Point & Shoot Competition #50

Anton Magus · 02-01-2012, 11:18 PM

Congrats to Ivoire and the three winners. Good contest and worthy winners from a wide field of good submissions.

audiobomber · 02-02-2012, 11:57 AM

Congrats to the winners and thanks to Ivoire.

I didn't want to raise this before the contest was judged, but I would like to open this can of worms now:

Originally posted by ivoire

8. Post processing is fine.

I think heavy processing, (e.g. HDR, stitching), should be excluded from the contest. Heavy processing is not in line with "point & shoot" and overcomes the limitations of small sensors and fixed lenses.

unixrevolution · 02-02-2012, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by audiobomber

Congrats to the winners and thanks to Ivoire.

I didn't want to raise this before the contest was judged, but I would like to open this can of worms now:

I think heavy processing, (e.g. HDR, stitching), should be excluded from the contest. Heavy processing is not in line with "point & shoot" and overcomes the limitations of small sensors and fixed lenses.

I agree, somewhat, that the heavy processing is not in keeping with the spirit of Point and Shoot. Were it up to me, I'd say exposure adjustment, crop, and rotate are allowed, possibly color correction (correcting white balance), but nothing more. I have used these tools in the past to get a picture I took to become the picture I wanted to take, though the output was not terribly widely varied from what I saw in the finder. However, I don't really think HDR and panoramic stitching is in keeping with the "point and shoot" thing.

I would also allow in-camera post processing for digital cameras, since they tend to have some pretty neat tools built in, and it certainly isn't unreasonable to think someone might still consider it point and shoot if they just have to press a few buttons to get what they want right on the screen. I may be willing to extend this allowance for in-camera tools to in-camera HDR, and in-camera panoramic stitching and "Panorama sweep".

kyteflyer · 02-02-2012, 02:02 PM

Do we have a topic for the next contest?

ivoire · 02-02-2012, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by kyteflyer

Do we have a topic for the next contest?

Frission says contest 51 will be posted today.

the winner makes the rules. that is main perk of winning!

And once again, thanks to all of you for your participation and excellent entries. It is all of you that make this so much fun!

Anton Magus · 02-03-2012, 04:45 AM

Post Processing depend on what software is used. My simple, free, resizing program also automatically sharpens the image. Is that unfair?
Also I think it is fair to allow adjustment of the exposure and white balance, and cropping (obviously). Also conversion to black & white via post processing is fair.

As I see it the problem is where to draw the line.
Many images would benefit tremendously from a bit of noise reduction. Is that to be disallowed?

Images can often be enhanced by shooting at -1ev or even -2ev so the highlights are not blown out, and then rescuing the dark portions to restore a decent range of black and grey tones. Is that worse than some cameras which shoot exposure bracketed images and then combines them, in camera, to produce an HDR image?

One regular entrant likes to submit "old-style" images with a vignette. Is that a problem?

Is it fair to allow corrections and manipulation of the image "in camera" but to ban similar adjustments of the image via post processing? Like panorama mode versus panorama stitching.

This is potentially as wide a topic as "What is a Point & Shoot", and ultimately I think you have to allow any post processing, or specify no post processing beyond crop and resize.

Lets see what future judges decide...

unixrevolution · 02-03-2012, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by Anton Magus

Post Processing depend on what software is used. My simple, free, resizing program also automatically sharpens the image. Is that unfair?
Also I think it is fair to allow adjustment of the exposure and white balance, and cropping (obviously). Also conversion to black & white via post processing is fair.

As I see it the problem is where to draw the line.
Many images would benefit tremendously from a bit of noise reduction. Is that to be disallowed?

Images can often be enhanced by shooting at -1ev or even -2ev so the highlights are not blown out, and then rescuing the dark portions to restore a decent range of black and grey tones. Is that worse than some cameras which shoot exposure bracketed images and then combines them, in camera, to produce an HDR image?

One regular entrant likes to submit "old-style" images with a vignette. Is that a problem?

Is it fair to allow corrections and manipulation of the image "in camera" but to ban similar adjustments of the image via post processing? Like panorama mode versus panorama stitching.

This is potentially as wide a topic as "What is a Point & Shoot", and ultimately I think you have to allow any post processing, or specify no post processing beyond crop and resize.

Lets see what future judges decide...

