Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
04-19-2014, 01:57 AM   #1
Senior Member
Danas_Anis's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2013
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 196
645z video capability got attention at Redshark

Looks like Pentax is hitting a lot of audience with 645Z
not surprisingly its video capability got some attention too.

I just wish Ricoh Pentax made it right this time. Because it might lead to more new customers

RedShark News - Does Medium Format video make sense?

Well anyway, glad for Ricoh Petnax on introducing such beauty as 645z because it does seem to hit the right spot.

I wonder what is coming next, hopefully one more exciting and attention getting DSLR, maybe a new k-02 mirror-less ?

04-19-2014, 06:33 AM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Edmonton, Alberta Canada
Posts: 612
I wouldn't expect the 645Z video to be any better than the K3 video which isn't class leading.

Dale
05-07-2014, 05:24 PM   #3
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,695
QuoteOriginally posted by DDoram Quote
I wouldn't expect the 645Z video to be any better than the K3 video which isn't class leading.

Dale
Yes Pentax have good hardware but are consistently making dumb decisions when implementing the video mode.

items such as:
  • Focus peaking during video recording
  • Providing 'Raw' hdmi output for those wanting to capture on external devices
  • Shutter noise at the start and end of clips, despite being in live view mode.
  • Horrible jello artifacts from 'movie SR' which may or may not utilise the physical shake reduction system in video mode.
  • Much lower bit rates out of the box than other companies
  • Inability to specify higher quality video file formats, (with less compression), with a focus on smaller file size over image quality.
  • etc
The vast majority of which are firmware/software decisions that could be rectified, now.

Last edited by richandfleur; 05-12-2014 at 11:57 AM.
05-12-2014, 08:19 AM   #4
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,277
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
The vast majority of which are firmware/software decisions that could be rectified, now.
Seconded.!

05-12-2014, 08:39 AM   #5
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 10,137
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Horrible jello artifacts from 'movie SR' which may or may not utilise the physical shake reduction system in video mode.
that is actually a CMOS sensor issue - with their rolling shutters it is impossible to eliminate, until they devise a practical way of implementing global shutters which give superior results when used for video footage.
05-12-2014, 11:57 AM   #6
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,695
QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
that is actually a CMOS sensor issue - with their rolling shutters it is impossible to eliminate, until they devise a practical way of implementing global shutters which give superior results when used for video footage.
I know what you are referring to, but the implementation on the K-30 (and presumably K3?) product lines is something else, far above the inherent rolling shutter issue.


The K-5 for instance doesn't suffer from this excessive warping and has a CMOS sensor also. Pentax have definitely introduced this issue through their implementation of a software stabilisation attempt, and I'd expect the 645Z to have the same issues if they are applying their standard 'Movie SR' video approach to that also.
05-12-2014, 03:41 PM   #7
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Digitalis's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Adelaide.
Posts: 10,137
QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
'd expect the 645Z to have the same issues if they are applying their standard 'Movie SR' video approach to that also.
I doubt it - there is already enough processor overhead with using a high resolution MF sensor for video I don't think they would try anything that stupid.
05-14-2014, 07:08 AM   #8
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,277
Rolling Shutter alone just leads to skew effects when panning or object move through the frame.
The 'Jello', where different parts of the frame are warping in different directions is what the SR causes.

The skew can be countered with higher frame rates to some extent, but never completely removed, the Jello is removed by turning the SR off.

05-19-2014, 03:19 PM   #9
osv
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: So Cal
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,080
QuoteOriginally posted by Danas_Anis Quote
Looks like Pentax is hitting a lot of audience with 645Z
not surprisingly its video capability got some attention too.

I just wish Ricoh Pentax made it right this time. Because it might lead to more new customers

RedShark News - Does Medium Format video make sense?
that link is a waste of bandwidth... remind me to never go to redsharknews.com again

here is what is supposed to be the actual video specs, if they are true, pentax has dropped the ball again, in a big way:

"Update: Based on Dan Chung’s clarifications, the Pentax 645Z will not have the medium format aesthetic:

Q: Could you clarify what portion of the sensor is used for HD video? Is it the full width of the sensor with the top and bottom cropped off?
A: Its not the full width. 10% area is cropped off from each right, left, top, and bottom of sensor.

Q: Can you tell me what bit rates the video uses and clarify exactly which types of compression are used?
A: Bit rates: VBR 21Mbps, Movie compression: H.264, Sound compression: 48kHz 16bit linear PCM

Q: Is there the ability for the user to apply a flat or log picture profile to the video instead of a standard gamma? is there a user definable gamma setting at all?
A: No. Users can’t apply a flat or log picture profile to the video. There is no gamma setting for 645Z.

Q: Does the camera output a ‘clean’ HDMI signal in video mode that can be recorded using an external recorder in a similar way to the Canon 5D mkIII or Sony a7S?
A: No, it can’t."

