What is, and what is NOT, a "Point and shoot?"

kyteflyer · 12-24-2011, 03:48 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by ivoire

The Rules

1. Have Fun!

2. Cameras
No cameras with sensors larger than 1"
No Large Format or camera typically requiring a tripod to use.
No 35mm (D)SLRs
No camera weighing over 1kg

3. Entries will close on ___________

4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels.

5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see.

6. THEME: ________________

7. Max of 3 photographs per person.

8. Post processing is fine.

9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition

Comments?

I vote YES!!!!!

Mike Cash · 12-24-2011, 06:25 PM

I think that is as close as we are likely to get to a solution satisfactory to everyone. I'm fine with it.

Maybe Rule #1 ought to be italicized, bold-faced, underlined, and in giant red letters.

ivoire · 12-24-2011, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Maybe Rule #1 ought to be italicized, bold-faced, underlined, and in giant red letters.

That's a good suggestion Mike as that is the true intent for this particular competition.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 12-24-2011, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by ivoire

2. Cameras
No cameras with sensors larger than 1"
No Large Format or camera typically requiring a tripod to use.
No 35mm (D)SLRs
No camera weighing over 1kg

Digital cameras are taken care by rule 1. Perfect!

Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs?

Let's just allow any film camera.

ivoire · 12-24-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs?

Let's just allow any film camera.

MF TLR? I'm guessing you meant MF SLR

The Rules

1. Have Fun!

2. Cameras
a. Allowed
1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1"
2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions)

b. Not Allowed
1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use.
2. 35mm (D)SLRs
3. Cameras weighing over 1kg
4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras

3. Entries will close on ___________

4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels.

5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see.

6. THEME: ________________

7. Max of 3 photographs per person.

8. Post processing is fine.

9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition

Laurentiu Cristofor · 12-24-2011, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by ivoire

MF TLR? I'm guessing you meant MF SLR

No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus

).

ivoire · 12-25-2011, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus

).

OK, but what are the odds that such cameras will be used to enter this competition? A perfect set of rules, given the number/types of cameras invented, is impossible (as is satisfying everyone). In the event that someone was willing to dust off their 'working antique', shoot a few photos, digitize and enter them in a competition, I would allow them just based on the entrants tenacity and the cameras 'uniqueness' in undertaking such an endeavor. On the other hand, 35mm SLRs abound. If sanity manages to prevail here, I think we now have a viable, realistic, more than adequate set of rules.

Last edited by ivoire; 12-25-2011 at 08:01 AM.

chubasco · 12-25-2011, 10:33 AM

Yes, I have a couple Mamiyaflex TLRs that use interchangeable lenses, don't
think that keeps with the spirit of the new rules. I have others with fixed lenses,
but Ivoire's rules use the KISS method, and most TLRs would run over a kilo, as
well as any LF camera. Pandora's box should be left closed...

ivoire · 12-25-2011, 11:31 AM

Digital Compact and Film Camera Competition

The Rules

1. Have Fun!

2. Cameras
a. Allowed
1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1"
2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions)

b. Not Allowed
1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use.
2. 35mm (D)SLRs
3. Cameras weighing over 1kg
4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras

3. Entries will close on ___________

4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels.

5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see.

6. THEME: ________________

7. Max of 3 photographs per person.

8. Post processing is fine.

9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition

Obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling

It's time to let go!

unixrevolution · 12-25-2011, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Digital cameras are taken care by rule 1. Perfect!

Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs?

Let's just allow any film camera.

Are there any other cameras you specifically know I use and enjoy that you'd like to ban? I used a Yashica 635 TLR, loaded with 35mm film, in a point and shoot contest, and it was legal by the rules at the time: MF was disallowed, and it was even a 35mm camera.

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus

).

They are, and they shoot a 6x6 frame.

Originally posted by ivoire

OK, but what are the odds that such cameras will be used to enter this competition? A perfect set of rules, given the number/types of cameras invented, is impossible (as is satisfying everyone). In the event that someone was willing to dust off their 'working antique', shoot a few photos, digitize and enter them in a competition, I would allow them just based on the entrants tenacity and the cameras 'uniqueness' in undertaking such an endeavor. On the other hand, 35mm SLRs abound. If sanity manages to prevail here, I think we now have a viable, realistic, more than adequate set of rules.

The odds are very good...I have a Yashica 635 that I use as a walkaround camera from time to time.

Originally posted by chubasco

Yes, I have a couple Mamiyaflex TLRs that use interchangeable lenses, don't
think that keeps with the spirit of the new rules. I have others with fixed lenses,
but Ivoire's rules use the KISS method, and most TLRs would run over a kilo, as
well as any LF camera. Pandora's box should be left closed...

The Mamiyaflex TLRs ARE NOT TYPICAL Twin Lens Reflexes. They are extremely big, and heavy, and are the only widely produced interchangeable lens TLRs. Most TLRs are very compact, very light, and, especially for a meidum format camera, very easy to carry. My Yashica 635 doesn't weigh more than the typical 35mm Rangefinder, right at 2 pounds.

