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03-02-2009, 11:55 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
Robin, this is unavoidable in order to a) keep prices down, and most of all b) manage that huge zoom range.
I understand this, but even for snapshots would gladly exchange some of the zoom range (total overkill IMO) for a better image. Furthermore, this would differentiate this camera from those already on the market. Like I said, even the Fuji F10 has a sensor 150% the size of this one.

Do consumers notice this? Yes, some do. Especially if marketed correctly.

I don't want to be misunderstood as one of those people who complains that Pentax is getting into new markets and serving other needs than my own. But if they do so, I prefer that they are successful. Does this camera have any killer features to compete in the crowded bridge market?

03-02-2009, 12:03 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by skid2964 Quote
I beat him to it in this very thread -- though Miriya aced me with the Japanese specs I landed the English ones.

Something to do with my sleep patterns.
03-03-2009, 06:13 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
I understand this, but even for snapshots would gladly exchange some of the zoom range (total overkill IMO) for a better image. Furthermore, this would differentiate this camera from those already on the market. Like I said, even the Fuji F10 has a sensor 150% the size of this one.
Robin, I suspect that the super (mega) zoom magnification is like the megapixels race of a few years ago. These cameras started out with 8x zoom or something like that, and every year somebody brought out a longer one. I think 24x is the current maximum. Like with the megapixels, it doesn't matter whether images are better or not, it's all about having the highest number on the camera.

QuoteQuote:
Do consumers notice this? Yes, some do. Especially if marketed correctly.
I think Pentax doesn't want to sell this camera to "some" consumers. The fact that this is a rebadged OEM camera tells me that they just want to make some easy money. It makes complete sense to me.

But yes, in an ideal world, I agree with you that I would also have preferred that they actually design this camera themselves and that they would have made it stand out from the crowd in some way.
03-03-2009, 07:51 AM   #19
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Re-badged?

QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
... The fact that this is a rebadged OEM camera tells me that they just want to make some easy money. It makes complete sense to me ...
Are you saying that Pentax doesn't actually build this camera? If so, who does? If it is rebadged from someone else's camera, there should be another camera out there that is nearly identical, like the relationship between the Pentax K20D and the Samsung GX20.

BTW, is that a focus-assist lamp on the front? I didn't read anything in the specs about it. Or did I miss something?

03-03-2009, 09:31 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
Are you saying that Pentax doesn't actually build this camera? If so, who does? If it is rebadged from someone else's camera, there should be another camera out there that is nearly identical, like the relationship between the Pentax K20D and the Samsung GX20.
Have a look at the specs of the Nikon Coolpix P90, and of the Kodak Easyshare Z980, especially the lens & sensor
03-03-2009, 10:33 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
That's what I don't get with these "super zooms" in general. The long end of their range might be fun for e.g. birding, but you need extremely good light conditions in order to freeze the motions of birds at an ISO which still gives good results with this camera (which I assume is ISO 200 - maybe ISO 400 if you're aiming for small prints or the web).
Well, a bridge camera wouldn't be my first choice to try and catch birds in motion, anyway, (smaller birds that otherwise wouldn't come near to filling the frame somewhat closer, though, I've had a little success there, depite the baneful lag) ....but you'd be surprised how often you might find yourself at a long length with one of these types of cameras: you think somewhat differently than you would with an SLR of that magnification. (My Lumix does a 35-435 equivalent, or something like that, and I don't know where the long end just starts getting really gratuitious, but I figure it may as well be there as long as it's not hurting anything.)

Sometimes you find an interesting angle, and a bridge cam is very handy to scout ahead a bit: zoom in on distant street signs, or anything you'd rather not walk or climb all the way to just to find out what it is, and you can see on the LCD.

I think the genre actually has a lot of potential, if they can be made faster. Then there might even be some room for a bigger sensor combined with a less-ambitious zoom range. There's obviously plenty of room for improvement, which I'm sure is ongoing in some ways, but even for more 'serious' types, there's a potential spot for em: they put a lot of flexibility in a small space and weigh nothing significant. I enjoyed being able to comfortably carry my Mamiya and bigger meter, along with my Lumix, all in my small bag.


