John Carlson's Comments on Video and Pentax

mediaslinky · 01-13-2012, 09:20 AM

Thanks for posting the link to the complete interview. I wanted to comment about Carlson's comments on Video:

Quote:

DE: What can you say about features on video in your--either SLR or system camera lines--you were really the first to offer manual aperture control during video capture, but our sense is that since then, you've lagged a little bit on features. Things that are becoming common elsewhere, such as full-time auto-focus or manual audio level control. What would you like to see come to product line in terms of video?

JC: I think there's a couple of things I've seen with our competitors that are very compelling, like auto-focus during video, and more manual controls of exposure during the video. However, I think what's important is to realize that while that stuff is... would be nice to have, it's not absolutely necessary. We've worked with some producers that have done some great videos that we have on our YouTube channel, that definitely show even in pretty complicated lighting situations, you can effectively use a camera like the K-5 to get good quality video. Using things that you may not think of, like the exposure lock button that will essentially let you set the exposure, things like that. Just watching some of these professional cinematographers using the different lenses to their capabilities, and realizing these guys don't use auto-focus anyway. The true advanced cinematographers out there are doing it all manual, and planning your shot, and really thinking it out. I think you consider those things, and our cameras are definitely very capable.

DE: What's your sense for how customers are using the video capabilities of the system cameras? This is one thing I have a question about, is how many of them are still photographers that are becoming video enthusiasts, or how many are like, you know, I'm a still photographer and I'd like to take an occasional video snapshot?

JC: You definitely see a lot of the traditional photographers almost questioning why you need video, but then you have the people that have kind of expanded their repertoire of what they can do with a camera, by realizing that you add a little movement to an image and it can add a lot. Definitely in the nature photography, you know... A still image of a snowstorm is okay, but you get a moving image of a snowstorm, a video, and it adds something totally different to it.

This is very disappointing.

Because of the nature of my job, I do video production on a budget. And DSLR video allow us to capture great looking video for a fraction of the cost of pro video cameras. Of course at work we gravitate toward DSLR systems that favor video production. Really, that means Canon. Nikon and Pentax are slow to respond, and they treat video like a fun add on. I understand that is their perspective. You can clearly see it in how Carlson and the interviewer talk about manual control not being necessary and how people are embracing video as a way to capture a moving snap shot. it's a nice feature bonus, but the core is still photography. Much like some video cameras can take stills, but they are at their heart video cameras. I know that DSLRs will always be still cameras first. But some companies are making the features for the video capabilities attractive for video professionals. Pentax isn't one of them.

When I'm doing professional work, I would rather use a tool that allows me to do as much as possible without jury rigging and tricking it into the setting I want. Sure you can take great video with Pentax cameras. But they are not set up for doing it naturally.

I had hoped that with patience Pentax would see the benefit of the large market of video professionals who use DSLRs. It seems apparent that no matter what new body Pentax releases, full manual video control is just not going to be a part of it. Again, that's their choice.

That means if I wish to own a more capable DSLR for video I have to look elsewhere. And that is disappointing.

slinky

JohnBee · 01-13-2012, 09:45 AM

Personally, I don't see the issue with grabbing a Panasonic body to get your video done. Since most of the better lenses I've seen are manual, I see no reason for concern. Panasonic is a far better HD video solution than waiting around for other companies to catch-up.

**Rondec** · 01-13-2012, 10:02 AM

John Carlson has no idea what Pentax is doing with video and I would be shocked if the next Pentax camera doesn't have manual focus (maybe auto focus too, although that seems like it is a kludge on the D7000). Obviously dSLRs are still cameras, but they are used by a lot of videographers and it would be silly to throw away that aspect of the market for lack of what is basically a firmware issue.

jake14mw · 01-13-2012, 10:49 AM

I am a K-5 owner that would like to use it to make some creative short videos. Why does everyone think you have to be a videographer to want to be able to manually control exposure elements for video? I can certainly understand if Pentax does not want to be a leader in the DSLR video arena, but I think there is a large enough user group where when they do research on which DSLR to buy, not allowing simple video controls would be a significant check on the Con side for Pentax.

I'm not an expert, but I'm under the impression that allowing expanded manual video control would not require a large expenditure from Pentax and would just require firmware updates. Am I wrong?

This statement just makes me shake my head - "We've worked with some producers that have done some great videos that we have on our YouTube channel, that definitely show even in pretty complicated lighting situations, you can effectively use a camera like the K-5 to get good quality video." I'm glad they don't use that logic on the still image side! "We've worked with some great photographers that produce stunning images with a K1000. Autofocus, and autoexposure would be nice to have, but it's not a necessity!"