Originally posted by ivoire

Digital Compact and Film Camera Competition

The Rules

1. Have Fun!

2. Cameras
a. Allowed
1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1"
2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions)

b. Not Allowed
1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use.
2. 35mm (D)SLRs
3. Cameras weighing over 1kg
4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras

3. Entries will close on ___________

4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels.

5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see.

6. THEME: ________________

7. Max of 3 photographs per person.

8. Post processing is fine.

9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition

Obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling

It's time to let go!

And ****, here we are again, aren't we? You know what, I give up. Do what you want, I'll just go do something else.

chubasco · 12-25-2011, 12:22 PM

The all-pervasive/evergreen word should be [COMPACT]. I'm looking at a
Yashica-A on my desk and no way in hell am I gonna cram it into one of my
shirtpockets and walk around town, looking like some Amazon warrior. I
wouldn't want to pack it in a roomy coat pocket for very long, either.

If you have to do something else, walk in light...

RioRico · 12-25-2011, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by unixrevolution

And ****, here we are again, aren't we? You know what, I give up. Do what you want, I'll just go do something else.

It never ends, eh? Consensus is impossible, eh? Like herding cats, eh?
NOTE: I've herded cats. That's easier than getting consensus here.

ivoire · 12-25-2011, 12:42 PM

I'm done. Going out with my digital (questionable point n shoot/compact/small sensor/fit in shirt pocket) Samsung TL350 and have some fun.

Bart · 12-25-2011, 01:14 PM

This reminds me of the government formation talks we had over here

it took 'a while' but eventually all cleared up and a consensus was found.

Mike Cash · 12-25-2011, 03:16 PM

I would have to go back through the threads of the contests I've entered to be sure, but I believe I have entered images from at least one of my TLR cameras before. until I got the X10 a couple of weeks ago, I didn't even own a digital compact camera, so I know with absolute certainty that all my submitted shots were from either a TLR or a rangefinder or a box camera.

12-24-2011, 09:58 PM	#230
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Quote: Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs? Let's just allow any film camera. MF TLR? I'm guessing you meant MF SLR The Rules 1. Have Fun! 2. Cameras a. Allowed 1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1" 2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions) b. Not Allowed 1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use. 2. 35mm (D)SLRs 3. Cameras weighing over 1kg 4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras 3. Entries will close on ___________ 4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels. 5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see. 6. THEME: ________________ 7. Max of 3 photographs per person. 8. Post processing is fine. 9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition Last edited by ivoire; 12-25-2011 at 11:27 AM.

12-24-2011, 11:03 PM	#231
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by ivoire MF TLR? I'm guessing you meant MF SLR No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus ). Last edited by Laurentiu Cristofor; 12-24-2011 at 11:04 PM. Reason: added clarification for MF

12-25-2011, 11:31 AM	#234
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Digital Compact and Film Camera Competition The Rules 1. Have Fun! 2. Cameras a. Allowed 1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1" 2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions) b. Not Allowed 1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use. 2. 35mm (D)SLRs 3. Cameras weighing over 1kg 4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras 3. Entries will close on ___________ 4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels. 5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see. 6. THEME: ________________ 7. Max of 3 photographs per person. 8. Post processing is fine. 9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition Obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling It's time to let go! Last edited by ivoire; 12-25-2011 at 11:37 AM.

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12-24-2011, 03:48 PM - 1 Like	#226
kyteflyer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newcastle, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,444	Originally posted by ivoire The Rules 1. Have Fun! 2. Cameras No cameras with sensors larger than 1" No Large Format or camera typically requiring a tripod to use. No 35mm (D)SLRs No camera weighing over 1kg 3. Entries will close on ___________ 4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels. 5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see. 6. THEME: ________________ 7. Max of 3 photographs per person. 8. Post processing is fine. 9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition Comments? I vote YES!!!!!

12-24-2011, 06:25 PM	#227
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I think that is as close as we are likely to get to a solution satisfactory to everyone. I'm fine with it. Maybe Rule #1 ought to be italicized, bold-faced, underlined, and in giant red letters.

12-24-2011, 09:05 PM	#228
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Quote: Maybe Rule #1 ought to be italicized, bold-faced, underlined, and in giant red letters. That's a good suggestion Mike as that is the true intent for this particular competition.

12-24-2011, 09:35 PM	#229
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Originally posted by ivoire 2. Cameras No cameras with sensors larger than 1" No Large Format or camera typically requiring a tripod to use. No 35mm (D)SLRs No camera weighing over 1kg Digital cameras are taken care by rule 1. Perfect! Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs? Let's just allow any film camera.

