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08-20-2018, 07:49 AM   #1
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Grii, xf10, griii

I really want a high quality pocketable camera for street and casual shooting, so that it can be on me at all times. Having the K3II with me is just not an option, particularly at work.


The obvious choice right now is between the GRII and the XF10, but obviously the GRIII is potentially either very close or not, and I assume we will only know either way at photokina.

I also think the Panasonic LX100 is a viable option with that lovely Leica Lens, although the 4/3 sensor is a bit of a downer compared to the others. The Leica D-Lux is the same camera I believe, except with a red dot, but I guess it should be in the mix.


I like the controls of the GRII, but the sensor is old and doesn't stand up well to the XF10's. The XF10 is good looking, cheaper, and has the control as long as the touchscreen is good and quick to use. The LX100 might work at the right price and it would be the first Leica lens I owned. The Leica itself is cool, but I'm not that much of a fashion victim to pay the premium I don't think.

If the GRIII was a) more certainly coming soon and b) was promised to have a new sensor with better ISO performance and PDAF then I'd probably wait for that...or maybe waiting for that to arrive before getting the GRII in a clearance is best. It's a very popular street camera already after all...

Does anybody have any thoughts?

---------- Post added 08-20-18 at 07:50 AM ----------

Oohh...the forum changed my subject line to sentence case!

08-20-2018, 09:25 AM   #2
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I was looking to do exactly what you are describing and was looking at the GRII and LX100 also. I ended up buying an a6000. It's not quite as small, but it has fit the bill. Fits into my messenger bag that goes to the office etc. Also snagged the 55-210 zoom that is often bundled with it. Decided I wanted to have more flexibility on the lens side. Of course, I've since grabbed a Q-S1, and it's more capable than I had expected. Now I have to pick the a6000 or Q-S1. Still different creatures, and they both seem to have their place.
08-20-2018, 09:39 AM   #3
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If you want pocketable and would be happy with a fixed prime lens, the Ricoh GR and GRII has much to commend it, 16 mp aps-c sensor and a sharp 28mm equivalent lens. With a small optical viewfinder attached, it's a good alternative to carrying a DSLR around all day. True one handed operation makes it much preferable to any cell phone camera.

I have decided waiting for the next Ricoh release, be that Pentax camera, lens or Ricoh GR is not a good policy. You can always trade up if a new GR III eventually arrives.
08-20-2018, 09:49 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
I ended up buying an a6000. It's not quite as small, but it has fit the bill.
While it's a great camera, I'm going to steer away from another ILC because I don't need any more GAS! And it definitely needs to be pocketable - if it requires a bag it will get left at home too often.

---------- Post added 08-20-18 at 09:54 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ronniemac Quote
If you want pocketable and would be happy with a fixed prime lens, the Ricoh GR and GRII has much to commend it, 16 mp aps-c sensor and a sharp 28mm equivalent lens. With a small optical viewfinder attached, it's a good alternative to carrying a DSLR around all day. True one handed operation makes it much preferable to any cell phone camera.

I have decided waiting for the next Ricoh release, be that Pentax camera, lens or Ricoh GR is not a good policy. You can always trade up if a new GR III eventually arrives.
Definitely happy with a fixed prime. That would be a positive for me rather than a negative. That sensor is really the only thing holding me back though. If it was just GRII or GRIII I would definitely buy now, but the XF10 has upset the applecart somewhat. Much the same idea as the GR, but with a far superior sensor and a lower price...the biggest sacrifice is physical controls for a touchscreen instead.

08-20-2018, 10:53 AM   #5
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GR sensor is fine, in B&W up to ISO 16000 is usable and detailed enough. The lens on that thing is amazing!



(@ f/2.8, ISO12800, 1/125s)
08-20-2018, 11:20 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
While it's a great camera, I'm going to steer away from another ILC because I don't need any more GAS! And it definitely needs to be pocketable - if it requires a bag it will get left at home too often.
Yep, right with you on this. I'm actually still drooling for what I think the GRIII will be. Part of snagging the Q-S1 is that while the a6000 is great, sometimes it's more than I want to lug, even if it's going in that #@$! bag that I always seem to have in tow when I leave the house. What happened to the days of just grabbing keys and a wallet? Curious to see where you land on this. I would probably have bought a GRII if it weren't for the feeling that's it's replacement must be around a corner not too far off.
08-20-2018, 02:02 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pen-A Quote
GR sensor is fine
That's a great image and I'd say 80%+ of images would end up B&W with me and I'm not afraid to use NR if necessary - more pixels and low-light ability would really clinch it though. I guess I just know how annoyed I'd be if the GRIII came out in the next month with (say) the K3 sensor or even the KP sensor - that would hurt!

