Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
09-27-2011, 01:12 PM   #1
Veteran Member
unixrevolution's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Waldorf, MD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,861
What is, and what is NOT, a "Point and shoot?"

Following a discussion in Point and Shoot contests #33 and #46, some people, myself included, have called into question what a point and shoot camera is.

In order not to distract any more from the actual contest, and additionally so that I can maybe discuss this at further length than usual, I'd like to ask the community: What defines a point and shoot to you?

There's a number of criteria people point to. Physical size, sensor or film frame size, presence of automation, lack of manual overrides, and whether or not the user is viewing through the taking lens.

The easiest thing to do is to point to something that is unequivocally a point and shoot, and go from there. Take a Vivitar VS28B for example:



With a 2.1mp sensor the size of a grain of sand (or nearly so), it is focus-free, has an external finder, a tiny, low-resolution sensor, and pretty much one control: The shutter button. Okay, it probably has a flash on/off too. Retailing for under $20, it's definitely a point and shoot.

I, personally, think that a point and shoot is a camera with non-TTL viewing that lacks interchangeable lenses. It may or may not have manual controls, it may or may not have automated features.

So let me hear it, and let me have it. What makes a point and shoot? What is one? What isn't one? Is the Pentax Q a point and shoot? What about a Leica M9? What about a Pentax Optio A40?

09-27-2011, 01:28 PM   #2
Veteran Member
icywarm's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,278
um... I don't have a duck in this race.... but I would say a point and shoot should not be confused with small form factor or compact cameras... point and shoot means just that P&S, not point, focus and shoot...

I would use a test... with a back-lit subject... take a picture... if you can get details in the subject by changing something vs ending up with a black face and white sunrise you are perhaps not using a point and shoot.
09-27-2011, 01:38 PM   #3
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 51,584
It's any camera that features a high degree of automation, doesn't support interchangeable lenses, and isn't a phone. I think that's a pretty solid definition

Optio/Espio/IQZoom = P&S
Q = mirrorless interchangeable lens
Others = SLR

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover these costs by donating or purchasing one of our Pentax eBooks. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, KEH, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:
09-27-2011, 02:09 PM   #4
Veteran Member
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,806
Mirrorless, small sensor, fixed lens, single purpose (i.e. not a phone or ipad).

09-27-2011, 02:09 PM   #5
Veteran Member
ivoire's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,381
to me, a point and shoot camera is one using all automatic settings so as to make taking a photo a no brainer. It has a fixed lens ie non interchangeable, automated controls and sensor size really doesn't matter. you turn it on, point at the subject and depress the shutter. the camera does all the work.
09-27-2011, 02:16 PM   #6
Veteran Member
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,806
QuoteOriginally posted by ivoire Quote
to me, a point and shoot camera is one using all automatic settings so as to make taking a photo a no brainer. It has a fixed lens ie non interchangeable, automated controls and sensor size really doesn't matter. you turn it on, point at the subject and depress the shutter. the camera does all the work.
I have a small Canon A720 IS that has all the normal auto functions and allows fully manual operation (M-mode). Lots of cameras do, Canon G models for example, some bridge cams. Are they not p&s to you? My wife uses the K100DS like a p&s, Green mode all the way.
09-27-2011, 02:28 PM   #7
Veteran Member
icywarm's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Saskatchewan
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,278
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I have a small Canon A720 IS that has all the normal auto functions and allows fully manual operation (M-mode). Lots of cameras do, Canon G models for example, some bridge cams. Are they not p&s to you? My wife uses the K100DS like a p&s, Green mode all the way.
See and I would think there is a difference between a P&S and using a camera like a point and shoot... the Canon G, I would not consider P&S... ie have full manual controls... and bridge cameras are bridge cameras not a P&S nor a DSLR/Rangefinder

From google review of G "RAW mode for the ultimate in creative control" creative control does not equal P&S

From google review of A720 "It is a clear step up from a standard point and shoot camera"

09-27-2011, 02:40 PM   #8
Veteran Member
ivoire's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,381
QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
I have a small Canon A720 IS that has all the normal auto functions and allows fully manual operation (M-mode). Lots of cameras do, Canon G models for example, some bridge cams. Are they not p&s to you? My wife uses the K100DS like a p&s, Green mode all the way.
I alluded to that in contest#46 and the discussion was moved here (fortunately and wisely). I think with the multitude of cameras that exist it is difficult to define. If i were running a "point n shoot" competition instead of a "point n shoot camera" competition the issue would not arise. just state any camera in "P" mode, lens set at a fixed mm, with auto aperture, turn on, point n shoot. even my K5 gets used that way on occasion.
09-27-2011, 03:10 PM   #9
Veteran Member
audiobomber's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
Photos: Albums
Posts: 6,806
Nah, I can't agree. Bridge cams and compacts with manual controls are p&s cams to me because of sensor size and fixed lenses. The only difference between a bridge camera superzoom and a regular point and shoot is the amount of zoom, it still has all the same limitations. Manual controls are very limited in what they can do because of difraction and sensor noise.