It is, of course, up to the next judge, but I thought I'd offer my opinion anyway. I would be willing to allow in-camera editing even of things that I wouldn't allow out-of-camera simply because it better fits the style of point-and-shoot to me, since you can just tell the camera to do it while you're taking it, like most other camera modes. But my natural inclination is to allow only crop, resize, rotate, exposure and color balance tweaks. That said, in practice I'd probably allow all of it, since submitting HDR or a Pano stitch doesn't really give one an unfair advantage in a competition that's mainly about theme, composition, and light.

Laurentiu Cristofor · 02-03-2012, 08:55 AM

Oh, not another discussion about the contest rules!

ivoire · 02-03-2012, 09:46 AM

Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor

Oh, not another discussion about the contest rules!

Its the never ending quest for "Rule" perfection! Just make them ups as you win!

kyteflyer · 02-03-2012, 03:20 PM

If I ever win again, I'll be allowing post processing. If we were to disallow post processing, we also would have to disallow film, which, by its very nature, requires PP. choice of paper, chemicals, exposure time etc... all PP. It makes no sense to disallow it.

It doesn't matter if its P&S or not, IMO you can process as much or as little as you like, as long as the end result is still a photograph as opposed to a filter frenzy. I wouldn't even care if you use topaz or nik or any other number of the bazillion filter makers out there, as long as it still looks real. I hate HDR when overdone so do that at your peril. LOL.

Its the winner's decision. End of.

Bart · 02-04-2012, 02:12 AM

The winner sets the rules.
That's very simple and clear.

altopiet · 02-04-2012, 03:24 AM

Will my Sony Cyber-shot 3.2mp, and Canon PowerShot S40 qualify for use in this thread?

kyteflyer · 02-04-2012, 05:11 AM

Originally posted by altopiet

Will my Sony Cyber-shot 3.2mp, and Canon PowerShot S40 qualify for use in this thread?

Absolutely!!... well in the next competition (number 51)

altopiet · 02-04-2012, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by kyteflyer

Absolutely!!... well in the next competition (number 51)

Thanks kyteflyer

02-02-2012, 04:19 PM	#110
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381 Original Poster	Originally posted by kyteflyer Do we have a topic for the next contest? Frission says contest 51 will be posted today. the winner makes the rules. that is main perk of winning! And once again, thanks to all of you for your participation and excellent entries. It is all of you that make this so much fun! Last edited by ivoire; 02-03-2012 at 08:17 PM.

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02-01-2012, 11:18 PM	#106
Anton Magus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 410	Congrats to Ivoire and the three winners. Good contest and worthy winners from a wide field of good submissions.

02-02-2012, 11:57 AM	#107
audiobomber Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sudbury, Ontario Photos: Albums Posts: 6,806	Congrats to the winners and thanks to Ivoire. I didn't want to raise this before the contest was judged, but I would like to open this can of worms now: Originally posted by ivoire 8. Post processing is fine. I think heavy processing, (e.g. HDR, stitching), should be excluded from the contest. Heavy processing is not in line with "point & shoot" and overcomes the limitations of small sensors and fixed lenses.

02-02-2012, 01:54 PM	#108
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861	Originally posted by audiobomber Congrats to the winners and thanks to Ivoire. I didn't want to raise this before the contest was judged, but I would like to open this can of worms now: I think heavy processing, (e.g. HDR, stitching), should be excluded from the contest. Heavy processing is not in line with "point & shoot" and overcomes the limitations of small sensors and fixed lenses. I agree, somewhat, that the heavy processing is not in keeping with the spirit of Point and Shoot. Were it up to me, I'd say exposure adjustment, crop, and rotate are allowed, possibly color correction (correcting white balance), but nothing more. I have used these tools in the past to get a picture I took to become the picture I wanted to take, though the output was not terribly widely varied from what I saw in the finder. However, I don't really think HDR and panoramic stitching is in keeping with the "point and shoot" thing. I would also allow in-camera post processing for digital cameras, since they tend to have some pretty neat tools built in, and it certainly isn't unreasonable to think someone might still consider it point and shoot if they just have to press a few buttons to get what they want right on the screen. I may be willing to extend this allowance for in-camera tools to in-camera HDR, and in-camera panoramic stitching and "Panorama sweep".

02-02-2012, 02:02 PM	#109
kyteflyer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newcastle, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,444	Do we have a topic for the next contest?

