[Steve.Ledger]

Guess not.
If it's anything like the K-01 and Q, the Movie SR works even when stationary causing some detail to distort/wiggle.
It shows up really bad with cat fur and similar detail.
Best left off entirely for Video.

[richandfleur]

I thought I'd add to this as I just stumbled upon this video today.


It's a K-30, but as I understand it, the 'Movie SR' video stabilisation approach on this is the same as on the newer K3?


Take at look at the top of the wooden archway at around 17 seconds into the video. It's wobbling and warping all over the place and this mimics what I've experienced on the K-30 myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GJwC-3vvEqc#t=17


I'm unsure as to whether the 'Movie SR' is fully software based though, and think it may be a combo?
Only reason I say that is I was videoing the moon with some clouds passing in front of it, quite low light and long telephoto lens stuff.
When it got really dark the image was jumping all over the place as the image stabilisation tried to do its thing, BUT the camera was making a noise akin to mechanical stabilisation.


It makes me wonder if the usual movement sensors are not used during video, and the image stabilisation software makes the call on when to move them perhaps?
Can't say without a lot more testing, but the camera did make quite a noise even though it was stationary at all times on a tripod.
When the clouds past and the moon was bright again it all settled back down.
One could argue it should have been off on a tripod anyway, but regardless I do think I observed mechanical movement during video recording.

[Steve.Ledger]

Yeh, I'd defo' argue with you about Movie SR when on a tripod

Keep testing though, you could be onto something.

[Giklab]

Was the SR noise a "humming" or really lout clicking/knocking around?

[richandfleur]

Was the SR noise a "humming" or really lout clicking/knocking around?

It was a few months back, but from memory it was more if a knocking/clicking sound and the moon started shaking position on the screen, like I was knocking the tripod - but I wasn't.

---------- Post added 06-25-14 at 06:38 PM ----------

It was a few months back, but from memory it was more if a knocking/clicking sound and the moon started shaking position on the screen, like I was knocking the tripod - but I wasn't.

I don't recall what mode I
was recording the video in either. Maybe it was Av mode and the camera was adjusting the lens aperture in the diminishing light for example?

[kadajawi]

Wait, so you say you had the camera on a tripod, and the moon was moving around, together with some sounds? Perhaps that was a bug? I'd be really surprised if they had went through the effort to do something so weird, when they couldn't even be bothered to activate the sensor based SR they have in LiveView (!) during video recording.

Btw., maybe you can try if you get considerable heating up of the camera (like hot pixels) when you keep it in LiveView for a longer time (while shaking the camera), versus video mode. Like, when driving keep the camera in LiveView, so there is movement it has to correct all the time.

Boy, it would sure help if Pentaxforums would actually ASK Pentax about video, especially about why SR was deactivated.

[PiDicus Rex]

Do a simple test if you need.

Turn off the AA simulation.

Turn off the SR in Stills/Photo modes.
Put the camera body up next to your head with it resting firmly against your ear..
Wiggle your head and the camera as one.
You should only hear the Iris shifting.

Go in to the menus and select the non-power-saving mode for SR in stills, so it works all the time.
Put the camera body back up next to your head with it resting firmly against your ear..
Wiggle the camera - you will hear the sensor move.
( You may have to half press the shutter release if you're not using Live View )

Now you know what the SR sounds like when it moves the sensor.

Switch over to video recording.
Make sure Video SR is On
Put the camera next to your head and wiggle both about.
Can you hear the sensor move?
No? -> Video SR is Software based.
Yes? -> Video SR is Mechanical based Sensor Shift.

I'm betting you won't hear the sensor shifting in video if you have a K3, K-01, K50 or K30.

K5 owners can report back what they hear.

[kadajawi]

Yup, I can hear and feel my sensor shift with the K-5.

I'm mostly wondering if the heat argument makes sense. I know, the K-3 doesn't overheat like the K-5. But is that really because of the SR, or is it just an improved sensor? I guess one day I'll have to try that myself, but IIRC I didn't move my camera when I was trying to get it to overheat, and it still overheated just fine (didn't deactivate SR though).

[Giklab]

I'm pretty sure the K-3 has digital stabilization because of the noise the mechanical SR makes. My K-5 II sounds like a tiny sledgehammer when it steadies after zooming a lens. I doubt it has anything to do with overheating.

