[Pete Prue]

Hey all,

A couple of problems I have...

First up I want to do a bit of video with my new K-5 but the file sizes at full HD/25fps are ridiculous! A mere 11 minutes of video off a 8gb card!?

Probably a silly question but... can these files be converted / downsized whilst still retaining their original quality?

Also, I can't play the resulting AVI files produced from the K-5 on my TV via the USB. I can play other AVI files, just not those off the camera. It is a HD tv.

Cheers

[ripit]

Yes they can be converted and yes you should be able to convert to a format that your tv can read. Here is a thread with a few suggestions.
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/digital-processing-software-printing/8706...er-format.html
I have used handbrake for other types of conversions. It should be able to convert to something your tv can read. You will have to look in your tv's manual and see what formats it supports. There are probably hundreds of formats that you could convert it to (I would suggest h.264 if your tv can read it).
You can also find info on video conversion here
step by step guides (not sure about the particulars of video that camera so I can not recommend an exact guide).
Guide, How To, Tutorial and Article list - VideoHelp.com
but you can change the search guides by tool drop down to handbrake and see what you get.

[Barbarosa]

AVI format is just container file format , size of AVI depends of type of encoding used for video, in case of K-5 that is low compressed motion jpg I think.
Just take something free like vidcoder VidCoder or similar and recode to h264 or something like that and video fell down to 10% of initial size.

[Pete Prue]

Thanks for that guys. The vidCoder software gave me the dreaded blue screen of death so I'm using the 'Handbrake' program instead - 222mb is now just 19mb! Still won't play on the TV so I'll have explore some more.

[ripit]

Look in the manual for your tv and see what formats it supports. It will make things simpler if you know what will work. It could just be a matter of what settings you used in handbrake. If it wont work there are converters to go from just about any format to any format so there should be something that will work with your tv. What is the model of your tv?

[tuco]

Most likely your TV does not support motion JPEG. I don't think many do if at all. As others have noted, an AVI file is just the container and not the actual video codec. You can compress the files by transcoding them either to a more size-efficient format (eg H.264) or lower bit rate of the original but at a cost in video quality depending how much you compress it. Consider shooting in 720p if you want smaller files. That size still makes for great video.

[jogiba]

At least Pentax moved on to 1080p30 H.264 with the Q so the K-5 upgrade should have it.

[Ex Finn.]

Also, I can't play the resulting AVI files produced from the K-5 on my TV via the USB.

You mean HDMI port, correct. USB from camera will not do it, it is only good for downloading to PC.
I have no trouble playing MJPEG files from K7 via HDMI connection on my Bravia.
I guess I will have to try that with K5, not expecting any difficulties how ever.

[Ex Finn.]

Had to try it, K5 video plays fine via HDMI connection.

[wedge]

I don't know what formats/encoding the K5 uses out of the box, but there are two programs not already mentioned which I use all the time for various video conversion ("transcoding") purposes:

1. AVIdemux - If the K5 encodes using h.264, skip this option and go to #2. Apparently h.264 uses keyframes in a manner that AVIdemux can't cope with, so you either get stuttering in playback or the program just plain crashes. However, if h.264 is NOT used in the camera, then AVIdemux should handle them just fine. The website and wiki have tons of great info. It can export/encode to a slew of different formats (including h.264 and xvid/divx, both of which are supported by nearly all DVD and Blu-ray players these days).

2. MPEG Streamclip - This program can be a bit tricky to get installed properly, at least on Windows machines. To effectively work with h.264 files, you need to remove any existing version(s) of QuickTime and install a particular build/version of "QuickTime Alternative" (an open-source, well, alternative to QuickTime). Also, even when it's installed properly, it can be finicky in certain operations, particularly navigating to a specific point in the timeline (for trimming, editing, etc. - if you just want to convert from one format to another, it's fairly easy). As with AVIdemux, there are many export options, including h.264. Xvid/divx isn't an option, but if that's the output you need, you could use this to churn out a non-h.264 mp4 or avi file, then use AVIdemux to transcode that to xvid/divx. Yes, you're likely to lose some quality in the process, but that's sometimes unavoidable.

BTW, both of these are free. AVIdemux is open-source, MPEG Streamclip is not, but still free to download and use.

