[clark]

Hi, i've been thinking of changing systems to canon- and have spent about a month playing around with canon 7D, 550d and 5D, and a host of lenses

what I concluded was, that IS is basically essential for smooth video (unless you're using a steadycam)
there are some videos on youtube which showcase this

and then I started costing out a canon setup only using IS lenses, and for a start, there are no primes which are stabilised, and the L series zooms (anything other than L feels like crap to focus manually) are incredibly expensive

so I had been thinking of a gh1, but again, no stabilisation and no decent selection of lenses


so that brings me back to pentax- cheap primes, in body IS- sounds perfect, but I can find absolutely no information on the web which reviews the effectiveness of the IS

so does anyone have any experience, or better yet, sample videos of the IS in action on the kx/k7? I guess the canon IS is perhaps one stop better for stills, but i'd use the system 3/4 for video, so it only really matters how much it smoothes out video.


Also I read that pentax is using motion jpeg- I have no experience with working with motion jpeg, but I know the workflows for h.264, so does anyone have any workflow tips with mJpeg other than log and transfer into FCS as pro res 422?
also how does mJpeg stand up to colour grading, I can definitely see myself doing some serious colour work using magic bullet, as well as keying/effects shots, and I know the gh1 has problems due to it's weak codec but i've not read anything for or against the pentax

as I said, there seems to be no information on using pentax video footage professionally anywhere on the web, so any help from people who've used the kx/k7would be great
my local camera shop is sick of me asking questions they can't answer

[Painter]

While your questions really require a considered response, I just don't have the time to look at all your points, however the shake reduction works great for hand held video. For any focal length beyond 50mm it's an almost necessity. The difference is very pronounced. It's the same sort of difference as I experience turning stabilization on or off with my Canon HV20. The one major issue I see is the jelly effect when panning or when something moves across the frame.

[RolloR]

You can find a way to reduce shake on a clean, grain-free, manual exposure 1080p video.

But it's hard to find a way to improve the video quality of a grainy, auto-exposed 720p video.

[Adam]

From my experience with the K-7, the SR is quite effective in video mode. Almost made my videos feel as if they were shot with a tripod. I was using a longer lens (85mm)- perhaps that's a factor.

[clark]

While your questions really require a considered response, I just don't have the time to look at all your points, however the shake reduction works great for hand held video. For any focal length beyond 50mm it's an almost necessity. The difference is very pronounced. It's the same sort of difference as I experience turning stabilization on or off with my Canon HV20. The one major issue I see is the jelly effect when panning or when something moves across the frame.

thanks, when using the canon system I definitely noticed the effects of the SR, but with the canon system I would love to use the 85mm 1.4, which of course is not stabilized. I suppose I could just start out with stabilized fast zooms- sigma 24-70 f2.8 OS, and the 70-200 f4 IS- but I'm used to shooting primes, and even though i'd stick with pentax and primes for stills, I can't really afford to keep 2 systems going, and the newer canon would be head and shoulders above my very old school pentax SLR- meaning i'd have a good canon body, but good pentax glass (could get an adaptor I guess)

upgrade path to 5dm2 or 1d is very tempting also

You can find a way to reduce shake on a clean, grain-free, manual exposure 1080p video.

But it's hard to find a way to improve the video quality of a grainy, auto-exposed 720p video.

fair point, and I do often stabilise footage (with good results) in FCP
regarding the lack of manual control on current pentax cams, by the time i've saved up enough money to buy the camera photokina will have happened, so either pentax will have released a full manual 1080p cam with 720p 60fps or i'll get whatever canon I can afford at the time, although the savings on pentax lenses will save me more money in the long term

From my experience with the K-7, the SR is quite effective in video mode. Almost made my videos feel as if they were shot with a tripod. I was using a longer lens (85mm)- perhaps that's a factor.

i've heard that in body IS actually works better in video than in lens IS, don't know why this would be the case though. I plan to go back to the shop in a few days and see at what point IS becomes nessecary, i've heard that 50mm is about the limit of handholdability, so i guess any primes I owned under 50mm wouldn't really benefit much



The mjepg codec is really putting me off here, i'd love all my lenses to be stabilised, and from what i've seen it really does work to the point where I could get away without using a steady cam (because i'm not going to have a steady cam on me as much as i'm likely to have my cam in the bag)- but for the £150 a steadycam will cost me, will I wish i'd have got a cam with a better codec...
but as well as the stabilisation, the other pluses for pentax are familiarity- IMO sharper lenses, better manual focus, access to legacy glass (although i'm sure you can get a k mount or nikon mount to canon adaptor), kx seems to have better high ISO than the 7d, and the k7 has more detail at iso 100 (from looking at 100% crops on the comparometer)
Better weather sealing on the k7
overall I think the k7 beats the 7d for everything other than AF as a stills camera, but for video, the 7d is still king- but i'd hate to buy into canon now and then for pentax to release an awesome awesome camera at photokina which I could then no longer afford
i've heard rumours that the new pentax will have 60fps 1080, apparantly they are using the new sony sensor which can do this


i don't really mind owning 2, maybe even 3 camera's, for A/B/C cam- but if I commit financially, I know i've got to be making the right decision

[Eruditass]

It's my understanding that mjpeg is higher quality and allows more post processing without artifacts than h.264.