On the 'who makes this thing,' it does appear rather as though it's at least on the same platform, (or at least share some parts or technology, possibly from a third party that makes our designs certain things non-exclusively,) as some other brands, though I think a lot of them have come to look about the same because the design works pretty nice, anyway. There are more differences in the Pentax, though, than just sticking a different label on, from what people say (and the cases and such aren't quite identical n certain shapes and dimensions, : this may be a transitional model and maybe fundraiser toward Pentax putting out something with a bit more of an individual spin on it. I don't care too much about whether or not a screen's articulated, but it's something an outdoorsey crowd might really like in something, say, weather-sealed. This model looks to be pretty simplified all around.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-03-2009 at 11:28 AM.
03-03-2009, 02:45 PM   #22
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X70 Video

here you go, check out the new Pentax P&S

YouTube - Pentax x70 at Sneak Peek by Imaging Insider

YouTube - [No-Edit PMA 09] Pentax X70 at the digital focus
03-03-2009, 03:00 PM   #23
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Tamron is quite a big developer and manufacturer of P&S optics. Maybe they're the ones behind this whole lens thing.

03-03-2009, 03:14 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
lithium-ion battery with 170 shot life
Does this seem like a low amount of shots per battery change? Seems a little restrictive for travelling.
03-03-2009, 04:53 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by scatron Quote
Does this seem like a low amount of shots per battery change? Seems a little restrictive for travelling.
It does sound low, at that, but keep in mind there's a lot of power-sucking things you don't have to use, like the popup flash and lots of LCD screen use: in practice, these types of cameras will tend to deliver a lot more than that, and the batteries and chargers themselves are a lot smaller than your DSLR's will be. I don't recall how my Lumix was rated, but the only one who ever ran the battery down all the way to a warning was actually a ten-year old accomplice of mine running around a social event with it loosening people up and distracting them for me, snapping flash shots of everything and everybody.... and that didn't even start with a full charge.

I'd expect this kind of battery performance to be pretty similar with most brands. Presumably it takes more power to push the extra megapixels and stuff, but the hard part with traveling, is in general remembering to actually bring the spare and charger. Even for likely- busy days, I got out of the habit of carrying one. One in the camera, one in the charger: I'd just swap and plug the charger in every few days and not worry about it.

(Technically, I think I ought to get in the habit of bringing a spare for the K20d more often: my Lumix actually created a bad habit of not expecting to need more memory or a spare battery out there. Mentally-filed under 'Maintenance' rather than 'Expendables' where battery charge probably ought to be. )
03-03-2009, 10:16 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mystic Quote
Thank you for posting these links. I think Pentax offering a bridge camera is a great idea. There are many people that just don't want to be bothered with a dslr. I bought my sister a panasonic fz28 for Christmas and she loves it. She was using my old panasonic fz20 (a really great classic cam of its time). There is a lot to be said for having a long zoom range in a lightweight camera. Street shooting takes on a whole new dimension. Folks don't even know you're zoomed in on them with these cameras.
03-03-2009, 11:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by noblepa Quote
Are you saying that Pentax doesn't actually build this camera? If so, who does? If it is rebadged from someone else's camera, there should be another camera out there that is nearly identical, like the relationship between the Pentax K20D and the Samsung GX20.
I would, frankly, be surprised if any manufacturer made all of their consumer models themselves. Maybe Canon, but they've got the money for it.

China can do pretty much anything...and they make probably 90% of what goes into your average DSLR.

The relationship between this camera and the Nikon or Kodak ones would not be as close as the K20D with GX20, of course, certainly not in marketing terms, but close.

What happened, I'll bet, is this. Nikon (or whoever) sees that the Shenzhou People's Camera & Bottle Factory No. 12 is cranking out a halfway decent camera. Nikon, realising it's good enough for consumers, buy a shedload of these and rebadges them as Nikons. Sells them.

Pentax (or whoever) sees that Nikon is buying a decent camera from the Chinese and wants to edge in on the market, as well. So Pentax buys some as well, rebadges, etc.

You may be wondering why the deal's not exclusively with Nikon. Simple. No single Chinese factory is gonna limit itself to just one customer. And no consumer is gonna bother researching it, probably. Chinese are smart like that. They know that no Westerner's gonna buy a camera labelled the People's Camera & Bottle Factory No. 12 CC-120.

The danger is for Pentax is that a buyer walks into the camera store, and has a choice between two identical cameras: the X70 and the P90. Are they gonna choose the one made by the brand pro's use, or the Pentax? Decisions, decisions.

What sparked me is that while the X70's a reasonably high-end camera, it's lens is only a "Pentax" lens. Not an "SMC Pentax".

It's like how Pentax buys and rebadges its SLR lenses from Tokina these days (no really, they do. It's obvious.) Actually, I suppose a better description would be that it's like how Schneider puts its name on Pentax lenses for Samsung.
03-04-2009, 01:31 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by lithos Quote
I would, frankly, be surprised if any manufacturer made all of their consumer models themselves. Maybe Canon, but they've got the money for it.

China can do pretty much anything...and they make probably 90% of what goes into your average DSLR.