The Pentax 645Z: The First Medium Format Camera to Shoot Video | wolfcrow
05-19-2014, 05:25 PM   #10
Pentaxian
richandfleur's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,695
QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the actual video specs, if they are true, pentax has dropped the ball again, in a big way
This is what I was alluding to earlier, and it's not a 645z specific issue.

Pentax is implementing video in a way that assumes a lot about how users want to use this feature (such as prioritising smaller file sizes over video quality etc).
They have such good hardware but are really missing out on the opportunity to pick up some market share by making the video a bit more fully featured and user adjustable.

The bulk of the decisions are software related, so could be addressed by firmware update, improving some things, and opening more user adjust-ability to others (such as allowing focus peaking during recording etc).
The implementation of the 'Movie SR' is nauseatingly warpy, and again whilst not a 645Z specific issue, it's indicative of the assumptions and lack of testing that is common throughout most modern Pentax video attempts.

I opted for Pentax from the outset as I valued stills image quality over video capability, but I'm frustrated that the same hardware can't be better utilised for quality video work as well.
Video is clearly a side add on 'bonus' feature for Pentax which is showing them to be behind the times on this.
05-19-2014, 09:15 PM   #11
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,277
Boo Hiss to those interview answers - if that is how they want to do video on an MF body, they shouldn't have made it video capable at all.
It also doesn't bode well for them tweaking the firmware to do the video output properly, be it K-01, K3 or 645z.

A sensor that big, cropped down to a pixel-for-pixel true 4K, would make for amazing video images (same way the GH4 does 4K).
05-23-2014, 05:59 PM   #12
Pentaxian




Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Far North Qld
Posts: 3,301
It does seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot regarding video capabilities.
I'm not heavily invested in Pentax lenses but I do love Pentax build quality and stills, so I could move to another system at some stage (Sony?)
Thing is, I do love to shoot small video clips and while only for personal use it's annoying that the VIQ isn't what it actually could be. No live HDMI out or where there is, no clean HDMI out really feels like they have their head in the sand. Something isn't getting through to the decision makers at Pentax/Ricoh.
05-23-2014, 08:01 PM   #13
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,277
Maybe I should apply for a job at Ricoh, see if I can be the "VP of Video Development Technologies"
05-23-2014, 09:47 PM   #14
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: California
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,356
QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Maybe I should apply for a job at Ricoh, see if I can be the "VP of Video Development Technologies"
Yes, or you could mail them any 5-year old Canon DSLR, have them look at the superior video implimentation, and say "do something at least as well as this."
05-23-2014, 11:11 PM - 1 Like   #15
Junior Member




Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 44
QuoteOriginally posted by fuent104 Quote
Yes, or you could mail them any 5-year old Canon DSLR, have them look at the superior video implimentation, and say "do something at least as well as this."
Couldn't agree more. As someone who has a foot in both camps (equal interest and requirement for stills & video), it amazes me that this imbalance persists across all Pentax cameras. For a niche camera manufacturer like Pentax it just feels like a missed opportunity. Especially with the 645Z. At that price point surely they could absorb the cost of chucking a video co-processor in there to crunch all that medium format goodness, no?

I'd feel more hopeful about the future for Pentax video if it were that they had just a single model in the line-up that demonstrated they could implement pro - or near-pro - level video (ProRes/DNxHD/CinemaDNG, 10-bit, <50Mbps, 48khz audio). Ditch the entry-level K500 and the penny-pinching feature removal approach therein, and give us a K-02 with an articulated, hi-res screen, a sensor that favours video (a la Sony A7S), shutter angles that are an exact 180 to the available frame-rates (mad that this isn't already available), waveform monitoring in live view (scopes and histograms), audio meters, a decent codec at a sensible bit-rate, a huge buffer and fast SD card interface. Forget everything else. Honestly, for me they could rip out the AF module completely, along with the OVF/EVF, art filters and whatever else.

I know he would say otherwise, and would be sensible in anchoring our hopes to reasonable expectations, but perhaps the best chance we have is in Shodan's emerging PHDK firmware boot-loader for the K-30. While I'm sure he'd say that any practical, reliable applications are still a long way off, I can't help but think that a Magic Lantern style firmware for Pentax might just give Ricoh pause for thought and convince them to review their approach to video (which at the moment just seems to be to make available whatever basic level functionality comes bundled onto the latest Fujitsu Millbeaut processor).

</RANT>

:-)
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645z, attention, capability, hdslr, pentax, ricoh, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
645z is here i83N Pentax News and Rumors 35 04-15-2014 07:55 AM
645Z with HD video? derekkite Pentax News and Rumors 20 04-12-2014 05:03 AM
Black & White Standing at Attention Bob Harris Post Your Photos! 14 01-28-2013 11:17 PM
First time the video capability of the 5d Mk II really made me think... pingflood General Talk 3 12-03-2008 04:41 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:31 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top