W80 on dpreview :-(

wll · 07-23-2009, 03:03 AM

dpreview re-did their test on underwater cameras, and their findings did not make me to happy.

wll

emr · 07-23-2009, 07:33 AM

I agree. After the original test I was thinking that W80 with better video could be a great purchase.

'Waterproof' Camera Group Test (Q2 2009) Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

Quote:

Summary

When trying to update the W60 Pentax improved the HD video frame rate to 30 fps, and increased the resolution of the sensor. While the first makes the video mode more usable, the second has introduced more noise especially at high ISO settings. If you find the wide 5x zoom lens, and feature set of the Pentax an attractive proposition, then the W60 is a better choice than the W80 despite the slower HD video frame rate.

* We like: Compact design, good colors and exposure, versatile with wide zoom range, 720p HD video recording with 30 fps, wide ISO range.

* We don't like: Image quality not as good as the W60 which it replaces, no built in image stabilization, user interface not the best in the group, small battery

creampuff · 07-27-2009, 04:44 AM

I cannot remember Pentax making any compact camera that stands above the sea of PnS cameras from the other makes. The compact camera market is so competitive and yet Pentax has failed time and time again to come up with compact cameras that put picture quality first. The more megapixels formula at the expense of image quality approach that the W80 adopts is proof of the designers failing to really understand what the end user really want.

k100d · 07-27-2009, 06:27 AM

the end user wants more megapixels because that means higher quality
advertising for the best image quality is dubious because everybody says that...

Jonson PL · 07-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by emr

I agree. After the original test I was thinking that W80 with better video could be a great purchase.

'Waterproof' Camera Group Test (Q2 2009) Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review

But I don’t ever plan on using a P&S for high Iso images. So for me, the W80 would probably be as good as the W60.
I would love for the zoom range to start at 24 mm, though

DanLoc78 · 07-28-2009, 10:16 AM

Originally posted by k100d

the end user wants more megapixels because that means higher quality
advertising for the best image quality is dubious because everybody says that...

pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable?

Where if they could make a sensor with less mp and spend the extra money developing better sensors for higher ISO settings, maybe that would be beneficial.

phenri · 07-28-2009, 11:51 AM

My wife has the W60 and is very happy with it. It's a compact but can be used under water, it's open to plenty of creative use.

Erik · 07-29-2009, 03:27 AM

Originally posted by DanLoc78

pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable?

Putting 12 mp instead of 10 on such a small sensor, like Pentax did with the W80/W60, has only detrimental effects. Worse in low light, worse picture quality, bigger files, slower camera... There's no benefit whatsoever, it is purely a marketing thing.

Originally posted by creampuff:

I cannot remember Pentax making any compact camera that stands above the sea of PnS cameras from the other makes.

They had a brief moment in the spotlight when they released the Optio S, but even then it was the size & design that stood out, not the picture quality. Let's face it though, every point and shoot camera is garbage, so it's only fair to assume that Pentax's point and shoot cameras are going to be garbage.

k100d · 07-29-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by DanLoc78

pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable?

Where if they could make a sensor with less mp and spend the extra money developing better sensors for higher ISO settings, maybe that would be beneficial.

Originally posted by Erik

Putting 12 mp instead of 10 on such a small sensor, like Pentax did with the W80/W60, has only detrimental effects. Worse in low light, worse picture quality, bigger files, slower camera... There's no benefit whatsoever, it is purely a marketing thing.

yes of course we all know this but the average consumer doesn't know. i always need to hold myself back when people compare cameras by the number of "megapixels".

and that's where the marketing comes in....

Mindflux · 07-29-2009, 11:47 AM

Sigh. I had high hopes for this. It's a shame it's getting such poor marks.

Erik · 07-30-2009, 01:06 AM

Originally posted by Mindflux

Sigh. I had high hopes for this. It's a shame it's getting such poor marks.

It's not bad for a 12 megapixel compact camera, it's just that 12 megapixel compact cameras are bad per definition. If you need a waterproof camera, just get the W60 at a reduced price and be happy with that.

Mindflux · 07-30-2009, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Erik

It's not bad for a 12 megapixel compact camera, it's just that 12 megapixel compact cameras are bad per definition. If you need a waterproof camera, just get the W60 at a reduced price and be happy with that.

Reduced price? The prices I'm seeing on NEW W60's now are about as much or more than the W80 will be.

DanLoc78 · 07-30-2009, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by k100d

yes of course we all know this but the average consumer doesn't know. i always need to hold myself back when people compare cameras by the number of "megapixels".

and that's where the marketing comes in....

yeah, i hear ya...i hear quite often when people are shopping for P&S cameras 'yeah, but this one has 12mp, and that one only has 8.' I hate to butt into people's business while at a store, but if it's someone I know I definitely try to explain that they don't need 12mp, especially for photos they are just going to share online with friends.

ftpaddict · 08-01-2009, 01:49 AM

I still like it. I'd still buy it if I needed a waterproof camera.

kristoffon · 08-01-2009, 08:22 AM

It's simple math

Low ISO = more megapixels

High ISO = just scale the picture to 50%

Nothing to complaing really

Show me a compact camera with good high iso performance.... there is a single one: the R1 with dslr sensor

ALL OTHERS have usable iso 100-200, period, because the instant sensor noise goes down resolution goes up.