Wow.

liukaitc · 01-13-2012, 04:57 PM

really looking forward to see what the next Pentax semi-pro model offer in video aspect...

johnmflores · 01-13-2012, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by JohnBee

Personally, I don't see the issue with grabbing a Panasonic body to get your video done. Since most of the better lenses I've seen are manual, I see no reason for concern. Panasonic is a far better HD video solution than waiting around for other companies to catch-up.

Done

And regarding AF, Carlson's right in a sense - real cinematographers use MF with dedicated, professional focus pullers. My GH2 has AF, but even with a fast prime, AF often lags behind the action and when adjusting, often overshoots its mark before coming into focus. AFAIK, this is a big challenge with (comparatively) larger sensor cameras because the DOF that makes them so attractive is also what makes AF so tough. Nobody - not Panasonic, no Sony, not Canon, not Nikon - has figured out AF for video yet.

FWIW, Pentax lenses work quite nicely on the GH2:

mediaslinky · 01-14-2012, 09:40 AM

Well, that's the point isn't it? Want better video capture? Grab some other brand of camera body. Lots of bodies can use adapters to shoot other lenses. But in this case, it's the body that matters.

I don't want auto focus. I want full manual video control. I do think that auto focus is something companies are putting in for the "video snapshot" people. Played with a Nikon that had it. Nice feature, but slow. Decent for keeping a face of a slow moving person in focus, but that's about it.

sjwaldron · 01-14-2012, 11:13 AM

I wouldn't take much from a marketing guy of the US branch of Pentax.

Anyways, doesn't the Q have manual video control? I can't see why they wouldn't add that to their next DSLR with further improvements.

I have a K-5 and K-7. They are both servicable with video using AE-L and aperture control, but I'll admit it's far from ideal.

liukaitc · 01-14-2012, 09:55 PM

it is just a matter of time..

fuent104 · 01-17-2012, 11:22 PM

I'm with Mediaslinky. If Pentax doesn't offer manual control of video by the next time I buy a camera, I will buy another brand. Actually, Canon's partnership with Technicolor may be enough to get me to spend my money on a Canon.

fuent104 · 01-17-2012, 11:22 PM

That being said, the Pentax UK's representative sounded a lot more excited for the future than Carlson did.

liukaitc · 01-18-2012, 07:39 AM

I do not think it is hard to include full manual control in video mode for next pentax dslr...
Pentax Q already has it...

eddie1960 · 01-18-2012, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by fuent104

I'm with Mediaslinky. If Pentax doesn't offer manual control of video by the next time I buy a camera, I will buy another brand. Actually, Canon's partnership with Technicolor may be enough to get me to spend my money on a Canon.

Well given the camera they partnered for it better be bloody good $16000 before lenses should be good. I doubt the entry stuff will meet technicolor's standard

fuent104 · 01-18-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by eddie1960

Well given the camera they partnered for it better be bloody good $16000 before lenses should be good. I doubt the entry stuff will meet technicolor's standard

That's the incredible thing...their lower-level cameras actually DO meet the technicolor standard. Technicolor wrote a piece of firmware, which they call 'Cinestyle Picture Profile." The user can download this to their camera, set their camera to shoot video using this profile (it would be like setting the "Custom Image" settings on a K-x), and the dynamic range captured by the camera is increased substantially (maybe 2 stops).

I shot a scene with a couple of 7D's over the weekend using this picture profile, and I was pretty amazed by the results. I don't think Cinestyle can be directly downloaded to the T2i, but it can apparently be booted from an SD card when shooting with that camera. It will be a while before my editor is finished with the scene, but I'll try to remember to post the results.

Here is some more info about Cinestyle:

CineStyle, Digital Printer Lights, Visual Post Production - Technicolor

eddie1960 · 01-18-2012, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by fuent104

That's the incredible thing...their lower-level cameras actually DO meet the technicolor standard. Technicolor wrote a piece of firmware, which they call 'Cinestyle Picture Profile." The user can download this to their camera, set their camera to shoot video using this profile (it would be like setting the "Custom Image" settings on a K-x), and the dynamic range captured by the camera is increased substantially (maybe 2 stops).

I shot a scene with a couple of 7D's over the weekend using this picture profile, and I was pretty amazed by the results. I don't think Cinestyle can be directly downloaded to the T2i, but it can apparently be booted from an SD card when shooting with that camera. It will be a while before my editor is finished with the scene, but I'll try to remember to post the results.

