Change bitrate for Pentax video mode?

grispie · 05-05-2013, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Sagitta

I just took the K-30 for a test around the apartment using the SR to see how it fared - it seemed pretty darn stable to me. Then again, I was using the 10-20, so YMMV if you start going longer.

it is actually very stable!, even with a tele on it. but then (espec. at longer focal) jello effect starts kicking in seriously making an end to the party. just try handheld outside (not with the 10 - 20 please -

userage · 05-05-2013, 05:19 PM

Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs.

Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs.

grispie · 05-05-2013, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by userage

Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs.

Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs.

yes well, in the end, its true :-) & grading on it is indeed simply terrible.
thats why i set my mind on a sony A77....

altopiet · 05-06-2013, 12:35 AM

What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it

dragra · 05-06-2013, 12:52 AM

Originally posted by userage

Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs.

Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs.

Check those Robin Delafaite videos again, please. They are really heavily graded. I looked them at a 42" HDTV and couldn't see any artifacts. The truth is I didn't wear my magic sunglasses. Now go figure.

grispie · 05-06-2013, 01:00 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by altopiet

What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it

remember that having a bunch of great nice MF lenses compensates for the lesser IQ, at least for me.
And only being in videography for the 1st year, the K01 has already teached me a lot.

Personally, i'm not in a hurry to switch systems as videography is about so much more than just the IQ you get from a camera.

But you are right, there is a moment one needs to stop complaining and decide... my k01 will still be a great B-cam then.

hopsing · 05-06-2013, 01:04 AM

Are these artifacts not causes by compressing media during YT uploading? I think YT isn't a high end video platform like vimeo is.

dragra · 05-06-2013, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by altopiet

What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it

Some people do 90% of their time just testing the gear and the rest 10% time they take snapshots. Their main goal is to excel at the forums, they are not interested in practical application.

Some folks do 90% just shooting and 10% of their time they are making a test shoot when they need to know how a camera will behave under certain tricky light situation or environment.

I have even heard of some freaking folks who shoot 100% of their time. But I don't believe they exist, since they are not on the forums.

altopiet · 05-06-2013, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by dragra

I have even heard of some freaking folks who shoot 100% of their time. But I don't believe they exist, since they are not on the forums.

rodaballo · 05-06-2013, 02:35 AM

I agree that some artifacts can be observed (for instance, the sky). I think this is due to software and hopefully some nice person will hack the firmware and try to improve this. However, given the limitations of Pentax for video, sepaking generally, what can be seen in these videos is quite fine in my opinion. It shows that if you are really careful (if you don't pan, etc) you can obtain nice results with this camera.

userage · 05-06-2013, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by hopsing

Are these artifacts not causes by compressing media during YT uploading? I think YT isn't a high end video platform like vimeo is.

While you have a point, YT does not compress it that much. Would be nice if someone here could upload a video shot from their K30/K01, I would like to see what the DR is like on them.

Originally posted by dragra

Check those Robin Delafaite videos again, please. They are really heavily graded. I looked them at a 42" HDTV and couldn't see any artifacts. The truth is I didn't wear my magic sunglasses. Now go figure.

I didn't say you couldn't grade them, I said the K5 was better. Maybe you don't know what artifacts to look for, because the 2nd video is full of them..

You Tube

Heres a video sample from the K30, if you can't tell its video lacks detail and is processed badly, well then..

Quote:

I agree that some artifacts can be observed (for instance, the sky). I think this is due to software and hopefully some nice person will hack the firmware and try to improve this. However, given the limitations of Pentax for video, sepaking generally, what can be seen in these videos is quite fine in my opinion. It shows that if you are really careful (if you don't pan, etc) you can obtain nice results with this camera.

I believe someone was attempting to hack the K5 but they gave up on it and hacked a different camera. Of course the video mode is fine for most people, its just for people who buy DSLRs with video in mind, it doesn't cut it when there are much better options.

grispie · 05-06-2013, 09:51 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by userage

While you have a point, YT does not compress it that much. Would be nice if someone here could upload a video shot from their K30/K01, I would like to see what the DR is like on them.