The more I look, the more I'm convinced by the Ricoh over the Fuji though. I just need to decide to buy the II now, or wait it out a couple of months (or years) and buy a III, or buy now and upgrade, or what.
08-20-2018, 02:55 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
... high quality pocketable camera for street and casual shooting ... the [GR2] sensor is old and doesn't stand up well to the XF10 ...
Yes, the GR sensor is older. IMO it still more than adequate for street and casual shooting (plus landscape, semi-macro, and many other things). Of course I wouldn't mind an update that handled high ISO better though I don't see a need for 24mp with a handheld, non-stabilized camera. There might not be enough space in such a compact body to stabilize an APS-C sensor.

I have the older GR but I think it's the same sensor as GR2. In daylight I have zero concerns about the sensor. It's a near-perfect camera for street photography. I love the 3 user modes, TAv, snap focus, and other customization that's available. The lens is very sharp. The XF10 can't be customized as well (based on the body design, and what I've read in specs and previews).

Street photography in dim light gets tricky with any camera. You can't slow the shutter too much with moving subjects (unless you want artistic motion blur in every photo). My personal preference is to convert to B&W if I have to take the GR to ISO 3200 or beyond. Here are 2 samples of the GR. #1 is ISO 10,000 that shows how B&W (done in LR, not SOOC) works at night. #2 is ISO 1000, overcast daylight but I needed high ISO for a fast shutter speed to stop motion. Not bad for an obsolete sensor.




08-22-2018, 04:14 AM   #9
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Well...to complicate things, Panasonic has announced the LX100 II today. It's a quite major refresh, with some cool new features (17MP, low-pass filter removed, 30fps shooting (8MP only), in-camera retouching, and more) - however, they have also made the decision a little easier by increasing the price significantly...about 850 in GBP and probably similar in USD.
08-22-2018, 06:32 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
I really want a high quality pocketable camera for street and casual shooting, so that it can be on me at all times. Having the K3II with me is just not an option, particularly at work.


The obvious choice right now is between the GRII and the XF10, but obviously the GRIII is potentially either very close or not, and I assume we will only know either way at photokina.

I also think the Panasonic LX100 is a viable option with that lovely Leica Lens, although the 4/3 sensor is a bit of a downer compared to the others. The Leica D-Lux is the same camera I believe, except with a red dot, but I guess it should be in the mix.


I like the controls of the GRII, but the sensor is old and doesn't stand up well to the XF10's. The XF10 is good looking, cheaper, and has the control as long as the touchscreen is good and quick to use. The LX100 might work at the right price and it would be the first Leica lens I owned. The Leica itself is cool, but I'm not that much of a fashion victim to pay the premium I don't think.

If the GRIII was a) more certainly coming soon and b) was promised to have a new sensor with better ISO performance and PDAF then I'd probably wait for that...or maybe waiting for that to arrive before getting the GRII in a clearance is best. It's a very popular street camera already after all...

Does anybody have any thoughts?

---------- Post added 08-20-18 at 07:50 AM ----------

Oohh...the forum changed my subject line to sentence case!
I'm eagerly waiting for a new GRiii
08-22-2018, 07:44 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mbaez Quote
I'm eagerly waiting for a new GRiii
Do you feel it's coming soon (like this year) or just that you'll get it whenever it arrives?
08-27-2018, 07:00 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by victormeldrew Quote
Do you feel it's coming soon (like this year) or just that you'll get it whenever it arrives?
The latter.
08-29-2018, 08:00 AM   #13
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Here is another one waiting eagerly. I think it might come after an APS-C flagship with new processor and sensor. But, please, they should just keep that amazing lens!
09-06-2018, 10:29 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by clickclick Quote
. . . I've since grabbed a Q-S1, and it's more capable than I had expected. Now I have to pick the a6000 or Q-S1. Still different creatures, and they both seem to have their place.
I'd replace my GRi any day with a Q-S1 if it had a fixed and collapsible lens:
Small size, satisfyingly tactile buttons, plenty room to tweak color filters for jpegs, workable raw files and all the multi-exposure modes, just naming few.
That would be my GR-three.
3 Days Ago   #15
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Things have moved on a bit with more info available for the GRIII (24Mp stabilised sensor), I have the GR and have no plans to change it. My DSLR is a K-5 so I don't really know whether 16 or 24 Mp makes a big difference (particularly in a small compact camera) - but I know some at least initially preferred the low-light capabilities of the K-5 over the K-3 (bigger pixels collect more light etc.).

It's not just about the sensor though, the rest of the camera is also important - now more is known about the GRIII (and being used to my GR) I'm not sure I'd get on with some of the changes:
a) missing flash - not that I can remember using it
b) missing the ISO adjust lever (mentioned in some posts in here somewhere), but I'd probably get used to a new interface.

I do like the idea of IBIS, dust removal (not that I've had dust issues in my GR) and the option for AA simulation - but can't justify the extra expense when the GR is so good anyway.

John.
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