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07-09-2014, 10:52 AM - 2 Likes   #1
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The 'Video' wishlist.

I'm putting this here on the off chance that the Engineers at Ricoh/Pentax read our feedback here on the Pentax Forums

A wishlist of the 'perfect' features needed to turn our favorite brands cameras in to unbeatable High Definition film-making tools.

1. User selectable CoDec and data-rates - Mjpeg, h.264, and Compressed CinemaDNG Raw.
2. True 'clean feed' HDMI output during recording - at 1080 lines, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 colour sub-sampling.
3. No cropping of Sensor when SR is off.
4. Audio Meters.
5. Focus Peaking during recording.
6. User selectable SR method - Sensor Shift or Software.
7. User selectable enabling of audio output in record mode via AV output (for cameras with no headphone output)
8. Constant AF.

Subset of "1." - User selectable 'Full Dynamic Range' or 'Rec709 range'

Who would like to discuss other features they absolutely must have, or features they absolutely don't want?
( I'd love 4K in the HMDI, but don't need it,..)

Edit:
9. More shutter speeds - 48, 96 and 192 for when recording in 24fps, 60, 120 and 240 for when recording in 30fps.
10 More user selectable ISO speeds - 60, 80, 120, 240, 480, 640, 960 - the speeds the cameras already have available in Auto ISO (you have to watch them cycle while recording...)


Last edited by PiDicus Rex; 07-09-2014 at 10:45 PM.
07-09-2014, 01:56 PM - 2 Likes   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
......... or features they absolutely don't want?
Simple.....I don't want the poor results the current Pentax implementation of video gives.
Anything which improves this is welcomed.
07-09-2014, 03:25 PM - 1 Like   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote

1. User selectable CoDec and data-rates - Mjpeg, h.264, and Compressed CinemaDNG Raw.
2. True 'clean feed' HDMI output during recording - at 1080 lines, 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 colour sub-sampling.
3. No cropping of Sensor when SR is off.
4. Audio Meters.
5. Focus Peaking during recording.
6. User selectable SR method - Sensor Shift or Software.
7. User selectable enabling of audio output in record mode via AV output (for cameras with no headphone output)
8. Constant AF.

Subset of "1." - User selectable 'Full Dynamic Range' or 'Rec709 range'


Who would like to discuss other features they absolutely must have, or features they absolutely don't want?
( I'd love 4K in the HMDI, but don't need it,..)
Agree with most of this.
I'd prioritise #6 (which kinda includes #3 anyway), #5, #1 and #4 for me personally to start with, coming from a K-30 standpoint.
#2 is actually very important for the acceptance of Pentax in the video community.
#8 is something I thought I wanted, but my style of video work is actually very much manual focus. That said, there are times when Autofocus would be helpful, and they made such a big deal about the new K-3's tracking ability, only to not include it in any way during video work?! Think a bride walking down the aisle towards a camera, all in a shallow depth of field. Automatic focus and tracking does have a place in video too.

Thoughts to add / support your comments would simply be:

Recording bitrates and formats.
Pentax appears to have prioritised small video file sizes over image quality, which it's move to a more compressed codec and the lower recording bitrates within this.
This hurts the brand that regularly tops the image quality comparison reviews for stills.

If user adjustable data rates are tricky and costly to implement, then offer 3 more sensible quality ranges.
ie low, medium and high, but which correspond to bitrate values approximately double what is currently offered.
High should be considered the best video image quality the camera is capable of reliably maintaining, and is at the shooters risk as to large file sizes etc.

The bit rate alone does not compare equally across codec formats, so that's not the whole story.
Frankly I'd prefer a less compressed video format option, where the user accepts the larger file size, but benefits from the lower compression overall.
RAW would be awesome, for all the same reasons as stills.

(Maybe I'm wrong on this but who is going to use a DSLR to record VGA 640 x 480 content?
A$100 point and shoot could do this now already, and higher res video could be downscaled in post production if required for web content use etc)


4k
4k resolution video is going to come eventually, but right now it's a nice to have and a marketing feature only.
Pentax have already tried this by saying the K-3 can record 4k, which was laughed at by the industry because it's time-lapse style short video only.
At this level of delivery putting 4k on the advertising brief has probably hurt Pentax more than it's helped.
Even dedicated video focussed units such as Sony's new A7s appear to only offer 4k via an external recorder, so frankly I'd leave this until Pentax can walk first.


Shake Reduction
It is simply imperative that Pentax sort this out.
Pentax has long traded on it's ability to stabilise any lens mounted to it, but now others are doing the exact same thing, and in some cases doing it better.
Both Panasonic and Olympus offer 5axis stabilisation now (Panasonic FZ1000 offers 5 axis, 100fps and 4k recording in a bridge style camera for instance).

The current offering is unacceptable, is damaging the brand, undermining a strong marketing component, and actually plain doesn't work in a lot of cases.
More crucially it's not able to be corrected in post production either, as it actually warps the image in different ways throughout the clip.

Cropping, even when the electronic shake reduction 'Movie SR' is turned off is a real slap in the face and should be fixed.
This is a fault, ie it's actually broken really in it's current configuration.


Audio Level Indication
This doesn't seem immediately obvious, but for those with cameras without headphone outputs this is quite important.
Presently we're presented with a scale of 5 (?) volume options in the menus, but one has to guess at how loud their environment is, and what level this sensibly aligns with.
It's not until you are back at a computer that you find out if your audio has been captured at a level that makes it audible if quiet, or has not clipped if it's loud.
An audio levels histogram type display would be ideal, or a simple volume bar/column meter would suffice, much like the internal spirit level is displayed in live view for instance.