Using a DSLR like a point & shoot doesn't make it a point and shoot. Using a G12 like a DSLR doesn't change what it is, a small sensor fixed lens compact camera.
09-27-2011, 03:23 PM   #10
Veteran Member
SlickYamaha's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bel Air MD
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 840
My personal definition would be.

-Non-removable lens
-Push button zoom
-Automatic focus

I realize this is not by any means a "technical definition" but I think this is the most basic way to identify a P&S. I would go so far as to say Cell Phone, should the user want to use one. I think when it has a removable lens, manual focus, manual zoom, thats when it goes to the next level...





09-27-2011, 03:58 PM   #11
Veteran Member
RioRico's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Limbo, California
Posts: 11,263
If you own a dSLR, then a P&S is what you're ashamed of, but still derive guilty pleasure from.

Other than that, we can say that a P&S (fixed-lens) usually has minimal controls NECESSARY to operate it. So I can grab my venerable 5mpx Sony DSC-V1 and switch it on, and it's ready to go, complete with the toggle-switch zoom. Or I can flick it into manual or priority modes or NightShot, and do my own thinking; but just to power up and shoot, no thought is needed. Even simpler is my older 1mpx DSC-P20 with a normal-FL prime and no controls except the night-day-review-cine switch, and the macro switch, and the menu system. Really basic. It's also good for tossing around for artistic blur shots, you betcha.

Of course P&S's aren't new. The original Kodak Brownie ("You press the button and we do the rest") goes back 120 years. Box cams and Polaroids and Instamatics; my Canon Dial-35 and SS80u; and don't forget the Holga, eh? If you don't NEED to push more than two buttons to use it, and can't change lenses, it's a P&S. I guess my TracFone FotoMoto qualifies too.
09-27-2011, 04:22 PM   #12
Banned




Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,055
I think the defining condition is the first one that I mentioned in the contest thread: no advanced controls - i.e. no Av, Tv, M. A P&S is a camera that does not allow a smarter way of using it than point and shoot - maybe after selecting a scene mode. Once you get manual controls, you have a compact camera, but it's not just a P&S.

Another way of restricting the category would be by IQ, which in turn would get down to sensor size. This is a wider definition, because now we would include more competent cameras like superzooms or the Pentax Q. Still, in terms of subject isolation/DOF, these would be similar.

But if we want to go beyond that and qualify cameras like X100 or E-P3 as P&S, then the term P&S would become pretty meaningless.
09-27-2011, 04:30 PM   #13
Veteran Member
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,361
That guy at the tourist spot with the full-frame Canon with the white lens? You know, the one in P-mode with no sense of composition and lacking even a basic understanding of what's happening when his presses the shutter? That's a point & shoot.

P&S is a state of mind.
09-27-2011, 04:49 PM   #14
Veteran Member
JinDesu's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New York City
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,638
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
That guy at the tourist spot with the full-frame Canon with the white lens? You know, the one in P-mode with no sense of composition and lacking even a basic understanding of what's happening when his presses the shutter? That's a point & shoot.

P&S is a state of mind.
That'll make it tricky for the P&S contests.

"Alright guys, new rules. We want you to go out there, set your cameras on auto-picture mode, and take oddly composed pictures of buildings, friends, and flowers. Make sure the lighting is terrible."
09-27-2011, 05:49 PM   #15
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 888
to me, if you can point and shoot it, its a point and shoot. so following that logic, my k-5 with an AF lens equipped and set to P mode with auto iso is a point and shoot.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, digital camera, pentax, pentax cameras, people, point and shoot, sensor, size
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Point & Shoot Contest #34 "A Helping Hand" ivoire Pentax Compact Cameras 29 10-13-2010 07:41 AM
Point and Shoot Contest #27: "Seasons" kyteflyer Pentax Compact Cameras 16 04-20-2010 08:07 PM
Point & Shoot Contest #25 - "Signs of religion" Bart Pentax Compact Cameras 20 12-03-2009 01:55 AM
Winners: Point & Shoot Contest #24 - "The Best View From My Place" rustynail925 Pentax Compact Cameras 7 10-26-2009 12:24 PM
Point & Shoot Contest #19 "Show off your corner of the world!" Bart Pentax Compact Cameras 24 06-03-2009 05:23 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:22 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top