I hope Pentax does mirrorless right...

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 06:24 AM

As I see it, no current mirrorless offering is really satisfactory:

- Sony seems to have created a real wonder of a camera with the NEX-7. But lenses are few and big (or bad). And the camera body lacks SR.
- m4/3 cameras have a better range of lenses, but the sensors are really underwhelming compared to the NEX-7 and NEX-5n.
- Samsung has IMHO a much more interesting lens lineup, e.g. the 30mm pancake seems like a very good lens. But again the sensors are underwhelming...

(I don't even count the Nikon 1 cameras or the Q here - they're not in the same league)

...SO I think there's still room for Pentax to make a APS-C mirrorless, if done right: A body much in the same vein as the NEX-7 (possibly with WR and/or SR) but with a much more interesting choice of small lenses, e.g. a more compact standard zoom than Sony offers and a couple of light, small primes, for instance a moderate WA (20-24), a "normal" (28-35) and a "portrait tele" (50-70).

(I don't know if it's possible.... but a compact K-adapter with built-in screw drive motor would of course also be great)

snappychappy · 10-11-2011, 06:27 AM

I think sony have raised the bar considerably with the A77, it looks a stunning piece of kit.

pxpaulx · 10-11-2011, 06:42 AM

I wouldn't technically call the A77 a mirrorless camera - it has a translucent mirror, and is the full/normal registration distance for their full sized dslr lenses. Sony's mirrorless segment is defined by the NEX lineup of cameras, with a shorter registration distance for the lenses, and a different (limited) lens lineup.

ogl · 10-11-2011, 06:53 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

As I see it, no current mirrorless offering is really satisfactory:

- Samsung has IMHO a much more interesting lens lineup, e.g. the 30mm pancake seems like a very good lens. But again the sensors are underwhelming...

(

NX20 has rather good sensor.

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by snappychappy

I think sony have raised the bar considerably with the A77, it looks a stunning piece of kit.

What exactly is the point of the A77? It offers no size advantage over OVF cameras, and the NEX-7 (and a possible Pentax K-3 with the same sensor) will beat it for IQ because of better high ISO performance and because there's a slight optical degradation too due to the translucent mirror.

I bet it's even noisier than the K-5. Almost all cameras with above-fingernail sensor sizes are. Edit: And it's larger than the K-5 in all three dimensions!

So what's the point? High speed shooting? Well maybe someone needs that. For me, even the K10D shoots faster than I need

The nicest thing I can say about the A77 is that it looks like my K10D

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by ogl

NX20 has rather good sensor.

Is it going to get a different sensor from the NX200? The high iso samples at dpreview look unimpressive.

Clavius · 10-11-2011, 07:51 AM

I hope Pentax doesn't do mirrorless at all. Ok maybe if it comes with a EVF. But mirrorless + liveview is dreadfull.

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 07:56 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

Ok maybe if it comes with a EVF.

That's why I think they should do something NEX-7-like. Anything that's SLR- or almost-SLR-size is better of with an OVF anyway.

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 08:00 AM

moved to "Pentax compact digital & film cameras"? Certainly not the right place (moderators, I sent you a message). True, no news or rumors in this thread, but also no "compact digital cameras", since they are implicitly small-sensor cameras with non-exchangeable lenses...

ogl · 10-11-2011, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

Is it going to get a different sensor from the NX200? The high iso samples at dpreview look unimpressive.

firmware 00.84 - ISO400 - very good
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/samsung-nx200-preview-samples

**boriscleto** · 10-11-2011, 09:04 AM - **1 Like**

octavmandru · 10-11-2011, 09:27 AM

These Brits have an ogl sense of humor...

Clavius · 10-11-2011, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by gazonk

That's why I think they should do something NEX-7-like. Anything that's SLR- or almost-SLR-size is better of with an OVF anyway.

I owned a NEX and utterly detested it.

Personally I hoped Pentax would go more the professional route. That is the route Ricoh hinted it was going and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will come through. After all, Ricoh's mainly a business-to-business company.

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I owned a NEX and utterly detested it.

Personally I hoped Pentax would go more the professional route.

I was talking about the NEX-7, not the NEX you owned

The NEX-7 is a very different beast, a photographer's camera. At least that's the impression I get e.g. from reading Sony NEX-7 First Impressions

gazonk · 10-11-2011, 11:40 AM

Hehe

But I don't think I'm flogging a dead horse here. All these discussions have steered in all funny directions. Also, there seems to be a widespread impression that Pentax is already too late to the game. What I'm trying to argue here, is that there is still room for a newcomer that manages to combine (1) a semi-pro body with an attractive rangefinder-like look (like the NEX-7), (2) APS-C size sensor with very good high iso performance and (3) some very attractive compact lenses. Currently all players fail on at least one of these requirements.