[ripit]

I don't know what formats/encoding the K5 uses out of the box

As best as I can tell, it uses motion jpeg using an avi container.
While I haven't converted video from a pentax camera before, my experience with video conversion in general is that sometimes you have to just try out a few programs and try out a few output formats till you get something that works well for your situation. There are lots of free converters to try (including many good ones).
You can find guides and info on just about any converter out there on video help.
VideoHelp.com - Forum, Guides, Tools and hardware lists
Look on the left where there is a menu for guides and such. It might not hurt to ask in there forums too if some of the suggestions here don't work for you.

Unless I missed it the original poster hasn't told the make and model of his tv or what formats it supports yet (that is important information if he wants it to play direct on his tv). I'm asuming it can read off a usb stick or something?

[Ex Finn.]

My 52" Bravia will play fine from camera via HDMI, no dice with same footage from USB thumb drive. I know there is a simple reason for this. I know next to nothing about computers and USB data transfer rates.
Hmm, I should start shooting more video, maybe become an expert.

[ripit]

My 52" Bravia will play fine from camera via HDMI, no dice with same footage from USB thumb drive. I know there is a simple reason for this. I know next to nothing about computers and USB data transfer rates.
Hmm, I should start shooting more video, maybe become an expert.

In order for any device to decode (play) video, it has to have a matching codec (a codec is a very small piece of software conceptually similar to a driver or firmware). There is a specific codec for each video format (and there are a lot more video formats and versions of those video formats than you might think). When you play video on your camera through hdmi to the tv, the camera is decoding the video file and the camera has the codec to read it. It sends a standard video signal to the tv and the tv doesn't have to decode anything. The tv doesn't have to have a specific codec because the camera is decoding the video file.
For the tv to play a video file on a usb drive, the tv has to have the correct codec to decode (play) that specific kind of video file. Your tv has a specific set of codec files. The manual should tell you what kind of video formats it supports (what codec files it has). You have to convert the file to a format that the tv has a codec file for so it knows how to decode and read the file.
Its the same way with a computer. If it doesn't have the codec file it can not play the video file. With a computer though it is easy to add codec files so in theory you can easily play any video file. With a tv I'm guessing the manufacture would have to release a firmware update that contained codec files to add support for more video formats.

To further complicate things, there is the container and the actual format. The container is just a specification to stick video information into a file. The video information can very widely in format. Avi is a container. Just because your device has the codec to play a certain avi file, that doesn't mean it has the correct codec to play all avi files (there are probably hundreds of video formats that can use an avi container).
Its a little confusing but if your device says it can play avi, that means it can play some avi files. Sometimes it a matter of a little trial and error. If the device gives good specs, it will specify what formats it can read, not just what containers.

If you want to find what a file is, google and download gspot (current version is 2.70a). I randomly checked a video file on my computer and it was mpeg-4 container with the xvid video format.

Anyone feel free to correct any mistakes I made as I am far from an expert.

Did that help anyone understand it a little better?

[Ex Finn.]

The tv doesn't have to have a specific codec because the camera is decoding the video file.

Thank you.
And "Did that help anyone understand it a little better?" Not really but thanks, all this stuff is pretty involved. Here is the thing, a TV is not a computer, it is a display device. Damn, I am completely confused by this stuff.

After reading through this couple times, my conclusion, how ever wrong it might be, is that people expect the HD TV to act as a computer with appropriate software to handle what ever gets thrown at it

[ripit]

And "Did that help anyone understand it a little better?" Not really but thanks, all this stuff is pretty involved. Here is the thing, a TV is not a computer, it is a display device. Damn, I am completely confused by this stuff.

Maybe this will simplify it a bit. When playing from a usb stick the tv will only play the kind of files it knows how to play. You have to convert video to a format it knows how to play and there should be a specific list your tv supports.

When playing from your camera, your camera acts like a dvd player or a vcr. The tv wont care if it is a blue ray player or a dvd player or a vhs tape or a camera or a video camera or something else. They all send the same standard video signal to the tv. The player determines what can be played. A standard dvd player can play a dvd but not play a blueray. It supports one format but not the other. From a usb stick, the tv is the player, it can support one format but not another.

After reading through this couple times, my conclusion, how ever wrong it might be, is that people expect the HD TV to act as a computer with appropriate software to handle what ever gets thrown at it

The key is appropriate software. The tv only has the appropriate software to play some video formats, not whatever gets thrown at it.

Skip this part if you like as it will just further complicate things, but many devices these days are a computer, be it a tv, or a blue ray player, or your smart phone, or a tablet or a gaming system, they all basically contain a computer (in some cases a simplified and or specialized one). They contain the same core components (a processor, memory, storage space, control electronics, either dedicated video chips or a main processor that has built in video support, and they run software).