Here is some more info about Cinestyle:

CineStyle, Digital Printer Lights, Visual Post Production - Technicolor

Cool thanks, it does seem a brilliant idea if you shoot a lot of video (and I have to give Canon credit they have really shaped that market with the 5D2 and the 7d of course later.) I rarely shoot video so for me it's less of a concern. but after looking at that if I was serious about video I would probably make a 7d or 5d2 or 5d3 my next camera (despit all the things i don't like about the ergonomics - i would adapt after all)

01-13-2012, 09:20 AM	#1
mediaslinky Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 373	John Carlson's Comments on Video and Pentax Thanks for posting the link to the complete interview. I wanted to comment about Carlson's comments on Video: Quote: DE: What can you say about features on video in your--either SLR or system camera lines--you were really the first to offer manual aperture control during video capture, but our sense is that since then, you've lagged a little bit on features. Things that are becoming common elsewhere, such as full-time auto-focus or manual audio level control. What would you like to see come to product line in terms of video? JC: I think there's a couple of things I've seen with our competitors that are very compelling, like auto-focus during video, and more manual controls of exposure during the video. However, I think what's important is to realize that while that stuff is... would be nice to have, it's not absolutely necessary. We've worked with some producers that have done some great videos that we have on our YouTube channel, that definitely show even in pretty complicated lighting situations, you can effectively use a camera like the K-5 to get good quality video. Using things that you may not think of, like the exposure lock button that will essentially let you set the exposure, things like that. Just watching some of these professional cinematographers using the different lenses to their capabilities, and realizing these guys don't use auto-focus anyway. The true advanced cinematographers out there are doing it all manual, and planning your shot, and really thinking it out. I think you consider those things, and our cameras are definitely very capable. DE: What's your sense for how customers are using the video capabilities of the system cameras? This is one thing I have a question about, is how many of them are still photographers that are becoming video enthusiasts, or how many are like, you know, I'm a still photographer and I'd like to take an occasional video snapshot? JC: You definitely see a lot of the traditional photographers almost questioning why you need video, but then you have the people that have kind of expanded their repertoire of what they can do with a camera, by realizing that you add a little movement to an image and it can add a lot. Definitely in the nature photography, you know... A still image of a snowstorm is okay, but you get a moving image of a snowstorm, a video, and it adds something totally different to it. This is very disappointing. Because of the nature of my job, I do video production on a budget. And DSLR video allow us to capture great looking video for a fraction of the cost of pro video cameras. Of course at work we gravitate toward DSLR systems that favor video production. Really, that means Canon. Nikon and Pentax are slow to respond, and they treat video like a fun add on. I understand that is their perspective. You can clearly see it in how Carlson and the interviewer talk about manual control not being necessary and how people are embracing video as a way to capture a moving snap shot. it's a nice feature bonus, but the core is still photography. Much like some video cameras can take stills, but they are at their heart video cameras. I know that DSLRs will always be still cameras first. But some companies are making the features for the video capabilities attractive for video professionals. Pentax isn't one of them. When I'm doing professional work, I would rather use a tool that allows me to do as much as possible without jury rigging and tricking it into the setting I want. Sure you can take great video with Pentax cameras. But they are not set up for doing it naturally. I had hoped that with patience Pentax would see the benefit of the large market of video professionals who use DSLRs. It seems apparent that no matter what new body Pentax releases, full manual video control is just not going to be a part of it. Again, that's their choice. That means if I wish to own a more capable DSLR for video I have to look elsewhere. And that is disappointing. slinky

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01-13-2012, 09:45 AM	#2
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Personally, I don't see the issue with grabbing a Panasonic body to get your video done. Since most of the better lenses I've seen are manual, I see no reason for concern. Panasonic is a far better HD video solution than waiting around for other companies to catch-up.

01-13-2012, 10:02 AM	#3
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,650	John Carlson has no idea what Pentax is doing with video and I would be shocked if the next Pentax camera doesn't have manual focus (maybe auto focus too, although that seems like it is a kludge on the D7000). Obviously dSLRs are still cameras, but they are used by a lot of videographers and it would be silly to throw away that aspect of the market for lack of what is basically a firmware issue.

01-13-2012, 10:49 AM	#4
jake14mw Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Connecticut, USA Posts: 977	I am a K-5 owner that would like to use it to make some creative short videos. Why does everyone think you have to be a videographer to want to be able to manually control exposure elements for video? I can certainly understand if Pentax does not want to be a leader in the DSLR video arena, but I think there is a large enough user group where when they do research on which DSLR to buy, not allowing simple video controls would be a significant check on the Con side for Pentax. I'm not an expert, but I'm under the impression that allowing expanded manual video control would not require a large expenditure from Pentax and would just require firmware updates. Am I wrong? This statement just makes me shake my head - "We've worked with some producers that have done some great videos that we have on our YouTube channel, that definitely show even in pretty complicated lighting situations, you can effectively use a camera like the K-5 to get good quality video." I'm glad they don't use that logic on the still image side! "We've worked with some great photographers that produce stunning images with a K1000. Autofocus, and autoexposure would be nice to have, but it's not a necessity!" Wow.

01-13-2012, 04:57 PM	#5
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008	really looking forward to see what the next Pentax semi-pro model offer in video aspect...

