[Nicolas_Rage]

I wasn't pointing at the codec, I was pointing at the processing power. Just like all lossy codecs, quality is not a set standard, especially when it comes to a complex video algorithm like h.264. It would be like saying my cell phone takes the same quality photos as the K-5 because they're also jpegs. It has to do with the quality of the compression, how high the bitrate is, whether the bitrate is constant or variable, how thoroughly and effectively the software analyzes the original footage, whether it makes multiple passes, etc... They could probably use a firmware update to give the K-5 the ability to save as H.264 as well, and you'd likely end up with videos much worse than the K-30's due to it's processing limitations.

[Anvh]

They could probably use a firmware update to give the K-5 the ability to save as H.264 as well, and you'd likely end up with videos much worse than the K-30's due to it's processing limitations.

The K5 doesnt have the process power and the K30 is only able to decode that because the hardware is specially design for that so it's not the software that does the work but the hardware.
The K30 neither software decode h.264

[paranoia23]

just a thought on the videos from the first side ... with this jelly vision thing ...

the k30 has the oportunity to record different framrates ... my notebook for example cant display them ... dont know what happens in youtube if u send them a 24p video and play it back on your 60hz screen. i dont think that pentax (or ricoh) engineers are that stupid to release a product which produces videos like that (but sometime i'm corrected because there are alot of idiotic engineers out there).

dont get me wrong i'm not a fan of the k30 because it lacks the ability to calculate focus peaking while recording video (which i want to see on my next dslr no matter what (btw which cam beside sony nex could do that?)).

[Anvh]

frame-rate and monitor refresh-rate are two separate things

wiki
This is distinct from the measure of frame rate in that the refresh rate includes the repeated drawing of identical frames, while frame rate measures how often a video source can feed an entire frame of new data to a display.


Basically as long as the framerate is lower then the refreshrate you don't have a problem, so yes you can happily play 24fps on 60hz screen

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Last edited by Anvh; 08-26-2012 at 05:19 AM.

[paranoia23]

there is a problem if the refresh rate cant be divided through the frame rate

[Anvh]

there is a problem if the refresh rate cant be divided through the frame rate

Yes but not these days, the software or the hardware should handle that without a problem to prevent tearing.

[paranoia23]

exactly ... like my projector is switching to 48hz for 24p movies

[Nicolas_Rage]

I took my new K-5 out shooting yesterday and tested out it's video and can confirm that when recording with SR on, it definitely does not display the kind of jiggling I saw from the K-30 in that Gizmodo video, even at 300m. It stayed smooth and floaty, though with an occasional jump when I jerked the camera around too much (300m while holding a camera away from your face and trying to use one of your hands to zoom and focus will cause noticeable movement). I even tried to get some similar shots to the Gizmodo video and aimed at the Buffalo cityscape and I didn't see a trace of that jiggling. Unless the K-30 Gizmodo had was a defective model, this leads me to believe that the two cameras definitely use different technology for SR. Whether it means anything for still imagery other than the K-5 looking a little more stable in live view, I have no idea.

[paranoia23]

is there nobody with a k30 out to verify this ?!

[Montoya]

also the pro is that the K30 have manual control in video mode when the K-5 don't have... it's a real shame that the K-5 don't have this possibility
but i talk with a manager of Pentax technical firmware support and apparently a new firmware is on the way to update the K-5 with this possibility

Whoa whoa. Hold on there. Does anyone else have confirmation of a new firmware coming out? I had resigned myself to having to use the work around to "manually" set stuff for video. I don't need my hopes be risen again just have them smashed into little bits.

[kadajawi]

Yeah, the difference between h264 coming from a camera and h264 compressed by a good encoder and good settings is huge. For high quality h264 you need a lot of processing power.

So basically the K5 is better for video? Does it pull together pixels or will it only use some like the K-30? What is the maximum ISO? I think somewhere I read for the 30 it is 3200.

[Anvh]

Yeah, the difference between h264 coming from a camera and h264 compressed by a good encoder and good settings is huge. For high quality h264 you need a lot of processing power.

So basically the K5 is better for video? Does it pull together pixels or will it only use some like the K-30? What is the maximum ISO? I think somewhere I read for the 30 it is 3200.