[kadajawi]

If it's not overheating, what reason does Pentax have for not activating mechanical SR in the K-3? Noise? I can hardly hear it, and it often times doesn't matter. Many don't use the in camera audio, or can, if necessary, avoid it, by using external gear. And those who do want to use it may still find the quality acceptable (the noise of the SR is not that bad, I'm more worried about the not so good microphone!).

[Giklab]

Many don't use the in camera audio, or can, if necessary, avoid it, by using external gear.

Many more DO use in-camera audio. Many people also use external stabilization for video, so why not disable SR anyway?

[richandfleur]

I'll do some listening tests later today.
In my case this only came into play under a 300mm zoom lens and low light conditions confusing the camera.
That combination yielded a behaviour that got me thinking later on, so I'll look to recreate and test further at some stage.

Many more DO use in-camera audio. Many people also use external stabilization for video, so why not disable SR anyway?

In my opinion, why not give the user the choice?!
Use mechanical, use software based, heck use both or none. The current 'solution' presented simply does not work particularly well at all. Someone at Pentax needs to address that. The strange warping artefacts caused by 'Movie SR' being on are totally unacceptable and are not correctable in post.


Presently you can turn Movie SR off, but frankly that negates the benefit of mechanical stabilisation that has worked acceptably well in the K-5 series for years.

[Steve.Ledger]

Presently you can turn Movie SR off, but frankly that negates the benefit of mechanical stabilisation that has worked acceptably well in the K-5 series for years.

And K-7 of course

[kadajawi]

Many more DO use in-camera audio. Many people also use external stabilization for video, so why not disable SR anyway?

External stabilization is heavy and expensive.


Yes, people use in-camera audio. But I'd argue that the microphone and electronics in the K-5 at least is so bad that it doesn't really matter if you hear any noise from the SR system. I doubt the K-3 improves much upon it. Someone who is satisfied with the built in microphone will not mind the SR. I mean, I do use the built in microphone because I haven't found anything external that suits my needs and budget, but I don't have any high expectations of it. Lots of wind noise, lots of other noise, crackling sounds at loud places (or if there is a certain frequency it seems...), ...


Also, if I am willing to use external stabilization, why would I buy Pentax? Panasonic and Canon are way superior to Pentax, and even Nikon is better (and cheaper). The option of mechanical SR is a selling point, a (sort of) unique advantage. Yes, Olympus has it, and it's better there, but they'll offer all frame rates you could ever want... as long as all you want is 30 fps.


Btw., the way the K-3 does it it also means the frame is cropped, and it is always cropped, even when you have deactivated MovieSR. To be honest I'd rather have the K-3 not even offer MovieSR if that means it won't crop the frame, because MovieSR is actively destroying whatever you shoot.


The K-5 is not a camera for beginners, so Pentax doesn't have to treat it's users as idiots. I want many different SR options. No SR no crop, no SR with crop, IBIS (in built image stabilization) no crop, IBIS with crop, MovieSR with crop, IBIS + MovieSR with crop (IBIS would balance out the fast movements, MovieSR the slow ones, and it can slowly move the sensor back to the center if necessary, to basically extend the range that the system can balance out). Overlay on the screen to show sensor position. Utilize some of the buttons that aren't used while recording to lock the position (the sensor will try it's best to hold the position), to change settings (such as telling the camera that the next movement is a pan), to deactivate SR for a moment. Different levels of IBIS strength and behaviour.


Same with the video encoder. Let me chose h264 (at different bitrates) AND MJPEG (different bitrates too). And a white balance lock that stays (even when you off the camera) until you tell it it's free to shift again, and it has to work while recording. Give overlays with common movie aspect ratios. Punch in zoom taking a crop out of the sensor immediately, even while recording. Histograms etc. meant for video use. A cinema preset. etc.


There is simply no need to dumb down the camera, there is always the possibility of an advanced options setting that will open up the UI. Basically like the green mode, just in reverse, and set in the menu.

[PiDicus Rex]

Da, "User Choice" for type of SR and type of CoDec would be a real boon to Cinematic uses of the cameras.

Sure, people will argue that h.264 is newer and better then Mjpeg, and it is a better 'delivery' codec for the internet,.. but Mjpeg is superior when it comes to scrubbing back and forth of the timeline, and when doing Multi-Camera edits, as it uses less system resources, because of the lower compression and higher data-rate.

It would be fantastic on all of our cameras, if we were able to choose which CoDec to record in - we could save space with h.264 when we wanted, or get finely detailed vision at higher data rates when we need it.

I too would like turning off SR to mean the cropping was disabled.