01-13-2012, 10:15 PM	#6
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by JohnBee Personally, I don't see the issue with grabbing a Panasonic body to get your video done. Since most of the better lenses I've seen are manual, I see no reason for concern. Panasonic is a far better HD video solution than waiting around for other companies to catch-up. Done And regarding AF, Carlson's right in a sense - real cinematographers use MF with dedicated, professional focus pullers. My GH2 has AF, but even with a fast prime, AF often lags behind the action and when adjusting, often overshoots its mark before coming into focus. AFAIK, this is a big challenge with (comparatively) larger sensor cameras because the DOF that makes them so attractive is also what makes AF so tough. Nobody - not Panasonic, no Sony, not Canon, not Nikon - has figured out AF for video yet. FWIW, Pentax lenses work quite nicely on the GH2:

01-14-2012, 09:40 AM	#7
mediaslinky Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Florida Photos: Gallery Posts: 373 Original Poster	Well, that's the point isn't it? Want better video capture? Grab some other brand of camera body. Lots of bodies can use adapters to shoot other lenses. But in this case, it's the body that matters. I don't want auto focus. I want full manual video control. I do think that auto focus is something companies are putting in for the "video snapshot" people. Played with a Nikon that had it. Nice feature, but slow. Decent for keeping a face of a slow moving person in focus, but that's about it.

01-14-2012, 11:13 AM	#8
sjwaldron Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,235	I wouldn't take much from a marketing guy of the US branch of Pentax. Anyways, doesn't the Q have manual video control? I can't see why they wouldn't add that to their next DSLR with further improvements. I have a K-5 and K-7. They are both servicable with video using AE-L and aperture control, but I'll admit it's far from ideal.

01-14-2012, 09:55 PM	#9
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008	it is just a matter of time..

01-17-2012, 11:22 PM	#10
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	I'm with Mediaslinky. If Pentax doesn't offer manual control of video by the next time I buy a camera, I will buy another brand. Actually, Canon's partnership with Technicolor may be enough to get me to spend my money on a Canon.

01-17-2012, 11:22 PM	#11
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	That being said, the Pentax UK's representative sounded a lot more excited for the future than Carlson did.

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01-18-2012, 07:39 AM	#12
liukaitc Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: New York Photos: Albums Posts: 1,008	I do not think it is hard to include full manual control in video mode for next pentax dslr... Pentax Q already has it...

01-18-2012, 07:50 AM	#13
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by fuent104 I'm with Mediaslinky. If Pentax doesn't offer manual control of video by the next time I buy a camera, I will buy another brand. Actually, Canon's partnership with Technicolor may be enough to get me to spend my money on a Canon. Well given the camera they partnered for it better be bloody good $16000 before lenses should be good. I doubt the entry stuff will meet technicolor's standard

01-18-2012, 11:51 AM	#14
fuent104 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: California Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,356	Originally posted by eddie1960 Well given the camera they partnered for it better be bloody good $16000 before lenses should be good. I doubt the entry stuff will meet technicolor's standard That's the incredible thing...their lower-level cameras actually DO meet the technicolor standard. Technicolor wrote a piece of firmware, which they call 'Cinestyle Picture Profile." The user can download this to their camera, set their camera to shoot video using this profile (it would be like setting the "Custom Image" settings on a K-x), and the dynamic range captured by the camera is increased substantially (maybe 2 stops). I shot a scene with a couple of 7D's over the weekend using this picture profile, and I was pretty amazed by the results. I don't think Cinestyle can be directly downloaded to the T2i, but it can apparently be booted from an SD card when shooting with that camera. It will be a while before my editor is finished with the scene, but I'll try to remember to post the results. Here is some more info about Cinestyle: CineStyle, Digital Printer Lights, Visual Post Production - Technicolor

01-18-2012, 12:42 PM	#15
eddie1960 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,666	Originally posted by fuent104 That's the incredible thing...their lower-level cameras actually DO meet the technicolor standard. Technicolor wrote a piece of firmware, which they call 'Cinestyle Picture Profile." The user can download this to their camera, set their camera to shoot video using this profile (it would be like setting the "Custom Image" settings on a K-x), and the dynamic range captured by the camera is increased substantially (maybe 2 stops). I shot a scene with a couple of 7D's over the weekend using this picture profile, and I was pretty amazed by the results. I don't think Cinestyle can be directly downloaded to the T2i, but it can apparently be booted from an SD card when shooting with that camera. It will be a while before my editor is finished with the scene, but I'll try to remember to post the results. Here is some more info about Cinestyle: CineStyle, Digital Printer Lights, Visual Post Production - Technicolor Cool thanks, it does seem a brilliant idea if you shoot a lot of video (and I have to give Canon credit they have really shaped that market with the 5D2 and the 7d of course later.) I rarely shoot video so for me it's less of a concern. but after looking at that if I was serious about video I would probably make a 7d or 5d2 or 5d3 my next camera (despit all the things i don't like about the ergonomics - i would adapt after all)