Correct, K5 with mjpeg capture/save full frames, where as with h.264 only the changes between the frames is recorded to save space but it cost a lot of power to get it perfect.

K5 is therefore most likely better for editing since it capture more, it does pull the pixels together but the whole width of the sensor is used, don't know if that's the case with the K30?
No idea about the highest ISO of the K5 and video.

[kadajawi]

Pulling the pixels together (as I understand it) is a good thing. i.e. 4 pixels are used to result in 1 in the video, resulting in smoother, less noisy video than when only 1 out of 4 pixels is being used.

I have had the chance to try the K-30 and K-5 today. Image stabilization is not usable in the K-30. When you shake it a bit, the picture gets blurry. It stays where it should stay, but it blurs. And when you pan, you almost get a Star Trek effect. Lights turn into streaks, and then the movement starts. Quite irritating. Also you get a terribly "enhanced" rolling shutter effect. Without stabilization it's not bad, and bitrates are so much more manageable. It does seem to crop the picture, when I look through the viewfinder I see more than on the monitor when I switch to the video mode. Granted the difference isn't nearly as big as I was worried about, I'd guess at 28mm (um, 18mm) you'll get 30mm. No wonder it wasn't picked up by many reviewers.
The K-5 did perform much, much better. Biggest let down is IMHO the lack of 24p (though not that important to me, my other camera only shoots 29.97 fps so for editing reasons I'll have to shoot at that anyway), and the lack of a better codec. Ideally you'd be able to chose between MJPEG (when the highest quality and "editability" is needed), and h264/AVCHD for less demanding purposes.

Is there any downside that potential K-5 buyers should be aware of? Like not being able to shoot for more than a few minutes cause the camera overheats or gets damaged?

[Anvh]

You mean binning the pixels
No idea if it does that.

mjpeg support isn't great with all software and the camera does heat up after 10 to 14 minutes of filmi.

[ihasa]

I took my new K-5 out shooting yesterday and tested out it's video and can confirm that when recording with SR on, it definitely does not display the kind of jiggling I saw from the K-30 in that Gizmodo video, even at 300m. It stayed smooth and floaty, though with an occasional jump when I jerked the camera around too much (300m while holding a camera away from your face and trying to use one of your hands to zoom and focus will cause noticeable movement). I even tried to get some similar shots to the Gizmodo video and aimed at the Buffalo cityscape and I didn't see a trace of that jiggling. Unless the K-30 Gizmodo had was a defective model, this leads me to believe that the two cameras definitely use different technology for SR. Whether it means anything for still imagery other than the K-5 looking a little more stable in live view, I have no idea.

According to Imaging Resource the K30 uses the same video SR technique as the K-01. I have no idea why they did this, rather than continue using the mechanical SR as they did in previous DSLRs from the K7 onwards.

Although the Pentax K-30's incorporates a sensor shift-type image stabilization system, this is disabled during video recording, in favor of what Pentax calls 'Movie SR'; in essence, digital image stabilization. Unlike a mechanical system, this allows completely silent operation, but there's no such thing as a free lunch. The system works by creating the video feed from a 'window' of pixels in one particular location on the sensor, with the location of the window moved around the sensor as needed to correct for motion. For this system to function, you need to leave a band of "spare" pixels around the periphery of the sensor, and in the process, the K-30 effectively increases the effective focal length crop significantly. While for telephoto videos this may in fact be desirable, it means that if you want the widest possible field of view, you'll want to disable image stabilization.

Likely due to the manner in which it operates, the K-30's Movie SR sometimes induced a slight "wobbling" in captured videos, visible as a slight squashing / stretching along the vertical axis. This is distinct from the "jello" effect caused by rolling shutter, although the two effects can be present in a single clip, making the distortion even more pronounced. We also noted that as you reach the limits of the corrective area available by panning the sensor window, the K-30 shows "hiccups" in video playback where your subject moves significantly further than it should in a single frame. On the plus side, the system is very stable, able to correct reasonably well even for motion from walking.

Note that even if you disable Movie SR, you don't recoup the wide-angle capabilities. The crop is increased at all times when in movie mode.

Pentax K-30 Camera Video - Review

It's not all bad news though - as the Gizmodo clip shows at 0.55, the Movie SR is still pretty effective for wider angle shots where you at least make some effort to keep the camera steady (rather than deliberately try and induce wobble).