10-11-2011, 06:24 AM	#1
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	I hope Pentax does mirrorless right... As I see it, no current mirrorless offering is really satisfactory: - Sony seems to have created a real wonder of a camera with the NEX-7. But lenses are few and big (or bad). And the camera body lacks SR. - m4/3 cameras have a better range of lenses, but the sensors are really underwhelming compared to the NEX-7 and NEX-5n. - Samsung has IMHO a much more interesting lens lineup, e.g. the 30mm pancake seems like a very good lens. But again the sensors are underwhelming... (I don't even count the Nikon 1 cameras or the Q here - they're not in the same league) ...SO I think there's still room for Pentax to make a APS-C mirrorless, if done right: A body much in the same vein as the NEX-7 (possibly with WR and/or SR) but with a much more interesting choice of small lenses, e.g. a more compact standard zoom than Sony offers and a couple of light, small primes, for instance a moderate WA (20-24), a "normal" (28-35) and a "portrait tele" (50-70). (I don't know if it's possible.... but a compact K-adapter with built-in screw drive motor would of course also be great)

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10-11-2011, 06:27 AM	#2
snappychappy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Leeds Posts: 1,636	I think sony have raised the bar considerably with the A77, it looks a stunning piece of kit.

10-11-2011, 06:42 AM	#3
pxpaulx Veteran Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 2,867	I wouldn't technically call the A77 a mirrorless camera - it has a translucent mirror, and is the full/normal registration distance for their full sized dslr lenses. Sony's mirrorless segment is defined by the NEX lineup of cameras, with a shorter registration distance for the lenses, and a different (limited) lens lineup.

10-11-2011, 06:53 AM	#4
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by gazonk As I see it, no current mirrorless offering is really satisfactory: - Samsung has IMHO a much more interesting lens lineup, e.g. the 30mm pancake seems like a very good lens. But again the sensors are underwhelming... ( NX20 has rather good sensor.

10-11-2011, 07:19 AM	#5
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	Originally posted by snappychappy I think sony have raised the bar considerably with the A77, it looks a stunning piece of kit. What exactly is the point of the A77? It offers no size advantage over OVF cameras, and the NEX-7 (and a possible Pentax K-3 with the same sensor) will beat it for IQ because of better high ISO performance and because there's a slight optical degradation too due to the translucent mirror. I bet it's even noisier than the K-5. Almost all cameras with above-fingernail sensor sizes are. Edit: And it's larger than the K-5 in all three dimensions! So what's the point? High speed shooting? Well maybe someone needs that. For me, even the K10D shoots faster than I need The nicest thing I can say about the A77 is that it looks like my K10D

10-11-2011, 07:24 AM	#6
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	Originally posted by ogl NX20 has rather good sensor. Is it going to get a different sensor from the NX200? The high iso samples at dpreview look unimpressive.

10-11-2011, 07:51 AM	#7
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	I hope Pentax doesn't do mirrorless at all. Ok maybe if it comes with a EVF. But mirrorless + liveview is dreadfull.

10-11-2011, 07:56 AM	#8
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	Originally posted by Clavius Ok maybe if it comes with a EVF. That's why I think they should do something NEX-7-like. Anything that's SLR- or almost-SLR-size is better of with an OVF anyway.

10-11-2011, 08:00 AM	#9
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	moved to "Pentax compact digital & film cameras"? Certainly not the right place (moderators, I sent you a message). True, no news or rumors in this thread, but also no "compact digital cameras", since they are implicitly small-sensor cameras with non-exchangeable lenses...

10-11-2011, 08:34 AM	#10
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by gazonk Is it going to get a different sensor from the NX200? The high iso samples at dpreview look unimpressive. firmware 00.84 - ISO400 - very good http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/samsung-nx200-preview-samples

10-11-2011, 09:04 AM - 1 Like	#11
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,473

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10-11-2011, 09:27 AM	#12
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	These Brits have an ogl sense of humor...

10-11-2011, 11:20 AM	#13
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by gazonk That's why I think they should do something NEX-7-like. Anything that's SLR- or almost-SLR-size is better of with an OVF anyway. I owned a NEX and utterly detested it. Personally I hoped Pentax would go more the professional route. That is the route Ricoh hinted it was going and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will come through. After all, Ricoh's mainly a business-to-business company.

10-11-2011, 11:37 AM	#14
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	Originally posted by Clavius I owned a NEX and utterly detested it. Personally I hoped Pentax would go more the professional route. I was talking about the NEX-7, not the NEX you owned The NEX-7 is a very different beast, a photographer's camera. At least that's the impression I get e.g. from reading Sony NEX-7 First Impressions

10-11-2011, 11:40 AM	#15
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746 Original Poster	Hehe But I don't think I'm flogging a dead horse here. All these discussions have steered in all funny directions. Also, there seems to be a widespread impression that Pentax is already too late to the game. What I'm trying to argue here, is that there is still room for a newcomer that manages to combine (1) a semi-pro body with an attractive rangefinder-like look (like the NEX-7), (2) APS-C size sensor with very good high iso performance and (3) some very attractive compact lenses. Currently all players fail on at least one of these requirements.