Originally posted by userage

Par-Hasard compilatie sd.mp4 - LATEST - IMAGES

In this link you can see (and download) a video from K01. its a recording of a band performance/ lots of movement, different lenses being used. hardly any post. just added some contrast. it's SD though...

dragra · 05-06-2013, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by userage

Heres a video sample from the K30, if you can't tell its video lacks detail and is processed badly, well then..

The only thing that I have clearly seen is dirt or dust speckle right in the middle of your lens - otherwise your handheld pan shot was not particularly interesting or informative in any way. You have produced a remarkable proof that you have a plenty of leisure time to kill but unfortunately don't really know what to do with the fancy cameras or how to use them in a interesting or creative way.

In your effort you have made over 80 test videos with various cameras, but didn't manage to catch at least 5 seconds of something visually interesting or aesthetically pleasing! I suggest you get a tripod and a pan head for the start, then you can go and reshoot all tests. It will not be anything more informative or interesting, but that is least you can do: HD cameras need a tripod.

Here's a link to a book that might help a little.

dragra · 05-06-2013, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by grispie

Par-Hasard compilatie sd.mp4 - LATEST - IMAGES

In this link you can see (and download) a video from K01. its a recording of a band performance/ lots of movement, different lenses being used. hardly any post. just added some contrast. it's SD though...

grispie, thanks for the link! I liked your video, which is obviously a hommage to the band Par-Hasard

it's a good example what can be done with photographic equipment - it has a pleasing filmic look, very different from small sensor camcorders. Although the stage light is harsh K-01 has managed good DR, I could not see any artifacts in the smoke (there was plenty) and not in the background blur. Very good editing and camera work.

grispie · 05-06-2013, 12:56 PM

thks,
I am quite pleased with the outcome of the camera, very nice color out of cam and quite clean images.
the only thing that bothers me is lack of sharpness when the whole band is in picture (opening e.g.). i think the close ups itself are very good. probably also due to the glass.
there is a bit of highlight crushing, but then again, sunlight on the faces was very hard as well.

It's a promo-clip by the way. Bandmembers were quite happy with it.

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05-05-2013, 01:45 PM	#16
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by Sagitta I just took the K-30 for a test around the apartment using the SR to see how it fared - it seemed pretty darn stable to me. Then again, I was using the 10-20, so YMMV if you start going longer. it is actually very stable!, even with a tele on it. but then (espec. at longer focal) jello effect starts kicking in seriously making an end to the party. just try handheld outside (not with the 10 - 20 please -

05-05-2013, 05:19 PM	#17
userage Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 198	Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs. Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs.

05-05-2013, 11:18 PM	#18
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by userage Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs. Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs. yes well, in the end, its true :-) & grading on it is indeed simply terrible. thats why i set my mind on a sony A77....

05-06-2013, 12:35 AM	#19
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it

05-06-2013, 12:52 AM	#20
dragra Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana Photos: Albums Posts: 238	Originally posted by userage Sorry but the K01/K30 videos look awful... They are so heavily compressed, its hard for me not to look at artifacts. The codec it uses is terribly implemented and the K5's one wins all round on quality. The K30 footage must be really terrible to grade, whereas I know the K5's is one of the best out of the DSLRs. Also, Pentax can increase the bit rate but they probably don't give a s*t because the K5 is old and they will probably think its not worth their while. K5 currently records MJPEG at around 80-100mbps, which provides for good quality, I think if they done anything they should improve DR in video mode. While the chroma information from the footage is good the luminance is not great although on par with the other DSLRs. Check those Robin Delafaite videos again, please. They are really heavily graded. I looked them at a 42" HDTV and couldn't see any artifacts. The truth is I didn't wear my magic sunglasses. Now go figure.

05-06-2013, 01:00 AM - 1 Like	#21
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by altopiet What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it remember that having a bunch of great nice MF lenses compensates for the lesser IQ, at least for me. And only being in videography for the 1st year, the K01 has already teached me a lot. Personally, i'm not in a hurry to switch systems as videography is about so much more than just the IQ you get from a camera. But you are right, there is a moment one needs to stop complaining and decide... my k01 will still be a great B-cam then.