07-23-2009, 03:03 AM	#1
wll Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Mission Hills, CA Posts: 773	W80 on dpreview :-( dpreview re-did their test on underwater cameras, and their findings did not make me to happy. wll

07-29-2009, 11:27 AM	#9
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	Originally posted by DanLoc78 pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable? Where if they could make a sensor with less mp and spend the extra money developing better sensors for higher ISO settings, maybe that would be beneficial. Originally posted by Erik Putting 12 mp instead of 10 on such a small sensor, like Pentax did with the W80/W60, has only detrimental effects. Worse in low light, worse picture quality, bigger files, slower camera... There's no benefit whatsoever, it is purely a marketing thing. yes of course we all know this but the average consumer doesn't know. i always need to hold myself back when people compare cameras by the number of "megapixels". and that's where the marketing comes in.... Last edited by k100d; 07-29-2009 at 12:24 PM.

07-30-2009, 05:49 AM	#12
Mindflux Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 150	Originally posted by Erik It's not bad for a 12 megapixel compact camera, it's just that 12 megapixel compact cameras are bad per definition. If you need a waterproof camera, just get the W60 at a reduced price and be happy with that. Reduced price? The prices I'm seeing on NEW W60's now are about as much or more than the W80 will be. Last edited by Mindflux; 07-30-2009 at 05:56 AM.

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07-23-2009, 07:33 AM	#2
emr Guest	I agree. After the original test I was thinking that W80 with better video could be a great purchase. 'Waterproof' Camera Group Test (Q2 2009) Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review Quote: Summary When trying to update the W60 Pentax improved the HD video frame rate to 30 fps, and increased the resolution of the sensor. While the first makes the video mode more usable, the second has introduced more noise especially at high ISO settings. If you find the wide 5x zoom lens, and feature set of the Pentax an attractive proposition, then the W60 is a better choice than the W80 despite the slower HD video frame rate. * We like: Compact design, good colors and exposure, versatile with wide zoom range, 720p HD video recording with 30 fps, wide ISO range. * We don't like: Image quality not as good as the W60 which it replaces, no built in image stabilization, user interface not the best in the group, small battery

07-27-2009, 04:44 AM	#3
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	I cannot remember Pentax making any compact camera that stands above the sea of PnS cameras from the other makes. The compact camera market is so competitive and yet Pentax has failed time and time again to come up with compact cameras that put picture quality first. The more megapixels formula at the expense of image quality approach that the W80 adopts is proof of the designers failing to really understand what the end user really want.

07-27-2009, 06:27 AM	#4
k100d Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,911	the end user wants more megapixels because that means higher quality advertising for the best image quality is dubious because everybody says that...

07-27-2009, 02:54 PM	#5
Jonson PL Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Copenhagen Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,842	Originally posted by emr I agree. After the original test I was thinking that W80 with better video could be a great purchase. 'Waterproof' Camera Group Test (Q2 2009) Review: 1. Introduction: Digital Photography Review But I don’t ever plan on using a P&S for high Iso images. So for me, the W80 would probably be as good as the W60. I would love for the zoom range to start at 24 mm, though

07-28-2009, 10:16 AM	#6
DanLoc78 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Gallery Posts: 915	Originally posted by k100d the end user wants more megapixels because that means higher quality advertising for the best image quality is dubious because everybody says that... pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable? Where if they could make a sensor with less mp and spend the extra money developing better sensors for higher ISO settings, maybe that would be beneficial.

07-28-2009, 11:51 AM	#7
phenri Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brussels Posts: 28	My wife has the W60 and is very happy with it. It's a compact but can be used under water, it's open to plenty of creative use.

07-29-2009, 03:27 AM	#8
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755	Originally posted by DanLoc78 pixel count only truly matters if you want to make large prints though right? If you're one who just uploads pics to a hard drive and views them on a computer screen and shares them that way, isn't the difference between 5mp and 12mp undetectable? Putting 12 mp instead of 10 on such a small sensor, like Pentax did with the W80/W60, has only detrimental effects. Worse in low light, worse picture quality, bigger files, slower camera... There's no benefit whatsoever, it is purely a marketing thing. Originally posted by creampuff: I cannot remember Pentax making any compact camera that stands above the sea of PnS cameras from the other makes. They had a brief moment in the spotlight when they released the Optio S, but even then it was the size & design that stood out, not the picture quality. Let's face it though, every point and shoot camera is garbage, so it's only fair to assume that Pentax's point and shoot cameras are going to be garbage.

07-29-2009, 11:47 AM	#10
Mindflux Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 150	Sigh. I had high hopes for this. It's a shame it's getting such poor marks.

07-30-2009, 01:06 AM	#11
Erik Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Umeå, Sweden Posts: 755	Originally posted by Mindflux Sigh. I had high hopes for this. It's a shame it's getting such poor marks. It's not bad for a 12 megapixel compact camera, it's just that 12 megapixel compact cameras are bad per definition. If you need a waterproof camera, just get the W60 at a reduced price and be happy with that.

07-30-2009, 05:58 AM	#13
DanLoc78 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Philadelphia Photos: Gallery Posts: 915	Originally posted by k100d yes of course we all know this but the average consumer doesn't know. i always need to hold myself back when people compare cameras by the number of "megapixels". and that's where the marketing comes in.... yeah, i hear ya...i hear quite often when people are shopping for P&S cameras 'yeah, but this one has 12mp, and that one only has 8.' I hate to butt into people's business while at a store, but if it's someone I know I definitely try to explain that they don't need 12mp, especially for photos they are just going to share online with friends.

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08-01-2009, 01:49 AM	#14
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	I still like it. I'd still buy it if I needed a waterproof camera.

08-01-2009, 08:22 AM	#15
kristoffon Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Brazil Posts: 532	It's simple math Low ISO = more megapixels High ISO = just scale the picture to 50% Nothing to complaing really Show me a compact camera with good high iso performance.... there is a single one: the R1 with dslr sensor ALL OTHERS have usable iso 100-200, period, because the instant sensor noise goes down resolution goes up.