02-03-2012, 04:45 AM	#111
Anton Magus Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Durban, South Africa Photos: Gallery Posts: 410	Post Processing depend on what software is used. My simple, free, resizing program also automatically sharpens the image. Is that unfair? Also I think it is fair to allow adjustment of the exposure and white balance, and cropping (obviously). Also conversion to black & white via post processing is fair. As I see it the problem is where to draw the line. Many images would benefit tremendously from a bit of noise reduction. Is that to be disallowed? Images can often be enhanced by shooting at -1ev or even -2ev so the highlights are not blown out, and then rescuing the dark portions to restore a decent range of black and grey tones. Is that worse than some cameras which shoot exposure bracketed images and then combines them, in camera, to produce an HDR image? One regular entrant likes to submit "old-style" images with a vignette. Is that a problem? Is it fair to allow corrections and manipulation of the image "in camera" but to ban similar adjustments of the image via post processing? Like panorama mode versus panorama stitching. This is potentially as wide a topic as "What is a Point & Shoot", and ultimately I think you have to allow any post processing, or specify no post processing beyond crop and resize. Lets see what future judges decide...

02-03-2012, 07:25 AM	#112
unixrevolution Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Waldorf, MD Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,861	Originally posted by Anton Magus Post Processing depend on what software is used. My simple, free, resizing program also automatically sharpens the image. Is that unfair? Also I think it is fair to allow adjustment of the exposure and white balance, and cropping (obviously). Also conversion to black & white via post processing is fair. As I see it the problem is where to draw the line. Many images would benefit tremendously from a bit of noise reduction. Is that to be disallowed? Images can often be enhanced by shooting at -1ev or even -2ev so the highlights are not blown out, and then rescuing the dark portions to restore a decent range of black and grey tones. Is that worse than some cameras which shoot exposure bracketed images and then combines them, in camera, to produce an HDR image? One regular entrant likes to submit "old-style" images with a vignette. Is that a problem? Is it fair to allow corrections and manipulation of the image "in camera" but to ban similar adjustments of the image via post processing? Like panorama mode versus panorama stitching. This is potentially as wide a topic as "What is a Point & Shoot", and ultimately I think you have to allow any post processing, or specify no post processing beyond crop and resize. Lets see what future judges decide... It is, of course, up to the next judge, but I thought I'd offer my opinion anyway. I would be willing to allow in-camera editing even of things that I wouldn't allow out-of-camera simply because it better fits the style of point-and-shoot to me, since you can just tell the camera to do it while you're taking it, like most other camera modes. But my natural inclination is to allow only crop, resize, rotate, exposure and color balance tweaks. That said, in practice I'd probably allow all of it, since submitting HDR or a Pano stitch doesn't really give one an unfair advantage in a competition that's mainly about theme, composition, and light.

02-03-2012, 08:55 AM	#113
Laurentiu Cristofor Banned Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: WA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,055	Oh, not another discussion about the contest rules!

02-03-2012, 09:46 AM	#114
ivoire Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,381 Original Poster	Originally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Oh, not another discussion about the contest rules! Its the never ending quest for "Rule" perfection! Just make them ups as you win!

02-03-2012, 03:20 PM	#115
kyteflyer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newcastle, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,444	If I ever win again, I'll be allowing post processing. If we were to disallow post processing, we also would have to disallow film, which, by its very nature, requires PP. choice of paper, chemicals, exposure time etc... all PP. It makes no sense to disallow it. It doesn't matter if its P&S or not, IMO you can process as much or as little as you like, as long as the end result is still a photograph as opposed to a filter frenzy. I wouldn't even care if you use topaz or nik or any other number of the bazillion filter makers out there, as long as it still looks real. I hate HDR when overdone so do that at your peril. LOL. Its the winner's decision. End of.

02-04-2012, 02:12 AM	#116
Bart Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: WW community of Pentax users Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,646	The winner sets the rules. That's very simple and clear.

02-04-2012, 03:24 AM	#117
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Will my Sony Cyber-shot 3.2mp, and Canon PowerShot S40 qualify for use in this thread?

02-04-2012, 05:11 AM	#118
kyteflyer Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newcastle, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,444	Originally posted by altopiet Will my Sony Cyber-shot 3.2mp, and Canon PowerShot S40 qualify for use in this thread? Absolutely!!... well in the next competition (number 51)

02-04-2012, 05:26 AM	#119
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by kyteflyer Absolutely!!... well in the next competition (number 51) Thanks kyteflyer