05-06-2013, 01:04 AM	#22
hopsing Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 49	Are these artifacts not causes by compressing media during YT uploading? I think YT isn't a high end video platform like vimeo is.

05-06-2013, 01:16 AM	#23
dragra Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana Photos: Albums Posts: 238	Originally posted by altopiet What I don't get is why people keep on griping about how bad Pentax video is, but still use the system. It is clearly not the best system for that purpose, and if something bothered me so much, I would've look for and moved to another system a long time ago....If you think Pentax is heading the wrong way with their video, email them and let them know, and then let your feet do the talking...Life is short, don't let something like this keep you from enjoying it Some people do 90% of their time just testing the gear and the rest 10% time they take snapshots. Their main goal is to excel at the forums, they are not interested in practical application. Some folks do 90% just shooting and 10% of their time they are making a test shoot when they need to know how a camera will behave under certain tricky light situation or environment. I have even heard of some freaking folks who shoot 100% of their time. But I don't believe they exist, since they are not on the forums.

05-06-2013, 01:21 AM	#24
altopiet Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: The Gem of the Karoo, South Africa Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,307	Originally posted by dragra I have even heard of some freaking folks who shoot 100% of their time. But I don't believe they exist, since they are not on the forums.

05-06-2013, 02:35 AM	#25
rodaballo Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 158	I agree that some artifacts can be observed (for instance, the sky). I think this is due to software and hopefully some nice person will hack the firmware and try to improve this. However, given the limitations of Pentax for video, sepaking generally, what can be seen in these videos is quite fine in my opinion. It shows that if you are really careful (if you don't pan, etc) you can obtain nice results with this camera.

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05-06-2013, 09:51 AM - 1 Like	#27
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	Originally posted by userage While you have a point, YT does not compress it that much. Would be nice if someone here could upload a video shot from their K30/K01, I would like to see what the DR is like on them. Originally posted by userage Par-Hasard compilatie sd.mp4 - LATEST - IMAGES In this link you can see (and download) a video from K01. its a recording of a band performance/ lots of movement, different lenses being used. hardly any post. just added some contrast. it's SD though...

05-06-2013, 10:50 AM	#28
dragra Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana Photos: Albums Posts: 238	Originally posted by userage Heres a video sample from the K30, if you can't tell its video lacks detail and is processed badly, well then.. The only thing that I have clearly seen is dirt or dust speckle right in the middle of your lens - otherwise your handheld pan shot was not particularly interesting or informative in any way. You have produced a remarkable proof that you have a plenty of leisure time to kill but unfortunately don't really know what to do with the fancy cameras or how to use them in a interesting or creative way. In your effort you have made over 80 test videos with various cameras, but didn't manage to catch at least 5 seconds of something visually interesting or aesthetically pleasing! I suggest you get a tripod and a pan head for the start, then you can go and reshoot all tests. It will not be anything more informative or interesting, but that is least you can do: HD cameras need a tripod. Here's a link to a book that might help a little.

05-06-2013, 11:09 AM	#29
dragra Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ljubljana Photos: Albums Posts: 238	Originally posted by grispie Par-Hasard compilatie sd.mp4 - LATEST - IMAGES In this link you can see (and download) a video from K01. its a recording of a band performance/ lots of movement, different lenses being used. hardly any post. just added some contrast. it's SD though... grispie, thanks for the link! I liked your video, which is obviously a hommage to the band Par-Hasard it's a good example what can be done with photographic equipment - it has a pleasing filmic look, very different from small sensor camcorders. Although the stage light is harsh K-01 has managed good DR, I could not see any artifacts in the smoke (there was plenty) and not in the background blur. Very good editing and camera work.

05-06-2013, 12:56 PM	#30
grispie Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 1,199	thks, I am quite pleased with the outcome of the camera, very nice color out of cam and quite clean images. the only thing that bothers me is lack of sharpness when the whole band is in picture (opening e.g.). i think the close ups itself are very good. probably also due to the glass. there is a bit of highlight crushing, but then again, sunlight on the faces was very hard as well. It's a promo-clip by the way. Bandmembers were quite happy with it.