The relationship between this camera and the Nikon or Kodak ones would not be as close as the K20D with GX20, of course, certainly not in marketing terms, but close.

What happened, I'll bet, is this. Nikon (or whoever) sees that the Shenzhou People's Camera & Bottle Factory No. 12 is cranking out a halfway decent camera. Nikon, realising it's good enough for consumers, buy a shedload of these and rebadges them as Nikons. Sells them.

Pentax (or whoever) sees that Nikon is buying a decent camera from the Chinese and wants to edge in on the market, as well. So Pentax buys some as well, rebadges, etc.

You may be wondering why the deal's not exclusively with Nikon. Simple. No single Chinese factory is gonna limit itself to just one customer. And no consumer is gonna bother researching it, probably. Chinese are smart like that. They know that no Westerner's gonna buy a camera labelled the People's Camera & Bottle Factory No. 12 CC-120.

The danger is for Pentax is that a buyer walks into the camera store, and has a choice between two identical cameras: the X70 and the P90. Are they gonna choose the one made by the brand pro's use, or the Pentax? Decisions, decisions.

What sparked me is that while the X70's a reasonably high-end camera, it's lens is only a "Pentax" lens. Not an "SMC Pentax".

It's like how Pentax buys and rebadges its SLR lenses from Tokina these days (no really, they do. It's obvious.) Actually, I suppose a better description would be that it's like how Schneider puts its name on Pentax lenses for Samsung.
Its sad that this is so true.

I thought that Hoya was anouncing that Pentax was going to become the "water proof niche player for the savy advanced amatuer".

To me this is just another bridge camera that is lost in a sea of other bridge cameras.

I expect Pentax does not have the cash and resorces to develope their own bridge, and so we get a camera like this one.

I wish Pentax had the resorces to REALLY make a product that fit with their prior statments. If they want to make a bridge camera, then make it interesting. Kind of like their latest slogan. Don't just rebadge some semi generic bridge.

Give it the Pentax feel. Give the camera features that define it as a Pentax.

How about:

* SMC lens (as previously mentioned). What is Pentax without their great lenses and coatings? Market this!

* Where is the sealed body? I thought Pentax was to become the camera for the outdoors?

* Green Button. EVERY pentax should have this. P&S all the way to the top DSLR. Simple. efective. unique. If you never used it you will never understand.

* Dual e-dials. Again every Pentax from the bridge camera to the top DSLR should have this. It would bring that Pentax handling to all of the product line.

* Hyper-Program. Why have dual e-dials and no hyper-program? Again, it is all about the Pentax feel. If you have Hyper-program would you ever want to go back?

* Full control of ISO, TV, and AV at all times, and the info displayed in the view finder.

These are just some ideas. I expect there are more. The point I am trying to make is that Pentax needs to get noticed in the market. Pentax needs to have unique features that only Pentax brings to the table. These are the features you want people to look for when they pick up a pentax. These are the features that the bridge camera user is looking for when they move up to a DSLR. They are also some of the features that a Pentax DSLR user would apreciate if they bought a Pentax bridge camera.

Just some of my ramblings. Your millage may vary.
03-04-2009, 04:16 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
I thought that Hoya was anouncing that Pentax was going to become the "water proof niche player for the savy advanced amatuer".

To me this is just another bridge camera that is lost in a sea of other bridge cameras.

I expect Pentax does not have the cash and resorces to develope their own bridge, and so we get a camera like this one.

These are just some ideas. I expect there are more. The point I am trying to make is that Pentax needs to get noticed in the market. Pentax needs to have unique features that only Pentax brings to the table. These are the features you want people to look for when they pick up a pentax. These are the features that the bridge camera user is looking for when they move up to a DSLR. They are also some of the features that a Pentax DSLR user would apreciate if they bought a Pentax bridge camera.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, I don't think this was a long, tough decision that Pentax thought over for weeks. I think was more that someone pointed out there were these cameras available, and some Pentax manager said "Sure. Why not?"

What I am worried about is that Pentax seems to be content in...well, it's mediocrity. It doesn't release anything really spectacular, seems quites content with being behind Canon, Nikon, Olympus and Sony.

Thing is, I'm hoping that Hoya reinvigorates the brand, rather than taking a "We'll see..." attitude.

But, true, I don't think Pentax has the cash to do anything spectacular. Which really worries me.
03-04-2009, 05:16 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
I think 24x is the current maximum.
Unfortunately not, the new Olympus (SP590?) sports a 26x zoom, so even playing the pointless numbers marketing game this Pentax bridge camera is already losing out.

QuoteOriginally posted by Miserere Quote
Like with the megapixels, it doesn't matter whether images are better or not, it's all about having the highest number on the camera.
Sadly true
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