12-25-2011, 07:35 AM	#232
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus ). OK, but what are the odds that such cameras will be used to enter this competition? A perfect set of rules, given the number/types of cameras invented, is impossible (as is satisfying everyone). In the event that someone was willing to dust off their 'working antique', shoot a few photos, digitize and enter them in a competition, I would allow them just based on the entrants tenacity and the cameras 'uniqueness' in undertaking such an endeavor. On the other hand, 35mm SLRs abound. If sanity manages to prevail here, I think we now have a viable, realistic, more than adequate set of rules. Last edited by ivoire; 12-25-2011 at 08:01 AM.

12-25-2011, 10:33 AM	#233
chubasco Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 328	Yes, I have a couple Mamiyaflex TLRs that use interchangeable lenses, don't think that keeps with the spirit of the new rules. I have others with fixed lenses, but Ivoire's rules use the KISS method, and most TLRs would run over a kilo, as well as any LF camera. Pandora's box should be left closed...

12-25-2011, 11:57 AM	#235
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861 Original Poster	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Digital cameras are taken care by rule 1. Perfect! Now if we could also cleanly specify what film cameras can be used. For example, a MF TLR is allowed by these rules - but should it be when we disallow all 35mm SLRs? Let's just allow any film camera. Are there any other cameras you specifically know I use and enjoy that you'd like to ban? I used a Yashica 635 TLR, loaded with 35mm film, in a point and shoot contest, and it was legal by the rules at the time: MF was disallowed, and it was even a 35mm camera. Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor No, I meant TLR: twin lens reflex camera - most of them are MF (and by this I meant medium format, not manual focus ). They are, and they shoot a 6x6 frame. Originally posted by ivoire OK, but what are the odds that such cameras will be used to enter this competition? A perfect set of rules, given the number/types of cameras invented, is impossible (as is satisfying everyone). In the event that someone was willing to dust off their 'working antique', shoot a few photos, digitize and enter them in a competition, I would allow them just based on the entrants tenacity and the cameras 'uniqueness' in undertaking such an endeavor. On the other hand, 35mm SLRs abound. If sanity manages to prevail here, I think we now have a viable, realistic, more than adequate set of rules. The odds are very good...I have a Yashica 635 that I use as a walkaround camera from time to time. Originally posted by chubasco Yes, I have a couple Mamiyaflex TLRs that use interchangeable lenses, don't think that keeps with the spirit of the new rules. I have others with fixed lenses, but Ivoire's rules use the KISS method, and most TLRs would run over a kilo, as well as any LF camera. Pandora's box should be left closed... The Mamiyaflex TLRs ARE NOT TYPICAL Twin Lens Reflexes. They are extremely big, and heavy, and are the only widely produced interchangeable lens TLRs. Most TLRs are very compact, very light, and, especially for a meidum format camera, very easy to carry. My Yashica 635 doesn't weigh more than the typical 35mm Rangefinder, right at 2 pounds. Originally posted by ivoire Digital Compact and Film Camera Competition The Rules 1. Have Fun! 2. Cameras a. Allowed 1. Cameras with sensors not larger than 1" 2. Film cameras (see b. Not Allowed for exclusions) b. Not Allowed 1. Large Format or cameras typically requiring a tripod to use. 2. 35mm (D)SLRs 3. Cameras weighing over 1kg 4. Twin Lens Reflex cameras 3. Entries will close on ___________ 4. Maximum image dimensions are 1024x768 pixels. 5. List camera brand, model with entry for all to see. 6. THEME: ________________ 7. Max of 3 photographs per person. 8. Post processing is fine. 9. Contest winner agrees to use these rules, selects theme, sets closing date and judges next competition Obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling It's time to let go! And ****, here we are again, aren't we? You know what, I give up. Do what you want, I'll just go do something else.

12-25-2011, 12:22 PM	#236
chubasco Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Alabama Photos: Gallery Posts: 328	The all-pervasive/evergreen word should be [COMPACT]. I'm looking at a Yashica-A on my desk and no way in hell am I gonna cram it into one of my shirtpockets and walk around town, looking like some Amazon warrior. I wouldn't want to pack it in a roomy coat pocket for very long, either. If you have to do something else, walk in light...

12-25-2011, 12:24 PM	#237
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Originally posted by unixrevolution And ****, here we are again, aren't we? You know what, I give up. Do what you want, I'll just go do something else. It never ends, eh? Consensus is impossible, eh? Like herding cats, eh? NOTE: I've herded cats. That's easier than getting consensus here.

12-25-2011, 12:42 PM	#238
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381	I'm done. Going out with my digital (questionable point n shoot/compact/small sensor/fit in shirt pocket) Samsung TL350 and have some fun.

12-25-2011, 01:14 PM	#239
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	This reminds me of the government formation talks we had over here it took 'a while' but eventually all cleared up and a consensus was found.

12-25-2011, 03:16 PM	#240
Mike Cash Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,950	I would have to go back through the threads of the contests I've entered to be sure, but I believe I have entered images from at least one of my TLR cameras before. until I got the X10 a couple of weeks ago, I didn't even own a digital compact camera, so I know with absolute certainty that all my submitted shots were from either a TLR or a rangefinder or a box camera.