Thoughts on prosumer compact...

nostatic · 08-08-2009, 08:48 AM

I currently have DLux4, E-P1 and K20d. They are all different cameras that serve different purposes. I find the DLux4 to give quite nice files and I've printed at 20x30 with it (and previous DLux3). The 24-60 f2-2.8 lens is great for low light and I find iso 1600 usable, but I am fine with noise as long as it looks somewhat like film grain.

E-P1 is the latest add and I'm loving shooting it. It is significantly bigger and heavier than the DLux4 but you get a much "better" file. I mostly shoot with the 17/2.8 pancake and that makes for a nice small setup though the 14-42 zoom is pretty good as well and has a neat stowing function to make it more compact. I find AF workable (on par with a p&s) and again I really like hi iso files on this because they get a very good "grain" look.

The K20d is for when I want max resolution and a "smooth" file. Plus the FA ltd primes just give a great look, and the 50-135* is a damn near perfect lens. But make no mistake, if I pixel peep I can tell the difference between all three camera's files. And even at screen resolution I can usually tell the difference but more because they have a different look rather than because of inherent lack of quality. There is no free lunch though...if you push a small sensor file around it'll start to fall off.

ktwse · 08-14-2009, 04:57 PM

Thought I'd chime in with my 5¢ as well...

I have been toying with the idea of replacing or complementing the DSLR with a prosumer camera for a long time. What you need to consider is whether you can give up the following (if replacing):

- Fast AF, no compact comes even close
- High ISO performance (and to a lesser degree DR)
- Full focal range flexibility
- Rapid continuous shooting (any DSLR will be faster)

When it comes to control and handling, there are options that will be very similar, and provided you stick to the lowest ISO settings, IQ will generally be very good, if not as good on a pixel peeping level.

With all of that said, I have settled for a K-7 with a few DA Limiteds as my "main" camera and a Ricoh GX200 for underwater photography and for those situations when a DSLR is too much.

Given the lacklustre reviews of the DP1 and the fact that it basically has a 28 mm prime welded to it, I probably wouldn't go for that unless you're determined to use just this focal length. The Ricoh, Panny LX3 and Canon G10 are much better options. The Sigma (FOVEON) sensor sounds compelling, but based on real world results, it doesn't seem all that much better than smaller sensors typically found in the prosumer compacts (~1/1.7").

Now, the fun thing about Ricohs is that they're basically the best kept secrets in the camera world. For anyone used to Pentax DSLRs, they'll feel like the baby brothers to these cameras. Handling is exceptional, both in terms of buttons available and their layout as well as the vast amount of customizable functions. Build quality is impeccable, and the lenses are very good. The one area where they're better by the competition is high ISO noise - honestly, they're terrible from ISO 400 and up.

The good thing is that the recently announced GRDIII seems to take a huge step forward in this regard, offering the great handling Ricoh users have always been spoilt with and an IQ across the ISO range to match it (seems to be far better than eg the Canon G10 at high ISO).

If you're serious about moving to a compact only solution, I'd hold off for another six months and wait to see what the expected GX300 has to offer. The GX200 - the camera I use - has a great 24-72mm lens with optional add-on lenses that can bring it to 19mm and 135mm respectively. Combined with the handling, build quality and size, it's probably the most compelling packaged I've ever used, bar none. The only flaw is the high ISO noise.

(The GX200 has a burst mode which allows you to shoot up to five continuous shots at about 1.5 FPS, and a snap AF mode which means instant shots without the typical focus lag of compacts, so it's much faster than what we've come to expect of compacts.)

Thomas

asw66 · 08-20-2009, 07:51 AM

FWIW, I really like the look of the S90 that Canon have just announced.

08-20-2009, 07:51 AM	#18
asw66 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 347	New Canons FWIW, I really like the look of the S90 that Canon have just announced.

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08-08-2009, 08:48 AM	#16
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	I currently have DLux4, E-P1 and K20d. They are all different cameras that serve different purposes. I find the DLux4 to give quite nice files and I've printed at 20x30 with it (and previous DLux3). The 24-60 f2-2.8 lens is great for low light and I find iso 1600 usable, but I am fine with noise as long as it looks somewhat like film grain. E-P1 is the latest add and I'm loving shooting it. It is significantly bigger and heavier than the DLux4 but you get a much "better" file. I mostly shoot with the 17/2.8 pancake and that makes for a nice small setup though the 14-42 zoom is pretty good as well and has a neat stowing function to make it more compact. I find AF workable (on par with a p&s) and again I really like hi iso files on this because they get a very good "grain" look. The K20d is for when I want max resolution and a "smooth" file. Plus the FA ltd primes just give a great look, and the 50-135* is a damn near perfect lens. But make no mistake, if I pixel peep I can tell the difference between all three camera's files. And even at screen resolution I can usually tell the difference but more because they have a different look rather than because of inherent lack of quality. There is no free lunch though...if you push a small sensor file around it'll start to fall off.

08-14-2009, 04:57 PM	#17
ktwse Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 57	Thought I'd chime in with my 5¢ as well... I have been toying with the idea of replacing or complementing the DSLR with a prosumer camera for a long time. What you need to consider is whether you can give up the following (if replacing): - Fast AF, no compact comes even close - High ISO performance (and to a lesser degree DR) - Full focal range flexibility - Rapid continuous shooting (any DSLR will be faster) When it comes to control and handling, there are options that will be very similar, and provided you stick to the lowest ISO settings, IQ will generally be very good, if not as good on a pixel peeping level. With all of that said, I have settled for a K-7 with a few DA Limiteds as my "main" camera and a Ricoh GX200 for underwater photography and for those situations when a DSLR is too much. Given the lacklustre reviews of the DP1 and the fact that it basically has a 28 mm prime welded to it, I probably wouldn't go for that unless you're determined to use just this focal length. The Ricoh, Panny LX3 and Canon G10 are much better options. The Sigma (FOVEON) sensor sounds compelling, but based on real world results, it doesn't seem all that much better than smaller sensors typically found in the prosumer compacts (~1/1.7"). Now, the fun thing about Ricohs is that they're basically the best kept secrets in the camera world. For anyone used to Pentax DSLRs, they'll feel like the baby brothers to these cameras. Handling is exceptional, both in terms of buttons available and their layout as well as the vast amount of customizable functions. Build quality is impeccable, and the lenses are very good. The one area where they're better by the competition is high ISO noise - honestly, they're terrible from ISO 400 and up. The good thing is that the recently announced GRDIII seems to take a huge step forward in this regard, offering the great handling Ricoh users have always been spoilt with and an IQ across the ISO range to match it (seems to be far better than eg the Canon G10 at high ISO). If you're serious about moving to a compact only solution, I'd hold off for another six months and wait to see what the expected GX300 has to offer. The GX200 - the camera I use - has a great 24-72mm lens with optional add-on lenses that can bring it to 19mm and 135mm respectively. Combined with the handling, build quality and size, it's probably the most compelling packaged I've ever used, bar none. The only flaw is the high ISO noise. (The GX200 has a burst mode which allows you to shoot up to five continuous shots at about 1.5 FPS, and a snap AF mode which means instant shots without the typical focus lag of compacts, so it's much faster than what we've come to expect of compacts.) Thomas