeed so, then it suggests to me that the other rumored mirror-less from Pentax will not have another completely new mount. After all, the other mirror-less is rumored to be APS-C, and hence have a larger size, so that would have made much more sense as the "Queen" than the tiny size of the just-announced system. So perhaps then the other mirror-less will have the K-mount, or at least some redesigned version of the K-mount such that they feel they can still refer to it under the banner of the K-mount. Some could take this to suggest no other Pentax mirrorless is forthcoming; I still trust in the word that we'd see two mirrorless cameras this year. But now I don't expect as much to see another totally new mount. Of course, Q could stand for something entirely different (Quirky etc)....

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06-26-2011, 09:31 AM	#27
zelovoc Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kosice Posts: 80	i think there will be another Q mount camera with bigger senzor later this year, or in the end of year.

06-26-2011, 09:34 AM	#28
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382 Original Poster	Originally posted by zelovoc i think there will be another Q mount camera with bigger senzor later this year, or in the end of year. Said at video presentation that lenses are optimized for 1/2.3" sensor.

06-26-2011, 09:53 AM	#29
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	Originally posted by ogl Said at video presentation that lenses are optimized for 1/2.3" sensor. Oh, I see what you did there

06-26-2011, 10:25 AM	#30
ihasa Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: West Midlands Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,066	Originally posted by MMVIII Well you definitely do... I have heard you. But: I say Pentax-Q is Hoya's view of a compact mirrorless system. Which leads to: K-mirrorless has not to pursue miniaturisation, which opens the option of a small mirrorless with standard K-mount (or a shorter KS with a detachable adaptor, allowing the use of other mounts). Having a thin camera like a NEX etc. becomes (almost) of no value as soon as you attach regular size lenses. Totally agree! Some sort of k.mount SLT camera seems more likely now, rather than another NEX type. I'm sure Pentax could come out with a new lens system quite easily, but I don't think it would make sense from a marketing pov.