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10-20-2011, 01:44 PM   #16
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Personally I think a new body and lens mount is what is needed. If you want to use the old glass, just buy an adapter. The Samsung NX20 is what I am waiting for. I want to see how the new 18MP sensor performs and the new 85mm f/1.4 lens.

10-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #17
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Well the problem is as a small camera company Pentax already has Q, K, 645 mount, and we don't have many lens for any of these mount, don't even mention the ones that are still in production. But at least for me, a big enough lenses collection, rather than a large collection of different bodies with limited lenses for each, is the factor that I would stay with this brand. Everybody knows that Canon sells dslr more than anybody, but how many mounts do they have currently?

I just don't see why some pentaxians still want pentax to have yet another mount!

If I am seeing Pentax releasing a new mount for the EVIL mirrorless, it will be the time I leave pentax.




QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Personally I think a new body and lens mount is what is needed. If you want to use the old glass, just buy an adapter. The Samsung NX20 is what I am waiting for. I want to see how the new 18MP sensor performs and the new 85mm f/1.4 lens.
10-20-2011, 03:12 PM   #18
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For me, my understanding of mirrorless is to make the current camera (DSLR) smaller but keep the same quality of image.
To make it smaller, you almost have to give up something. I love optical viewfinder, but it does take a lot of space. So to have a smaller camera, I can give it up. Same for the focus system. I can live with the slower contrast measurement autofocus system, as far as it really makes the camera body smaller. For the people who have to have optical viewfinder and phase detection, then go for it, stay with DSLR.

I don't quite get it when you say “I'm afraid the result will be in a mount with a registration distance only slightly shorter than for the K-mount”. Could you explain why do you think it can only be slightly shorter? I thought in theory such design allow the body to be as thin as one inch or less.

And why when a mirror is fixed then "a smaller registration distance will be required"? I think the point of my design is to keep the current registration distance, so people can use the current lenses and pentax can hopefully also restart those legendary lens, such as 85 1.4, 28-70 2.8, 80-200 2.8 etc. This could be new revenue for them, as they don't even need to spend the lens designing fee.

Thank you!

Feishui




QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Sorry, but there are issues with this approach.
1. the idea itself - that you need a certain registration distance; while telephoto lenses won't complain, we'll have the same issues as with SLRs for wides, i.e. they will have to be retrofocus instead of simpler, much smaller, cheaper and better optical designs.
2. the design looks similar with a regular SLR, with few changes:
- the mirror is fixed (a smaller registration distance will be required)
- the sensor plane is located in viewfinder's place
- there is no optical TTL viewfinder, no secondary mirror for off the sensor PD-AF, no SLR-like metering system
I'm afraid the result will be in a mount with a registration distance only slightly shorter than for the K-mount.

I am certain G1 and GH1 don't use anything like this.
10-21-2011, 05:31 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by feishui Quote
I am one of those who are fans of the idea of small APS-C mirrorless body.

I found many people are complaining about NEX's giant lens in a thin body, but obviously to achieve the standard flange distance, you have to have either a thin body with a big lens or a thick body. Another option is a collapsible design, while I have seen many people on this board concerning about the building quality of such a collapsible hinge.

Yet another option is to have a completely new lens designed, like what Samsung has done with their NX series. They have made new pancakes with shorter flange distance. But this also comes with two problems: 1. The old lenses of pentax are no longer usable, which is one of the major reasons many people still stay with Pentax. 2. The edge IQ could be a concern because the angle of the incoming light will have to be much smaller to really reduce the thick.

I am not sure if anyone has discussed about this idea before. This is my design: A new mirror was added to reflect all the light from the lens to the sensor. The body in theory can be made as thin as the height of the sensor, which is 15.7mm for a APS-C sensor, or 24mm for a full-frame sensor! (The current dslr design allows minimal body thickness to be 45.46 mm for pentax). If my design is really achievable, then with a pancake installed we can really put this camera into our jeans pocket.

I think the major concern will be the quality of the mirror. It must be of very high quality. No distortion, very limited absorption of light. I don't know much about the engineering of mirrors, but as mirror lens could be made in very cheap price, my guess is a mirror camera is also doable.

Let me know your thoughts
Old idea:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-news-rumors/129409-forthcoming-pen...ml#post1361411
through the viewfinder: AN EVIL MIRRORLESS THIN PENTAX K-MOUNT CAMERA WITH A MIRROR

10-21-2011, 09:42 AM   #20
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IMO a very fine bright frame optical viewfinder (a'la Leica) makes more sense.

A DSLR does not have an "optical viewfinder" per the usual use of that term.

The smaller the sensor and the shorter the focal length the more irrelevant auto-focus becomes. Leica M users typically prefocus accurately...by eye. The new lenses should have Leica-M style tabs to allow manual click-sensitive zone focus, like Voigtlander pancakes.

IMO it'd be nice if a new non-DSLR would accept my K20's autofocus lenses, I'd prefer new APS-C lenses that weren't DSLR registration distance...therefore even smaller than Leica M lenses.

DSLR design requires inferior optical design...many compromises to accomplish the registration distance.

Last edited by janosh; 10-21-2011 at 09:55 AM.
10-21-2011, 09:43 AM   #21
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...as well, who cares if older Pentax lenses work on newer designs? There are more new photographers than old ones (like me) and the newer lenses are far better than the older ones.
10-21-2011, 02:06 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by janosh Quote
...as well, who cares if older Pentax lenses work on newer designs? There are more new photographers than old ones (like me) and the newer lenses are far better than the older ones.
Maybe you don't know how often can pentax produce a new lens. Maybe around2-3 per year? If you want one more mount for pentex, then pentax will have 4 different mounts. So you may have 3 lenses to choose from for your "new designed" camera after you buy it for 5 years,

And I also don't buy it when you say " the newer lenses are far better than the older ones". Tell me which pentax lens you think is better than 31mm, which was produced 10 years ago.
12-28-2011, 10:46 AM   #23
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I know that this discussion had been going on for a while, and frankly the idea is not entirely new.

Minolta released their DiMAGE X point and shoot digital camera some years ago and they did exactly wthat many suggested here for mirrorles DSLR, tey made their lens vertical with the CCD at the bottom of the camera. I even heard that they got a patent for the "inovation", although I can not verify that.

Here is a picture of their design:

And the full review can be found at Minolta DiMAGE X Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

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