Focus Peaking
Why, why, why isn't there a user selectable option to enable this during video recording?
Surely this could be rolled out tomorrow via a firmware update.
Presumably the concern is processing power, but I'd like to know if it's possible at least.


Other brands have shown Focus Peaking to essentially be a type of video filter in essence, like the 'High Contrast' video filter.
There are concerns about dropped frames when these are used, so that may be the issue with this.



Which brings me to my big point really.
Is anyone listening?
Is anyone able to route these concerns directly to the developers rather than the PR wall?

Can Pentax please consider a Video Capability Enhancement specific firmware update?

Much of what has been discussed above is software choices only. The hardware is all there, it's just not being utilised to anywhere near it's full potential.
Pentax have a lot of work to do to simply return to the level they were at previously with the K-5 series.

I personally would love to see Pentax feature in popular DSLR videography for more than just the use of legacy lenses from 30+ years ago!
Whilst the above probably reads as a lot of moaning, I believe this hardware could be a real winner for those looking to get a very capable product for both stills work AND video, as presently I don't see any one product really delivering on this.

Last edited by richandfleur; 07-09-2014 at 04:11 PM.
07-09-2014, 07:45 PM   #4
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07-09-2014, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #5
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Richard :
Your thoughts on 4K pretty much mirror my own, which is why I'd rather see HD improved upon first.
Enabling a K3 or 645z to output 4K to an external recorder, like the Sony A7s does, in my opinion that would be better and easier then trying to implement onboard.
But, beyond filming for cinema release, 4K is just not necessary.
I expect to see the GH4 replacing the 5D3 as many cinematographers favorite 'crashcam'.

I should have been clearer on 'user selectable' data rates - three setting for each of h.264 and Mjpeg is enough, with the current data rate being the middle or low setting - 21mbits is fine for some things, but 45mbits in h.264, and 100mbits in Mjpeg, would both be amazing, and are well within the capabilities of the class10 SD cards.


QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Much of what has been discussed above is software choices only. The hardware is all there, it's just not being utilised to anywhere near it's full potential. Pentax have a lot of work to do to simply return to the level they were at previously with the K-5 series.
That's pretty much the whole point right there - Pentax Ricoh have pretty much proved all the features can work, they just don't have them all in one body.
K3 and K-01 would be ideal for this, and a 'video-only' firmware for the K-01, with the IQ of the stills, would turn the K-01 in to the must-have camera.
07-09-2014, 11:02 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
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07-09-2014, 11:11 PM   #7
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Click the blue "Watch on Vimeo" button in the middle of the box. Hopefully that works for you.

07-09-2014, 11:26 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by richandfleur Quote
Click the blue "Watch on Vimeo" button in the middle of the box. Hopefully that works for you.
Well of course the manuals say that SR should be off when shooting video on a tripod and I agree. A fluid head means you intend on panning and tilting for which SR isn't of any use anyway, but all the same this example of Movie SR is utterly disgraceful. Software based SR is simply not intelligent enough to be used in any camera body let alone an $8k one..
07-10-2014, 12:12 AM   #9
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Yep, that's a shocker all right.
Comes from the software's vector processing generating errors from objects moving in multiple directions in the frame.
The Sensor Shift method is done from accelerometers, so would ignore all of the activity in the video content and just deal with the cameras motion, same as the in-lens method.
07-10-2014, 12:50 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Yep, that's a shocker all right.
Comes from the software's vector processing generating errors from objects moving in multiple directions in the frame.
The Sensor Shift method is done from accelerometers, so would ignore all of the activity in the video content and just deal with the cameras motion, same as the in-lens method.

Yeah was just about to post the same thing. Agreed about the tripod, but even on a tripod, the in camera shake reduction wouldn't necessarily have a problem with that speed of pan.
The case shown in this video is entirely software shake reduction generated.


When you see how many options there are for the warp stabiliser effect in Adobe Premiere, and how long it takes even on a grunty computer, you realise that software shake reduction on the fly is always going to be quite an ask. Sony's action cam does it reasonably well, but that's a wide angle shot, which is less prone to the shaking being obvious anyway.


Just thinking about it, if the stabilisation was done mechanically then presumably the loading on the processor would be less, in which case focus peaking or higher bit rates etc would be a possible substitute
07-10-2014, 06:59 AM   #11
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eh-hemm,.. that's a Tilt, not a Pan,...

And yes, it would free up processor capacity for other processing.
Realistically, I think we'd all be happy if someone could cut n paste the coding from the K5IIs Sensor Shift SR in to the firmware of the K-01 and K3.
07-10-2014, 11:55 AM - 1 Like   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
eh-hemm,.. that's a Tilt, not a Pan,...
Yep, got me there


Apologies for the quick response
07-12-2014, 09:44 AM - 1 Like   #13
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The priority of small file-size over better standards is not desirable for quality video. Forget 4K until we have mechanical shake reduction, a better codec and bitrates, as well as sensors that won't overheat.
07-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by maleek Quote
The priority of small file-size over better standards is not desirable for quality video.
Correct. Small file sizes are never desirable over quality, ever.
We can reduce file sizes in post to suit our applications when and where needed.

Of course, it might be argued that if you are shooting a clip with your K-3 which you are transferring via the FLU card to your iThing for posting on Farcebook then small and highly compressed files would be preferable?
Perhaps their research showed more people wanting to do this than people with a more professional attitude for using DSLR for video?
07-12-2014, 05:32 PM   #15
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PRIC can't possibly care about video performance. I just can't believe that they simultaneously care about it and are so utterly inept at implementing it.

I can't accept that guys working in their apartment bedrooms working in their spare time for free (Magic Lantern), working with Canon dslrs from 2008, are more capable of delivering a quality user interface product than PRIC. The only logical conclusion is that they just don't care to do it. Even though they named their one imaging engine Prime-M.
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