[clark]

It's my understanding that mjpeg is higher quality and allows more post processing without artifacts than h.264.

i've used to think that, and from what i've read it seems to be better quality, but larger files (which isnt a problem)
but now from what i've read about the gh1, avchd (h.264) is the preferred choice, although why that is I don't really know

[davidvandoren]

I was standing in the front of the train holding the Pentax K-x freehand

You Tube

You Tube

[clark]

wow that was pretty steady

I think the main thing that was putting me off was the lack of pro level footage out there shot on the kx/k7, the gh1 and the canon's definitely have so pro backing

but after looking at the highest rated videos on vimeo tagged under kx, I think i'm sold- certainly up to the standard

the canon definitely had a look I was liking, but I think that does come from colour grading, raw footage from both the 7d and the kx/k7 is about equal i'd say- and rubbish videos have been shot with both

lack of manual control though...
so, will get a gh1 now and maybe a HD hero- and get the new pentax when it comes out
or if it sucks, then get a k mount to eos adaptor and switch systems, pentax glass seems to work fine on canon bodies, so there's not an issue there
k7

Vimeo

Vimeo

kx

Vimeo

Vimeo

Vimeo

I think I prefer the look of the kx footage, 24p certainly looks more filmic to my eyes, and much less noisy too

[kkumer]

but after looking at the highest rated videos on vimeo tagged under kx, I think i'm sold- certainly up to the standard

Considering shake-reduction which you are particularly interested in, there is this quite nice video on vimeo (although you may have noticed it already):

Vimeo

[clark]

Considering shake-reduction which you are particularly interested in, there is this quite nice video on vimeo (although you may have noticed it already):

yeah I have seen that video before but thanks for posting- it'l help other people who are interested in this subject

eventually I will get a steady cam/glide track so stbilisation won't matter- but I also need a zoom h4n, maybe a rode video mic, more lenses, and a good tripod
so the price is rising steadily- could really do with getting as much of this stuff as possible so I can shoot over summer, but need to make sure i'm buying into a system which will last the test of time..
i feel like i've made no progress in terms of coming to a decision- I think I need to handle all 3 cameras again, and shoot some controlled test footage

(if I didnt have so much time, and so little money- i'd have made up my mind and would be shooting right now )

[tuco]

There are pro's and con's to a steadycam depending how/what you shoot. But overall it can make a real difference. But a dSLRs on a steadycam are not ideal (as is shooting video with a dSLR in general due to fixed viewing position) unless you have a view finder that flip around for the different holding techniques you can employ on one (eg Don Juan position, holding it in low mode etc).

Just changing the focus will require a minor re-balance on them and wind blows them around too. So you don't want the camera automatically focusing all the time. But still, even a "shakey" steadycam is okay to look at. I broke the golden rule of steadycam operation by not watching where I was going. I was backing up and there was some steps behind me (3 steps worth). I almost lost it but hung on from falling catching my balance and recuperated. When I looked at the video, I could hardly tell I was falling. It looked like I glided down those steps. Amazing.

[tuco]

Also I read that pentax is using motion jpeg- I have no experience with working with motion jpeg, but I know the workflows for h.264, so does anyone have any workflow tips with mJpeg other than log and transfer into FCS as pro res 422?

I always transcode my video to ProRes 422 for editing be it HDV or whatever. The MJPEG is in a AVI container from Pentax. I only once edited it as an AVI to put together a small clip because I was being lazy. It seem to handle color adjustments just fine in FCP. But I wasn't looking closely at the quality because it was good enough for what I was doing. In the end it ended up a H.264 anyway.

[clark]

I always transcode my video to ProRes 422 for editing be it HDV or whatever. The MJPEG is in a AVI container from Pentax. I only once edited it as an AVI to put together a small clip because I was being lazy. It seem to handle color adjustments just fine in FCP. But I wasn't looking closely at the quality because it was good enough for what I was doing. In the end it ended up a H.264 anyway.

thanks, that's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for

i'm assuming the rig in the picture is yours, if so- which steadycam is that, and how are you finding the videomic? I was planning on getting a h4n to record ambient/general, and use a wireless lapel mic for dialogue, and i've got a couple of cardioids I could also use (wireless and wired) for more recording
plan on getting a videomic in the future, but maybe not right away
will have a play around with the mics over summer, see what works in different situations



Tuco do you still use IS when using a steadycam?

[tuco]

thanks, that's exactly the sort of answer I was looking for

i'm assuming the rig in the picture is yours, if so- which steadycam is that, and how are you finding the videomic? I was planning on getting a h4n to record ambient/general, and use a wireless lapel mic for dialogue, and i've got a couple of cardioids I could also use (wireless and wired) for more recording
plan on getting a videomic in the future, but maybe not right away
will have a play around with the mics over summer, see what works in different situations



Tuco do you still use IS when using a steadycam?

Yes, it's mine. It is a Merlin Steadyicam. The mic is a stereo mic and works just fine. I have another shotgun mic with a dead cat but it isn't made for mounting on a hot shoe. I've only ever used the K-7 with shake reduction off on the steadycam. So I can't say what it's like turned on. Field recorders look handy to have.